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GameSalad 0.9.91 is here! Introducing Kiip, Playhaven and Custom Splash Screens for All!

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  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member
    edited February 2012
    @FBS ok... Im guessing your last comments were aimed at me....

    For the record I so want GS to succeed. Ive been a Pro, and I dont actually have any problem paying $500 for software, if its worth it, stable, and the company producing it doesnt **** me around whenever they decide they want to change direction.... which is every 3-4 months with GS.

    Im 40 years old... and been a professional game developer for over 20 years. I know how to make games. I also know that theres a variety of engine/tool options out there for creating games, and the choices are increasing all the time. Some, I already own licenses for, others Im thinking of using. For the past 2 years Ive invested my time into learning and using GS. Its great software... but its constantly in a state of half working/broken/missing features. I put up with that, and hope that the software will improve, as i do like using it. What i dont like, is the sudden changes in direction, and how things are forced on the userbase without any consultation or notice. It does GS business and reputation no good... it makes it a tool derided by most serious developers and studios, as they simply cannot plan ahead safely and trust that the software is going to remain usable and in a stable state.

    So.. FBS.. my concerns arent about the cost of the software. My concerns are about the direction the software is going, and that another wildcard decision has been thrown into the mix without any consultation.

    My Pro ran out about 3 weeks ago... had tables/arrays been properly implemented, to be fully read/write, and had there been some work on improving the editor interface (grids,layer tools, multiple copy/paste etc) I'd have renewed and paid the $500 without even thinking. But thats not the case. So Im not ungrateful, and I dont need to grow up. I just want GS to get a direction and stick to it, and improve the software instead of dicking around with monetization features all the time.

    They'll get far more paying Pro users by simply improving the core engine and tools, than by bolting on half baked monetizing features all the time. I want them to become more profitable, and to stick around...

    But yup... I'll agree to disagree with you... and leave it at that.
  • 8BitAvrin8BitAvrin Posts: 361Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    @FryingBaconStudios Thats great dude. I'm not trying to get in a spat with you. I don't assume that you owe me anything because you don't. Just letting you know calling people lazy who you don't even know is ridiculous. I liked your videos because they did help a little and liked that you were giving little tidbits of advice in them too. I'm a business admin/finance/economics major and I consider my self knowledgable so I appreciate intelligence and it seemed like you had some of that in you. However, after reading your forums posts I'm not sure who you are as a person at all. I know you don't care now but just be careful how rude you are to people, you never know where they'll be in the future. Building networks with smart and successful people is important. I try to treat everyone with respect because it's the right thing to do and also because you never know who's help you may need.

    WebsiteTwitter ∞ My apps are available on: Apple iOS App StoreGoogle Play App StoreAmazon App Store

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,906Member
    edited February 2012
    If you took it personnel I'm sorry, it was meant as more of a general statement but you might be enlightened by Steve Job's biography as to how to move in business. He was straight and to the point and only worked with A players. As my father taught me, friends is friends and business is business and those two worlds need to stay apart. Some may see my comments as crude but if one has spent anytime in the business world and I'm talking about real business where large sums of money are at stake lots of zeros, they know how tough and unmercyful that world is. Been there done that. What kind of person am I? I am the kind of person who dares to tell one the truth and the truth isn't always candy canes and bubble gum. So take it or leave it, I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest. I try to give people the truth and motivation to push themselves. Most people that worked with Jobs said the guy was an **** but he got out of me more than I could have ever imagined from myself and in the end they were thankful he pushed them. Just for the record I am just as hard on myself if not more.
  • mintmomegmintmomeg Posts: 261Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    QUick question about Klip and playheaven
    Am I understand right?
    1. Klip can add for IPhone , Ipad, mac and android.
    2. playheaven can add only Iphone, ipad and mac app right

    another 2 question
    1. How long does it take to get money to my paypal from both klip and playheaven
    2. How can I see report from both klip and playheaven after we sign up follow GS cookbook we dont know user name and password to login to klip and playheaven
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    Interesting discussion ..... from various perspectives this can seem to be both good and bad. Let me lay one perspective out. I'm a hobby user, hoping to eventually go pro when/if my games make enough to pay for it. Since making games is in my spare time I can't predict if I can make more than a few decent games a year so $500 per year is a lot on the chance that the pro features will pay off better than the free version. Now the free will come with a game ad ... Some say no big deal, others think that this will get negative reviews from people who pay and then get an ad right at the beginning .... I'm not sure which is right but I guess we'll find out. If it does negatively impact sales then free GS users will be hurt and delayed in moving up to pro. Wonder how great pro users think this is? Are you going to put it in your paid games? I suspect most won't cause they think it will have a negative effect. I'm happy to have the free option so perhaps as some have put it I should just be thankful and shut up ... But also wanted to just add my voice for a basic pay option in between free and pro ... Think this hobby is worth $99 for sure.
  • gregr209gregr209 Posts: 441Member
    edited February 2012
    Do we have any real world examples of how PlayHaven works yet? I am guessing not since it takes awhile for apps to get approved. I want to see how this works...I am sure we will get more information in the Thursday webcast and that might help. I am just curious, the ad can be clicked thru, correct? It could take a user from my app out to the iTunes store right to another app and then the user will have to come back to my app to play. Is that how it works?

