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GameSalad 0.9.91 is here! Introducing Kiip, Playhaven and Custom Splash Screens for All!

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  • HoneyTribeStudiosHoneyTribeStudios Posts: 1,792Member
    @saladstraightshooter - Ok I'll stop posting nonsensical ramblings if you answer my PM's. Deal?

    Give me a buzz if you need some original music in your games.

  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,172Member
    edited February 2012
    @arcticsunrise
    If you were a plumber and wanted to make a living you would need to buy 'tools' to enable you to do your job.
    That's exactly why I think GameSalad is going in the wrong direction. Compare the software to other tools for desktop publishing, GameSalad is way too expensive.


    EVERY FOUR YEARS ON AVERAGE... I upgrade my Macromedia/Adobe software for about $499... That's about $150 a year. And if I choose not to upgrade, or skip an upgrade, I can keep using the version I have indefinitely. GameSalad is not on the level of Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Flash, Acrobat, DreamWeaver and Fireworks. I have all of those programs in The Adobe Creative Suite... and it's about $500-$700 to upgrade.

    Does GameSalad seriously think this software is on the same level of Adobe?

    Quite frankly, the competition has more features for less money... and I don't mean Adobe. I'm surprised that there's even a debate. Instead of wasting time with monetization gimmicks, GameSalad should have delivered the performance and features that the developers — THE CUSTOMERS — are looking for. Something as simple as Game Center Achievements is still not supported with GameSalad. The Lost City could have been a GameSalad success story. Instead, it just highlights what's wrong here.

    When awesome and inexpensive programs are on the Mac App Store... like Pixelmator for $29.99... I'm surprised that GameSalad thinks $499 a year is a good strategy.
    @SaladStraightShooter
    the introduction of an ad feature for basic users in no way correlates to GameSalad Direct in any shape or form. Please avoid drawing parallels that don't exist, even in jest, and especially when folks are discussing this passionately.
    Actually, GameSalad Direct® is exactly what this reminds me of. It's as if the lessons of the past weren't learned. It's real simple... don't try to own people's games. This was sprung on the community out of the blue. It pushes developers away, into the welcoming arms of the competition.
  • entersimonentersimon Posts: 269Member
    @Photics

    I agree.


    Now for my drop in the bucket.

    GS needs to make money to survive, but in order to get that money they have to provide a product in a way that is attractive to not only their current users, but also potential users. I think this move was a mistake because it offers no opt out unless you're willing to pay a premium price.

    There is of course the idea that free users should just accept whatever it is that comes their way because, well, it's free. But keep in mind that there is such a huge gap between free and pro users because not everyone can afford a Pro membership. It really is a lot of money. That makes paying to opt out more than an inconvenience (which is actually acceptable), it makes it impossible for many people.

    My suggestion would be to have two options for free users. Either they get to use their own splash screen for branding and have to accept an ad immediately after, or they can choose to use the GS splash screen without an ad. GS either gets money from the ad, or they get brand impressions.

    Giving people a choice on how they want to brand their products would most likely yield better results than this from a PR standpoint.

    Maybe you guys can talk about this during your next podcast. ;)

    Check out my daily app development blog at TheIndieDev.com

  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Posts: 6,256Member
    edited February 2012
    @ HoneyTribe

    "Ok I'll stop posting nonsensical ramblings if you answer my PM's. Deal?"

    Im not trying to be rude, but if your told by a head chef not to post something off topic and it continues, it'll just be deleted. Theres no negotiations about that.

    cheers
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @Tynan - I requested you take the bizarre discussion elsewhere - your comments were off-topic, which is why I chose to remove them, as I warned other users discussing points that did not pertain to the 0.9.91 release. Please don't bring your perception of censorship or your perception of my abilities as a community manager into this. You're more than welcome to discuss this with me further via PM.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @Photics - we make no claim on anyone's games, nor do we wish to. Utilizing an ad feature in lieu of eliminating a free version of the tool is a reasonable, practical trade off. You're welcome to disagree, and obviously do, but I stand by my previous comments on the subject of the correlation between this and GameSalad direct - and as I said previously, pushing that point will be considered off-topic.

