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GS Entry level too low?

uptimistikuptimistik VenezuelaPosts: 3,598Member, Sous Chef, PRO
edited 5:13PM in Miscellaneous
I wonder this sometimes, and would like to hear your opinions. Yes it allows persons with no programming experience to build games, but, is that always a good thing?

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Comments

  • Metronome49Metronome49 Posts: 297Member
    @uptimistik

    A lot of crap comes out thanks to GameSalad... but oh well. I can make my stuff that WON'T be crap... for free.
  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    On one hand it's perfect because I don't have the time to learn how to code and I can better concentrate on game logic, design and graphics.

    On the other hand there are way too many that throw a couple of Word created graphics in a couple of actors and call it a game. That's totally not cool.

    So in the end it's a hard call, but probably the entry level is really too low even more now that it's free.

    ________________________________
    【ツ】iPhone Icon Pack 【ツ】 - 【ツ】Graphic Pack【ツ】
    Free GS demo: High score simple and advanced; Game Center; App Rating System
  • JPickardJPickard Posts: 477Member
    What I think, as a newbie:

    continue to give the app for free. But disable the ability to publish games to iTunes.
    Have a second tier of 50 bucks for full non-pro.
    Charge less for Pro, say 200 bucks, the difference for GS will be made up with 50 buck purchases, and allows more 50 buck payers who worked hard and paid $ to go Pro. Meanwhile keeping the riffraff out, while still allowing the newbies to play with the software and become unriffraffed by paying their dues and a few bucks.

    Just a thought.
  • uptimistikuptimistik VenezuelaPosts: 3,598Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    Hmm, what about a system where a game has to be published to the web first and voted on. You then need a certain amount of votes for your game to be published onto the App Store.

    May be a crappy solution, just trying to help reverse the GS stigma...

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  • uptimistikuptimistik VenezuelaPosts: 3,598Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    @ JPickard I like that solution a lot!(as a fellow newbie myself lol)

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  • JPickardJPickard Posts: 477Member
    uptimistik said:
    Hmm, what about a system where a game has to be published to the web first and voted on. You then need a certain amount of votes for your game to be published onto the App Store.

    May be a crappy solution, just trying to help reverse the GS stigma...

    Hmm. Too many good games might be kept out by the vagaries of personal taste and/or a popularity contest. But you're on the right track.
  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef
    This has been discussed time and time again. The cost of pro should never go any lower than it is. EVER. They do how ever need to go back to charging $100 to be able to publish iOS builds and leave the web publishing free. thats where most of these crappy apps belong anyway. not on the app store. on the web where anyone who wants to waste their time can open them and play them and then be disappointed

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • uptimistikuptimistik VenezuelaPosts: 3,598Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    tenrdrmer said:
    " on the web where anyone who wants to waste their time can open them and play them and then be disappointed"

    I laughed so hard at this

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  • MrshoestoreMrshoestore Posts: 181Member
    As someone who doesn't want to spend ANY money to create and sell a game... they should probably charge $100 to be able to publish, and then web and local builds be free. And I do think the cost of pro is fine as is, if the things in the roadmap actually materialize.

    if the difference between spending no money and spending $100 was the ability to publish to app store free of GS splash screen, I would pay it right now and then upgrade to pro to access additional features (like android publishing :) ) later
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    Don't thing charging a little is going to discourage anything .. after all everyone pays the $99 to Apple.
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    I don't think so either. And I don't think it's down to GS to "police" it's users anyhow. Apple can't censor either because if a game works, it works; what's one person's mind-numbingly boring gameplay and graphics looking like they were done by a five year old might be just the ticket for some user.... or probably not. Perhaps Apple needs a clause or rule whatever, that if an App hasn't sold so many within six months, it's automatically removed from the App store. THat still won't stop a steady trickle of new poor offerings that drag down GS's (and gamers trying to make professional/semi-prof. offerings) reputations though, of course...at least it'll clear out the older poor stuff though.

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • MrshoestoreMrshoestore Posts: 181Member
    @gyroscope

    I get that GS shouldn't police, because GS is a design program that allows a user to create. You don't see Photoshop or After Effects policing what leaves the program.