    I just checked out the PlayHaven website and it doesn't look like it works for Mac or Android right now...just iOS. So for Mac apps there should be no PlayHaven ads. Can anyone confirm this?
  • osucowboy18osucowboy18 Posts: 1,307Member
    @SaladStraightShooter and the GameSalad Team: Thank you so much for this update! In order to stay competitive in this market, we need to stay current (and get ahead when possible) of our competition. This update, bringing Kiip and PlayHaven does just that. While I am desperately waiting for Android publishing bugs (sound, loading times, etc.) to be resolved, I am thrilled with the new features you have given to Pro users in this update. Keep up the good work!

    Now for my two cents on the whole free users and PlayHaven debate...

    Holy crap! I absolutely agree 100% with everything @tshirtbooth has said on this issue! I swear, there is just no pleasing you free users. It seems like nothing GameSalad does is ever good enough for you. First they make an incredible piece of software that lets you make iOS apps without writing a SINGLE line of code. Then, they make it FREE to everyone who wants it. Now you all are so shocked when they have to start promoting their Pro Membership package to make some money? What is it with you all that every little thing GameSalad does that doesn't thrill you is like the sky is falling? Since it has been stated many times before in this thread, I don't feel the need to elaborate on the fact that GameSalad is a business, and a growing one at that. It's clear (at least to some of us) that any business has to make money to survive. So, when they give you an opportunity to make an iOS app with their software without writing a single line of code, don't charge you a dime for it, remove their branding from it completely, and only ask that you have only one ad at the beginning that most users may not even look at, you should be falling on your knees thanking them and not grabbing your torch and pitch forks protesting. All I ask is that you step back for a minute and look at the situation from the other side, and put yourself in GameSalad's position.

    Now before everyone jumps on me, I am fully aware of the fact that not all free users share the mentality I've described above, and this is in no way directed at you. This is directed at those that don't have a clue about how business works. As some of you may know, I have been with GameSalad since June of 2010. I have been a Pro user for almost 14 months, with my subscription ending this month. And, thanks to GameSalad, I have managed to form a company dedicated to writing quality mobile applications and software. As @FryingBaconStudios can relate I'm sure (along with several others here on the forums), it is not easy by any stretch of the imagination to get any company off the ground, especially in this particular industry, when you have competitors like EA that crush thousands of developers every year. This industry is very competitive and only the best will be able to survive the long run. If you're doing this as a business, then you had better get use to things like this if you're going to last. Its not unfair, its life, and whoever said life was fair. If you're a hobbyist doing this just for fun and maybe to make a little extra pocket change, then you should be thrilled with everything GameSalad has done to make your life easier. Especially if their only placing one add in your game. Lastly, if you belong to the group that are trying to grow your business with the free version and saving up for your Pro membership, then you should be aware by now that, as @SaladStraightShooter said, people can (and have) made a lot of money from an app made with the free addition of GameSalad. And as far as the whole "they may like the game in the ad better than mine" argument, find a new excuse! If someone is really not even going to give your game a chance after you got them to download it in the first place just because they saw an image of another game that looked cool, you need to step up the quality of your product. If you've got a good game, everyone who downloads it will want to play it, with or without ads. Take games like Temple Run that advertise other games for their competitors. When I see one of those ads come up, I might tap on it to see what the app looks like, but sooner or later, I go back to playing Temple Run weather I downloaded the app in the ad or not. Why? Because Temple Run was a good idea that has been executed well. That's all you as a developer have to worry about (and all that you have control of) is making the best product you can. GameSalad gives you a big boost ahead of the competition by offering this software for free. You know, maybe if those who are complaining put as much work and effort into their apps as they do slamming GameSalad, they would have made the $500 to buy pro by now ;)

    Well since everyone is entitled to an opinion, that is mine. Again, thank you GameSalad for all your hard work, and I look forward to future releases with anticipation and excitement! Now, as SSS has said, let's try to keep this civil.