    I will also reiterate this point: GameSalad Basic is a powerful tool that a developer of limited experience can utilize to make a considerable income. The trade off for allowing the use of this powerful tool is a single ad at the start of the application. Nothing else - and the tool is yours to use to make a business from - given a decent application - more money than that single ad could ever conceivably make. Despite the perception, basic users have

    Can we step away from contrasting GameSalad against a program that has no correlation to it?

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @entersimon - I can understand your points, but to address your second point - We want to keep GameSalad "Development for Everyone". If a user can't afford a Pro membership, we do not attempt to force it on them. (as I've said previously) - nor do we want to. But I think the point you're making only highlights the need for some kind of middle ground.

    The trade off - and again, this is more mentioning what I have previously, was the opportunity to utilize a personalized splash screen for the branding you desire.

    For fear of sounding like a broken record, I'll leave it at that. But trust that we are listening to the feedback here.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • ultimaultima Posts: 1,207Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    tynan was brilliantly putting out the flame for you guys... lol. and you removed the extinguisher.. anyway, i hope that GS is not swarmed by the feedback regarding to free membership and cost structure that the scheduled roadmap gets further delayed...

    (edited)
    haha ok, SSS.
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @HoneytribeStudios - apologies for slow responses, things have been hectic. I'll hit you up as soon as possible.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @ultima - I can appreciate that - and do - but this is a discussion that needs to take place, professionally, and no amount of off-topic joking will distract from that.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • muoch10muoch10 Posts: 112Member
    edited February 2012
    Guys, look at it like this, someone is reviewing your app and they see the made with gamesalad screen, this tells them that the developer made it with gamesalad, and gamesalad isnt respect among reviewing sites. But if you have an ad, well they wont know its made with gamesalad, sadly, I think we want our app to seem as far away from gamesalad as possible. We want people to open the app and see it as a professional app. Without a splash screen it is impossible. The ads are normal, many of the biggest apps out there have ads, but none of the biggest apps out there say made with gamesalad, or have a shown connection with gamesalad. In the end, a professional company may have ads on their app, but they wont have a made with gamesalad logo on it ever.
    Also if you want to have control of being professional you should pay for the software, you gotta spend money to make money, but for the people who do this as a hobby (me), we dont care about how professional the app is, we dont care if someone knows its made with gamesalad, but just as much as I dont care if people know how I made it, I dont care if people see an ad, because you gotta remember the people who aren't spending money can't expect to be looked at professionally. I dont see any big or semi big company out there that doesn't spend money, and its not a lot considering how much you can make, lets say you make 3 apps a year, you could easily pull the money out for the pro.
  • GameTeamOneGameTeamOne Posts: 88Member, PRO
    @entersimon
    We are feeling our way through the tone of the GameHunks podcast currently, since it is so new. Do we talk retro games? Do we go topical and talk current events in the games industry? Do we focus on tips and tricks and how to use GameSalad in cool ways? Do we talk about the business models?

    ...for now I think the GameHunk contributors are going to keep the tone light and not get too involved with the business end of stuff. We love games and aim to keep the indie spirit alive. While it may not seem like it to a lot of our community who have painted the company with a really harsh brush, we are all game enthusiasts and many of us are former independent developers so we know what it is like to struggle and sacrifice for our love of the craft. I would urge the users who are up in arms about the recent monetization efforts to be patient and learn as much as you can about the services we have implemented before jumping to conclusions. Now that we have the infrastructure in place, it will be much easier for us to add in other popular monetization services that many of you have requested.

    Don't forget to attend the webinar tomorrow if you are available so you can ask your burning questions in real time and learn some valuable info and best practices.
  • zombiesdrulezombiesdrule Posts: 131PRO
    My 2c, I'm Happy with the update and I think it's all fair.
    Thanks GS
  • pinkio75pinkio75 Posts: 788Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    I read so much here, but it's really hard to create an intermediate version of gs?
    I mean, intermediate with some privileges, with the cost maybe $ 199 per year, with the ability to remove commercials, or keep it but make money for it, obviously with a max of 2 publications per year.
    I'd like to go pro, but now is not really possible to spend $ 499.
    I hope not to offend anyone here by saying this.
    sorry for my bad English :)
    Bye
  • CloudsClouds Posts: 1,599Member
    edited February 2012
    What happens with regards to PlayHaven ads when you have no access to the Internet or are simply offline ? Does the PlayHaven part of your app/game's opening sequence just display a black screen or does it simply skip over this stage and go on to your first scene ?

