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GameSalad 0.9.91 is here! Introducing Kiip, Playhaven and Custom Splash Screens for All!

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Comments

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member
    edited February 2012
    As osucowboy pointed out we at the Gleeson Group everyday have to compete with companies in our genre like Loud Crow. They have millions of investment capital and they represent children's authors like Sandra Boynton. When they launched their first app the secured a prime spot of a face to face announcement on Fox Business TV news. The funny thing our author Kate Gleeson was as popular as Sandra and in fact they knew each other well and Sandra was an admirer of Kate's work. I can tell you this, in our meetings we didn't cry or complain the topic was WE NEED TO BE BETTER! And how do we do that? Not oh poor us. So we are working on our next full scale interactive app and game and while Loud Crow has stayed static in their creative approach we are doing something different and out of the box as our sophomore project. This is how you face challenges and compete with the big guys.

    @beefy_clyro if you can stand me...lol my Skype name is same as my gamesalad name.
  • POMPOM Posts: 2,599Member
    Good morning all ;)
    Wow you guys talk a LOT during the night (well, my night at least) .
    Just to give my opinion on this matter, I really really really don't see how free users can complain at anything , it's free, so embrace it and all that comes with it .
    After all, if you are a free user, meaning you either testing to see if game making is for you, or you just do it as a hobby.. And for both reasons, I don't see how play heaven can hurt you.
    It can only benefit you in the long run, cause this feature will increase the income for gamesalad, so then they can make the software more awesome than it is now..
    And besides, in my opinion if you are seriouse about game making, and you don't consider it as a hobby, just go pro, in theory, you SHOULD be able to earn at least 500$ from selling your games, so this money will return itself anyway, (if you don't make 500$ in a full year something is terribly wrong with your games ;) )
    Also if you don't want this feature, just stay on 0.9.9 , simple as that , I just don't see any reason to complain about this .

    Cheers
    Roy.
  • Fabri DamazioFabri Damazio Posts: 97Member
    Why not a official thread about pro member area on forums?
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    I think the option should be to turn ON ads. Not off.
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    +500000 to TSB
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    Hey Dave .... I appreciate your points and your business experience and track record ... but let me put this situation another way ... those that might choose to question the value of this move from their own perspective and for GS's perspective are actually also following your advice which is to fight for everything you can get, question what they think is wrong, push for change and don't give up. Somewhere in GS's plans they thought/think allowing everyone to make games is a good idea ... thus the free tool. So although I get a free tool it must factor to GS that I have some value to them thus my use of it is of value (otherwise stupid to give it for free). IF this action is a money grab ... which they are certainly entitled to do ... it must also be considered if it has negative consequences. Would a starting gamer, with a great little catchy game, be derailed because a bunch of negative reviews stop that apps momentum, preventing being featured by Apple, preventing that app from showcasing what GS can do for the world? I never got the 'why is it free' business model in the first place and have repeatedly stated it should be $99 for basic (free to develop and play but not publish). A lot of people, and most Pros it would seem, appear against the free model, but GS must have a plan right? If their plan all along was to get as many hooked on as possible and then flip them to make them money through a program like this, then the ground has shifted under a number of people and they are rightly voicing their opinions. Let me make it clear: I AM A FREE USER. I"M NOT YET SURE IF THIS PLAYHAVEN IS GOOD OR BAD. I WANT TO PAY GS FOR BASIC. I hope they don't make a pro forum ... I like you guys input ... come-on it's not that bad on here :D
  • mtinglemtingle Posts: 41Member
    edited February 2012
    seen as how this update seriously affects the free user base PRO users should mind there own business on this topic. It doesn't affect them and they are mostly unempathic, patronising and sometimes outright rude to anyone with a free account. Get this PRO user, GS uses the free accounts as part of their business model. In other words if they thought they could make more money by loosing the free users they would. Q.E.D. the free users VERY much contribute to the money and success of this company. To treat the free users with derision and contempt is to destroy something that GS very much wants to develop and encourage. GS are NOT benevolent people who just like to give things for free. This is a standard business model.

    This is obviously how gamesalad wish to change their business model in the long term so saying 'just use 0.9.9 and stop winging' is rather short sighted as we have no idea how long GS will leave the 0.9.9 publishing option and we must conclude that in the not too distant future ALL publishing with a free account will have to use the ad option.

    Ideally the solution is to allow the free users to choose which form of startup screen they prefer, an ad or the GS logo.
  • megamoomegamoo Posts: 11PRO
    Having thought about this overnight since my earlier concerns in this thread and having ready every post, I have changed my view. For me personally I was always planning on shifting to Pro and now I think I most certainly will, sooner rather than later. As @captialcarnage points out the math is pretty simple, achievable and the old adage... "you have got to spend money, to make money" comes into play. This is especially clear when my game could be published to ipad, mac and of course android tablets (a third market not available to free users) and In App Purchase is near essential.