    But, Apple should censor because of brand imaging and their corporate identity. Apple has done a lot to work up the image of high-style, hip, and professional products. And the applications available should follow suit.

    BUT, at the same time, it allows Apple to say "App Store, now with a MILLION Apps"

    You could really write up a couple college thesis-es on it.

    But I am for a tiered system in GS that at $100 you remove the splash, at $500 you get all the features
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Posts: 1,593Member
    Now that two groups have formed on here, the pro users and us free users how make crappy games, I think gs should remove the ugly unprofessional splash screen from the free version and PUT IT BACK for PRO users to display!

    Think about it. That would make everyone happy. Gs would get a better reputation (which is invaluable) and we who make "crappy" apps with the free version wouldn't have to wear a brown paper bag every time we have to leave the house.

    So come one gs, reverse that thing ... it's a win/win situation! LOL
  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    Xylofun your idea is so wicked that it may work :)

    ________________________________
    【ツ】iPhone Icon Pack 【ツ】 - 【ツ】Graphic Pack【ツ】
    Free GS demo: High score simple and advanced; Game Center; App Rating System
  • FloridaGamesFloridaGames Posts: 328Member
    I may be missing something here, but whats wrong with crappy apps, its not like their giving us any competition?
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    xyloFUN said:
    Now that two groups have formed on here, the pro users and us free users how make crappy games, I think gs should remove the ugly unprofessional splash screen from the free version and PUT IT BACK for PRO users to display!

    Think about it. That would make everyone happy. Gs would get a better reputation (which is invaluable) and we who make "crappy" apps with the free version wouldn't have to wear a brown paper bag every time we have to leave the house.

    So come one gs, reverse that thing ... it's a win/win situation! LOL

    Funny xylo :D seeing as how much stink was caused by PROs having to keep it in their games before. This is really a no solution problem. Its like YouTube and any other liberating service. You either have big, powerful entities with connections, money etc controlling everything and the little guys get screwed or you open it up and everyone joins in. Seems like the open route is working quite well for a lot of people.
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    Hi TacoStand; for instance: I read recently a post by one of the administrators or similar of Touch Arcade; he was less than flattering of GS. So crappy apps does 3 things: brings down reputation of Apple; and GS of course, maybe steering away some good game developers who might have otherwise have tried it; and making review sites wary of touching anything made by GS, the good/really good/excellent/awesome stuff buried so they might not get to hear about them.

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    gyroscope said:
    and making review sites wary of touching anything made by GS, the good/really good/excellent/awesome stuff buried so they might not get to hear about them.

    How are they learning that a PROs game is built by GS?
  • FloridaGamesFloridaGames Posts: 328Member
    TacoStand said:
    I may be missing something here, but whats wrong with crappy apps, its not like their giving us any competition?

    gyroscope said:
    Hi TacoStand; for instance: I read recently a post by one of the administrators or similar of Touch Arcade; he was less than flattering of GS. So crappy apps does 3 things: brings down reputation of Apple; and GS of course, maybe steering away some good game developers who might have otherwise have tried it; and making review sites wary of touching anything made by GS, the good/really good/excellent/awesome stuff buried so they might not get to hear about them.

    thats why was sure to say "i might be missing something" ;D
  • scitunesscitunes Posts: 4,047Member, Sous Chef
    tenrdrmer said:
    This has been discussed time and time again. The cost of pro should never go any lower than it is. EVER. They do how ever need to go back to charging $100 to be able to publish iOS builds and leave the web publishing free.

    +1
  • JeffreyShimaneJeffreyShimane Posts: 372Member
    I think it should be like this:

    $499/year - same as current pro
    $99/year - same as current free but without the GS splash screen

    GS will then earn money on everyone trying to publish apps (whether awesome or crappy) so there's no need to include the GS branding (which has become something of a stigma anyway). Without the GS splash screen, it will be a lot harder to spot games created with GS and thus crappy games created with GS will not adversely affect the GS brand as an SDK or other games created with GS. It will just be an awesome app or a crappy app (or anything in between) based on its own merit.