    If either of these scenarios are right users can effectively switch of in-app ads by flicking the WI-FI switch in preferences ? Mind you presumably people can do that now with in-app ads but choose not to ?
  • CloudsClouds Posts: 1,599Member
    Just grabbed Angry Birds Free, running it with when connected to the internet gives your the usual slew of in-app ads, flicking the Wi-Fi switch in preferences removes all the ads, never tried it before, but for those of you annoyed by ads there seems to be an off switch, I don't have a iPhone but I imagine there is a similarly easy way to disconnect yourself (?).
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    @saladstraightshooter
    (This post is bit off topic, However I was building on @entersimon 's post) (I would really appreciate, If You read this and offered some feedback... You yourself said GS thrive on suggestions and feedback)
    Below is @saladstraightshooter 's response to entersimon's post...
    I can understand your points, but to address your second point - We want to keep GameSalad "Development for Everyone". If a user can't afford a Pro membership, we do not attempt to force it on them. (as I've said previously) - nor do we want to. But I think the point you're making only highlights the need for some kind of middle ground.
    I thought so to, But to re-enforce his point I personally think and I voice it as a suggestion.. That GS either makes a middle feature section like free-express-pro Or they have select features, Which proven in marketing and monetization throughout software and virtual products select feature purchasing is most popular as it keeps customers happy and earns the company (GS) More money..... While it creates an illusion (False-Reality) That the customer is getting more for their money... If say iAD's were $99 and play haven revenue was $120 and I wanted both of those and bought them and added them to my account, I would then have 2 features that I would have wanted, GameSalad would have $219 from someone who probably would have barely upgraded to pro @ $500..... So as proven by Apple, Adobe, Microsoft Select feature purchasing is the most successful means of monetization when selling virtual products (i.e= GameSalad & Features) So in conclusion GS would attract more money this way, Allowing them to expand and most importantly kill off a lot of competitors.
    Just My view and I hope you read it!,
    J.Leonard
  • CloudsClouds Posts: 1,599Member
    edited February 2012
    @LeonardDeveloper

    " If say iAD's were $99 and play haven revenue was $120 and I wanted both of those and bought them and added them to my account, I would then have 2 features that I would have wanted, GameSalad would have $219 from someone . . . "

    Oddly this is the exact opposite from what I am getting from ths thread, I think people would be more likely to pay a fee to remove the adverts from their app.
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    @tynan
    I meant paying a fee to remove playhaven or gain revenue from it......
    " If say iAD's were $99 and play haven revenue was $120 and I wanted both of those and bought them and added them to my account, I would then have 2 features that I would have wanted, GameSalad would have $219 from someone . . . "
  • CloudsClouds Posts: 1,599Member
    Sorry, yes I see what you mean now.
  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,172Member
    edited February 2012
    @SaladStraightShooter
    Can we step away from contrasting GameSalad against a program that has no correlation to it?
    Well, my perspective is simple... and tshirtbooth doesn't do any favors for GameSalad with showing people the door... I watch the forums for something to get excited about. This wasn't it. I've told you guys this before... give people the heads up when you're going to make major changes like this. That way, the developers can prepare.


    I do respect that you are willing to respond to comments on this issue. It's a tough job and you're doing it well.
  • zombieaddictzombieaddict Posts: 213Member
    have noticed that the loading wheel that appears when the playhaven ad is meant to display is centered? looks much better. should be like this all the time instead of in the corner.
  • anithmukanithmuk Posts: 235Member
    edited February 2012
    GS is a great tool, but a lot of the decisions being made by the administration just don't make any sense. I don't have a problem with playhaven, if you're using GS's free software let them put one ad at the beginning of your game, it's no big deal. What I can't get my head around are the endless amount of simple fixes they can implement to make GS so much better, just scrolling down the feature suggestions section of the forums you see so many little things, like retina text, a way to organise actors and attributes and images, mass changing actors/prototypes, customisable loading circle etc that should be part of the basic creator. The biggest thing though is the pricing structure. It's clear so many people want an in-between price and cheaper pro, going from $0-$500 is a huge leap, especially since $500/year for a beta piece of software really isn't justified by the instability and performance of the engine. There's clearly so much demand for pro that a drop in price to say $300 will get a lot more pro users both new and those unwilling to renew at $500 (including myself), but the demand does not at all justify a $500/year price that as photics stated, is uncompetitive even compared to high quality professional software. A price drop is needed, even by simple economic standards, theres an infinite supply of pro accounts and the demand is super crazy unbelievably elastic, drop the price, get a bunch of users to go pro and renew and make lots of money.
    As I said I have no problem with playhaven or this release in genreal, I personally like the additions of different revenue streams and I plan to use both playhaven and kiip in the future. I also feel GS should be able to, and are completely entitled to, monetise their free user base, and they should use gains from the basic users to help reduce the cost of the pro membership. All in all they should be doing all they can to encourage users to go pro, encourage users to renew and help their pro users as much as possible, that's how they're going to make more money.