    - Alex
  • tkullatkulla Posts: 64Member
    edited February 2012
    Perhaps it's just the Howard Roark in me, but I despise in-game ads. I'll never publish a game with an ad in it, even if I was guaranteed to make more money. I believe in what I'm doing and if my first game is successful (even modestly) I'll become a pro user and produce another. But let's not pretend like an in-game ad, that has to be clicked away no less, is not disruptive. My game won't have it - I'll publish under .9.90 and happily display the GameSalad splash screen instead. I have no problem with this, though I think it should appear in AdHoc versions of the game so I can see what it's like before I publish. Until today I was unaware of this screen.

    As I've already said, GS will thrive if developers are successful using it. Perhaps a change in pricing model to something like this would be better:

    Free - Download and use GameSalad. Create AdHoc versions but can't publish to the app store.
    $99/year - Semi-Pro user (hobbyist). Full featured but limited to two apps published per year.
    $499/year - Pro user. Full featured and unlimited apps published.

    This model would eliminate the less-serious efforts that can undermine the reputation of GameSalad as a serious development platform, while providing a gateway for hobbyists like me to get started without going all-in on the first hand.

    Also, I know this is an internet forum and carries all the baggage that entails, but I must say that some of the established users here aren't terribly friendly. There's more than one way to want GameSalad (and its users) to succeed. I happen to think the current model is not a good one, and it makes me worry about the long-term health of the platform.

    SSS, thanks for listening. I wish you the very best.

    Tony
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    Ok it's settled then .... Play haven in your game itsn't seen as a negative by anyone, if fact because it is only seen as positive ... Pros make more money if player clicks on ad ... Then all pros will be updating their Paid games ASAP with play haven included ..... Right? ..... Or not? If pros think it is negative to the value of their game, then it must also likely be negative to all games and if that is so ... Then why are some surprised that free gs users are voicing their opinions? After all most seem willing to pay gs something, wish gs to be successful. It hinges on whether this is seen as negative or not .... so what is it pros? What ya gonna do? Play haven or not?
  • GLGAMESGLGAMES SingaporePosts: 988Member
    OMG finally alternative money making features. Thank you very much GS team!!
  • RacetotheMoonRacetotheMoon Posts: 323Member
    edited February 2012
    Getting past all the hard feelings for a second, the more I've read about Playhaven the more I'm actually thinking about using it. However, as Pro subscriber I'd like to be able to define the placement of when it's used.

    Playhaven offers a number of different ways that it's able to be integrated. For me, and probably most others, at the game's launch is the least attractive moment. However the Playhaven people have done some nice work on their end to create a robust tool that helps build user retention. Things such as giving a player rewards for coming back each day, or beating a level. Similar to Kiip, but infinitely better because it's immediately viable to the user experience.

    Furthermore, I think if all GameSalad members actually used Playhaven then the visibility of our apps would become that much greater.

    Lastly (on Playhaven), if a company like Halfbrick is using it, and they still haven't been banished form the App store in the form of negative reviews and people not playing their apps anymore, then I think it's okay if we use it. Of course, to each their own, I'd never tell people what they should and what they shouldn't get up in arms about, but this isn't as much a negative as some might think. I think it does suck to have something forced on you, so I completely understand why some are upset, but nobody is forcing you to use the tool.

    As for other things.. I echo FutureNewbApps and others in stating that I'm DEEPLY disappointed NOTHING was done on the Android front. MegaRunner is getting SLAMMED in the reviews on the Nook and Fire. Lagging, 'Sticky' buttons being the biggest culprit. I'll be damned if I'm going to release a serious project that I've spent months on only to have the ball taken out of my hands by shitty engine performance. Sorry, but it's happened to me now more than once while using this engine.

    That said, I'm going to breathe deep and assume the reason why nothing was addressed is because they are moving away from Lua and that once the conversion is made the issues will be fixed, completely.
  • MediaBrosMediaBros Posts: 26Member, PRO
    Yo TShirtBooth, Do you remember this time last year you came back from Valentine's dinner and everything had kicked off with Gamesalad Direct?? Gamesalad...you gotta love em hey? They're like the Don King of the Boxing world Love it
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    edited February 2012
    @MediaBros - the introduction of an ad feature for basic users in no way correlates to GameSalad Direct in any shape or form. Please avoid drawing parallels that don't exist, even in jest, and especially when folks are discussing this passionately.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • morphinegamingmachinemorphinegamingmachine Posts: 449Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    also, @mediabros don't be dumb and call out the user who helps the community the most for the sole reason of getting a rise out of him

    we can't let this GREAT COMMUNITY of helpers stop
  • osucowboy18osucowboy18 Posts: 1,307Member
    Just installed the update to Creator, and all is well so far. I published a new build of an app we are trying to port over to the Fire, and I am happy to report the horrible loading times I was experiencing with 0.9.9 are gone! I can also state that when I hit the home button, all audio stops immediately, as intended. Thank you very much GameSalad for making these fixes, and now that we've got Kiip Rewards, we should be able to get our apps on the Amazon AppStore sooner than later :D