    However (here is comes) if I was joining GameSalad today, new to the world of game development as I did last June, would I be put off by adverts and the $500... probably! However my journey has been to discover that after all this effort it is worth committing financially to see a project though, im not sure new developers will see it that way now. So in the end, I'm ok... bit shocked as most were, but have come down to acceptance. Thank you to @SaladStraightShooter as for me the key element of my decision is the forums, and how we able to have a (heated) discussion which many other companies would silence.
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    Dear TSB ( @tshirtbooth )
    @LeonardDeveloper .. sure , but then don't hate on my for voicing mine
    Oh no! :) I didn't been it like that, I was just trying to voice my opinion, I respect your opinion in the highest ;) Your the one of the only people on here that knows the software more then creators of the software themselves ;)
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    @tshirtbooth
    Don't draw back to parallels!, Not even as a joke... Lets not confuse people here
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    Guys I know I'm going against a bit of what I said earlier here...
    But:
    ITS A FLIPPING TINY SPLASHSCREEN FROM WHAT ADVERTISES OTHER PEOPLES APPS ITS NOTHING!, THEY LET US BUILD AND PUBLISH APPS FOR FREE, FROM THE CONSUMERS POINT OF VIEW ITS JUST ANOTHER AD..... THEYRE NOT GOING TO REMOVE YOUR APP INSTANTLY....... PUT IT THIS WAY: FROM THE CONSUMERS POINT OF VIEW WE'RE NOT RELATED TO SOME OF THE "CRAPPS" (CRAP-APPS) THAT WERE COMING FROM THE GS CREATOR, NOW WE ALL LOOK INDEPENDENT AND THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING US FROM BECOMING BIG AND GREAT DEVELOPERS..... GET OVER IT... ITS A DAMN AD....
    And also @saladstraightshooter
    My suggestion to resolve some of this would be maybe a different pricing plan that let developers remove PH for maybe $90 a year or maybe even $120 a year...
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    @sandbird
    Soem points are true.... But lets keep things civil
    "And don't bash us freebies :P"
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    @sandbird
    It was said by sss that pricing rearrangements are in the pipeline...
    (I was talking about prices and stuff....)
    @LeonardDeveloper - honestly there are likely a thousand similar threads floating around - but you're more than welcome to open one if you have something new to add. It's on our radar.
  • POMPOM Posts: 2,599Member
    edited February 2012
    Hmmm sanbird, let's calm down shell we, it's not PROs vs NON PRO fight here , everyone has the rights to share their thoughts and so do you , but let's keep it civil.

    Roy.
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    @P-O-M
    Do you want to fight about it? :P :D :D :P
  • MotherHooseMotherHoose Posts: 2,456Member
    ah, but, some of the comments are biased against free members!

    Pro users would be the first to complain if GS reverted to the $2000/year for that membership!

    Free members have a right to complain that ads that also make money for 3rd-party PlayHaven (which contributes nothing of value to our projects)
    … those ads aren't wanted/shouldn't be in our releases.
    and, then to hear: you can pay $500/year to take that impediment to gamePlay out of your games!

    $500 places GS, in costs to developers, … higher than Unity, Corona, Shiva-3D, etc. (other programs that are out of beta!) …

    It is nice that Pro users have their Pro features … nice that they can skillfully, colorfully, repetitively encourage their customers to give them more money!
    cause money is what it is about in the Pro membership features

    @};- MH
  • JoeMeisterJoeMeister Posts: 602Member
    Just a suggestion.
    Make Pro available for $99.
    I think a lot of people will jump on that. Learn from Apple.
    Even with one or two crappy games you should make that amount back over the period of one year.
    I don't think a lot of us made $500 in a year, so few will take the risk of investing that much.
    Or, use an annual price increase. If the user sees some revenue in the first year then they want argue a higher price for the next year.
    $500 is just to much for some of us.
    To advertise other games is not an option. People don't want to see some Zombie game if they bought a game for their 5 year old.
    I got complains for my Mermaid Pinball game that is was to sexy.
    Do we have to rate our games differently at Apple cause there might be some scary Game Ad in the beginning? And how do we know what game
    GS will advertise? I see legal issues.
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    @sandbird ...

    "So please dont say that "its free"..its not free...we are advertising GS" - So did you or did you not pay anything for GS creator and or/to publish (except your Apple dev license)? If the answer is no, then regardless of what you are advertising, its still free I'm afraid.

    Another point on 'we are advertising GS' _ so currently you advertise 1 thing, well now GS wants that 1 advertisement to be Playhaven and not their splash. Seems fair, 1 for 1.

    "its free users that DEBUG gs" - Yeh because the pro's have never submitted any reports, filled out any bug reports, not just sent in the crash logs. Lets not forget the sous chef's and line cooks that actually beta test the releases as well and submit all their findings.

    "just go to the Crash report folder, delete the report and reopen GS, so nothing goes back to them. How is that ? Let the "good and wise" pro users do the work" - You'll only be slowing down the development of your free tool you use, not sure how you could consider that a wise move!

    "adding an add of another game before your game to make money is just plain slavery" - Drastic embellishment. No one is forcing you to create a game using the free model.