    TL;DR I like this release and what it adds, GS is entitled to advertise off of free users and a 'half-pro' account and a price drop on pro is a perfect solution to a lot of problems and will make a lot of people happy and make GS a lot of money.
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    AWWWW!!! I missed out on all the fun :(
  • anithmukanithmuk Posts: 235Member
    ^ I feel ya man.
    While we sleep in Australia, everything happens in America
  • arcticsunrisearcticsunrise Posts: 159Member
    @tynan lol yeh well i avoid commercial coffee chains and grab from an indie hence the price - and its only if i dont have time t get one in the morning

    @photics - whilst i see your point regarding creative tools like adobe and being able to use it whether you upgrade or not i kinda refer you to Apple in general with its updating hardware every year and ios systems - if you make a game you want it to work on every piece of kit so chances are as a developer you buy the new hardware each year so you can test it and you also pay the apple dev fee each year so you can continue to publish. As a pro member each year you get bits added for your money - whilst i agree that it still lacks certain functions to make it worthy of the full asking price i overlook this for what it can do for me right now. I know im paying for its development almost like an ongoing kickstarter model but its how the software got made and will continue to evolve. I agree that certain missing functions would enable better game making and therefore better income however support from things like kiip and playhaven give an investment boost into GS coffers because on pro members alone they couldnt afford to continue without external funding and investment so i see it as a necessary business investment

  • HoneyTribeStudiosHoneyTribeStudios Posts: 1,792Member
    edited February 2012
    @saladstraightshooter - Ok thanks for clarifying via PM

    Avoiding disgruntlement over new advertising policies - you could prob do that with a new pricing model.

    With payment models, well you prob can cater for the different things users and GS owners want. Offer both pay-as-you-go/iap style payments and also monthly/annual subscriptions. So it'd be much easier to try a few of the pro features without jumping in with the full yearly subscription. But the annual sub should work out cheaper for all the features combined.

    I bet you 100 cow clicker Mooney GS would end up making more money that way AND make peeps round here happier. Or at least complain less. Assuming the pricing models were worked out properly.

    @ozboybrain @anithmuk- Don't worry, Tynan's-free-for-all-ultimate-fighting-tournament-of-death-and-glory isn't 'till the end of the week. You still have a couple days left to train.

    Give me a buzz if you need some original music in your games.

  • byteblorgbyteblorg Posts: 14Member
    80% of us wouldn't even be making apps or would not even have the speed of releasing quality games without GS.
    GS team,hoooooooooo-ah!
  • gamedivisiongamedivision Posts: 807Member
    @byteblorg
    half the people making games shouldnt be making games anyway ,because their loading the app store with crap.hence why its hard to make any real money,its software like this that lets people bog the market down.shouldnt be able to publish for free
  • MotherHooseMotherHoose Posts: 2,456Member
    Making games should be free for everyone! Publishing games should cost something!

    I wont donate $500 for things I abhor: ads in games; in-ap purchases; gameCenter; etc. … my games so far have earned good money … don't want the users to have to pay more for the pleasure; nor have ads distract from the visual ambience I am trying to give them … a never want them to leave my games! …

    I would buy for $500: read/write/name accessible tables; more robust fontSelections; etc.

    I dislike people saying … put-up and shut-up … there's always: MonkeyCoder; AGK; GameEditor; LiveCode5; Unity; Xcode, etc.
    I love GS … but if GS can't give me an upgrade that is an upgrade … and not something that will downgrade my work … I have to consider spending less than $500 to upgrade one of my other engines.

    @Tynan … am up for the Hanger Scenario … just make sure you have some good strong studs supporting the building! and, me.

    @};- MH
This discussion has been closed.