    - Alex
  • RacetotheMoonRacetotheMoon Posts: 323Member
    edited February 2012
    You know, one thing that would be great is a Pro only section to this message board.
  • CreativeRightCreativeRight Posts: 11Member, PRO
    How much money can we make off playhaven?
  • StoneDripStoneDrip Posts: 59Member
    How ironic, people said they won't want ads if they BOUGHT an app. And they complain about ADS when using something for free... -.-

    I'm not pro and i kinda prefer just a piece of ad that appears just before the game than the splash screen.
  • mu-kowAPPSmu-kowAPPS Posts: 233Member
    I think this implementation is reasonable enough. I dont know how well playhaven target the ads if at all (very important), but assuming playhaven has all of its ducks in a row, i dont see any foul play. Unless im mistaken, you can only show the add after the splash screen. It would be nice for pro-users to have the option to show the ads more often (give us the same control we have over iads) and be able to disable them with a boolean switch or something.

    I dont care much for any big hairy features until the LUA is removed as they will have to do double work implementing it and once the LUA is gone, i imagine they will be able to give us more powerful/flexible features and at a faster pace. I don't expect polygon collisions/joints/android sound delay fixed/etc. until LUA is gone.

    good job on this one though GS.
  • Fabri DamazioFabri Damazio Posts: 97Member
    @tshirtbooth

    I vote YES for a pro only section in the forums.
  • DoguzDoguz Posts: 500Member
    Here is an interview I conducted earlier.

    What do you think about this play haven thing?
    Mmm. not too sure about it. But I don't like seeing Ads in paid apps.

    But surely you can't complain, because the creator software is free.
    Well, that's true. But I had plans of giving back to Gamessalad once my app efforts paid me back $599. (Apple dev account + GS Pro membership). My wife won't let me otherwise.

    So what's changed?
    Well if I upgrade to the latest Creator version, I would have to publish my apps with ads. Which 'could' decrease their value. And that would mean that Gamesalad will need to wait longer to get a Pro membership from me.

    So just keep using 0.9.9
    OK!

  • EireStudiosEireStudios Posts: 451Member
    @SaladStraightShooter just a quick question mate, can we wrap playhaven in a Boolean and have it removed along with iAds as an IAP?
  • DoguzDoguz Posts: 500Member
    Oh, and also if I finally do hand over my $500 for PRO and they turn around and offer it for $99. Imma gonna want a 5 year subscription, no questions asked.

    So you see it's going to be hard for GS to change their prices.
  • capitalcarnagecapitalcarnage Posts: 371Member
    edited February 2012
    Looking at the numbers involved the pro licence costs about £333 in sterling, and the Apple dev licence is £66 (total £399) broken down over the 365 days in a year is about £1.09 a day which for a Hobby is pretty bloody good.

    For a hobbyist trying to make some extra money it basically boils down to 3 sales a day per month to break even, with a bonus of an extra £1 or two at the end of the year, If you app isn’t worth those 3 sales a day should it really be in the public forum?, and if nobody is buying it why is the PlayHaven ad an issue?.

    The cream will rise to the top,

    I also think I just talked myself into a pro upgrade.

    James
  • DoguzDoguz Posts: 500Member
    James, Can you talk to my wife?
  • capitalcarnagecapitalcarnage Posts: 371Member
    @doguz - Ok wives werent accounted for in my previous calculations, make her promite on toast for breakfast for a month, see if that works.
  • EireStudiosEireStudios Posts: 451Member
    @Doguz or simply tell your wife that this is a great investment and it may keep her in new shoes and handbags for a year if your games are good enough :)
  • GLGAMESGLGAMES SingaporePosts: 988Member
    Sorry but need to ask about the new kiip and playhaven registration when turning on the monetization in GS.
    I cannot fill in the phone number which is required. Are those feature only meant for US developers?
    i'm from singapore and i want to turn that feature on :(
  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,906Member
    edited February 2012
    +1000 @osucowboy18 well said. @tshirtbooth you get my vote. Although the Skype network is shaping up that way already.
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    Pro only forums would be nice ... I should prob get involved with the Skype network :)
This discussion has been closed.