    - Jeff
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    simo103 said:
    How are they learning that a PROs game is built by GS?

    Well, not all pro members want to get rid of the splash; what I'm saying is those that don't and are good games can get lost in a mire of not-so-good stuff; but what I also mean is non-pro doesn't automatically mean crap - no way. I think XYLOfun was being tongue-in-cheek there; I'm not agreeing with that comment even if he wasn't!

    Buying a pro doesn't automatically make a crap game marvellous either. A game is either good, bad or indifferent whether or not a pro license is bought. Although I guess the majority of games made by pro are good stuff!

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef
    simo103 said:
    How are they learning that a PROs game is built by GS?

    Because every GS game still has the signature loading wheel. you just have to be paying attention to realize your playing a GS game.

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef
    TacoStand said:
    I may be missing something here, but whats wrong with crappy apps, its not like their giving us any competition?

    Because every time a crappy app is released it push's a good app a little deeper into the abyss making it harder to find. unless it was fortunate enough to get into the top 100 very quickly

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • jb15jb15 Posts: 602Member
    Too easy--lots of dumb games on the store, and it's giving GS a bad reputation.
  • JPickardJPickard Posts: 477Member
    I kinda feel sorry for the GameSalad company when the users and supporters like us need to discuss weather we want our games branded with their brand. I think GS really needs to think hard about this subject. I'm new here, and I can't yet afford Pro, but even if I could, I think GS needs to worry about me worrying about a bad stigma, despite the fact that their product is awesome. Honestly, when my game is ready for Prime Time, with or without pro, it sucks that I may have to "hide" it's origin just to be reviewed on the more influential game sites. Catch 22 for Game Salad, no doubt.
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    I see your point; it does upset me too (upset, well, maybe not that bad...) that it seems a lot of people refuse to give a bit of advertising for the very SDK which created their game (unless their app isn't a game). And an excellent SDK it is too, teething problems and all. I can't wait for 1.0, let alone 2.0.

    On a positive note, i'm convinced that the games that aren't up to par are in the minority whether pro or not. Those just seem to influence reviewers concerning GS generally somehow though despite that...

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • JPickardJPickard Posts: 477Member
    gyroscope said:
    ... Those just seem to influence reviewers concerning GS generally somehow though despite that...

    Well, to be honest, I'm guessing most regular people don't notice, know or care about who's brand is on the splash screen, just like they don't care which studio made a movie, good or bad. The problem is, the review sites do.
  • MrshoestoreMrshoestore Posts: 181Member
    The thing about not wanting to put the GameSalad company logo on your game is that it doesn't belong there. GameSalad is a tool for creation. Give it credit if you want in your game, but their logo does not need to be on your game (at a commercial level). Can you tell the difference which films are edited using Avid or Final Cut? Not unless you ask the editors of the film. A great creation tool shows no signs of it's existence at all.

    At the same time, you should pay for your tool if you're going to make money using it, and that's why people go Pro.

    It doesn't matter how great the tool is or isn't, or the assumption of the quality of the work made with it. The tool is only important to the creator, not the audience. But if the audience becomes aware of the tool, then they have something to blame any faults onto. And then the creator blames the tool as well. And a bad reputation is created.

    and...wait... what was I going on about?... ehh... back to game-making! :)
  • scitunesscitunes Posts: 4,047Member, Sous Chef
    Mrshoestore said:
    The thing about not wanting to put the GameSalad company logo on your game is that it doesn't belong there. GameSalad is a tool for creation. Give it credit if you want in your game, but their logo does not need to be on your game (at a commercial level). Can you tell the difference which films are edited using Avid or Final Cut? Not unless you ask the editors of the film. A great creation tool shows no signs of it's existence at all.

    At the same time, you should pay for your tool if you're going to make money using it, and that's why people go Pro.

    It doesn't matter how great the tool is or isn't, or the assumption of the quality of the work made with it. The tool is only important to the creator, not the audience. But if the audience becomes aware of the tool, then they have something to blame any faults onto. And then the creator blames the tool as well. And a bad reputation is created.

    and...wait... what was I going on about?... ehh... back to game-making! :)

    very interesting. I like your style, man.
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