    "Still there is no Joints, custom polygon collisions, grids, group selections etc etc. If you see GS from a 3rd persons view, it has tons of behaviors and features to make money while the editing is like its 1992" - I agree here, having been a pro member whose subscription has just ran out, i will be renewing because i like only my splash screen and the url forwarding, i also want to port a few games to Android so for me, i'll be going pro again once paid at the end of the month. Having been a paid member and soon to be again, i really wish they would concentrate on features to make my games better, i appreciate using things like Playhaven can make them some revenue which keeps the lights on, I'm fine with that, i just wish that the majority of pro features wasn't about extra monetization.

    Anyway, i don't mean to start an argument with you and i wish for it not to be a personal thing. This isn't a Pro vs Free debate. Its about GS keeping their lights on and for them to be trying things like this show they aren't making enough from the Pro's alone! Ultimately what will be great for them is more game making features, joints, sprite sheets, better collisions, the dropping of lua, this will make a better tool which more devs will be interested in if the pro price reflects. I would have no problem with $500 a year if we had the extra features mentioned above, plus things like the ability to snap to grid, hide layers as thats a massive pain in the **** when working and you click on the top layer etc etc
    As it is, pro should be $250 a year max!
  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member
    @simo103 you make very intelligent points! So you'll appreciate this. From a business prospective one can assume GS has signed contracts with these vendors so they are now obligated to the ad function for the length of that contract. As we say in business you have to pick your battles. Having said that with that assumption of contractual obligations GS has no way to change the ad function, if that's the case you must accept that but what GS can control is what they charge for pro. So if it was me, my strategy would be to pressure them to adjust the pricing as this they can adjust without having contract issues. This is my point, to be effective one must understand business. As what would I pay to be pro, That issues goes to overhead vs revenue. If GS No longer fit our model as to productivity vs cost then we would seek out their competition as to the best cost vs productivity ratio. This would include contracting a coder. Business people face these challenges everyday. This isn't my first rodeo and all these kinds of questions I've faced in other ventures before. In the end it always comes down to the cost vs return models and being able to adjust as things ebb and flow.
  • SAZ_1SAZ_1 Posts: 397Member
    lol im away from the forums almost one evening and i miss a 7page thread! lol... personally its a good feature im not sure im going to implement it at all at the moment and the fact they let us publish free is great still... one question though if i used klip how do i stop it from showing up on versions of my game for the UK or anywhere other than the US?.. as in im in UK and i don't want a feature cropping up for the UK users if they cant use it .. does this mean we need to publish 2 versions of the game one for US and then the rest of the world?
  • 68kStudios68kStudios Posts: 219Member
    Well, i'm not very happy for this Playhaven stuff, but GS it's free, so I can't complain about it. They are not working for the glory, and I think that is fair.

    I would be happy to switch to the paid version, but I'm asking why, even in PRO version:
    - you cannot write tables
    - you cannot use expression in the first part of a rule
    - you cannot set a limit for text input

    and other "little" things that make using the software not very user friendly.
    Anyway, I probably buy the pro version soon, but please: before adding new stuff, fix the old ones.
    Thank you.
  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 10,376Member, Sous Chef
    edited February 2012
    guys, this is not the thread to talk about the cost of pro. this is about .9.91.

    plus, the reason they introduced play haven in free is because the free users are NOT contributing to their success. they never made any money off of you, and the unsell ratio of free to pro was extremely small. you want them to hire more people to fix the bugs in the creator, bring new features, but do it all on the shoestring budget of pro memberships?

    this is a good thing, as the only other option I could see for them is to do away with the free users and bring it back to $99, or make a single package only like other SDK's of like $200-300.
  • aarioaario Posts: 256Member, PRO
    +1 @jonmulcahy ..this is getting ridiculous
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    @fryingbaconstudios ... thanks ... if this discussion has the desired results that GS reviews their pricing structure and perhaps sets a basic price level (and/or drops price of Pro) then all this back and forth, Pro vs Free etc will have benefitted us all (and GS will benefit also I believe). And at least a small bit of gratitude might be set aside for us 'freebie whiners' because 'as they say in business' the 'squeaky wheel gets the oil'. GS, for their credit, have been responsive to previous feedback on issues and thus rather than being quiet and accepting of change .. a good business strategy (and a good business person) should always speak out and push for what they want and think is best for their business.
  • mtinglemtingle Posts: 41Member
    @jonmulcahy actually as the 0.9.91 update has to do with monetizing options and directly affects users on this subject it seems more than appropriate to address issues of monetizing in this thread. GS will read this thread and see the opinions of the users and their suggests for solutions to the issues raised by the .9.91 update. Better to see them here in context rather than scattered over a multitude of never-to-be-seen threads on pricing.

    GS is not a philanthropic company therefore they DO gain from the Free user base, it's their business strategy. Please stop stating that Free users don't do anything for GS this is plainly false.
  • simo103simo103 Posts: 1,331Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    @mtingle ... +1 ... as an example of a free user (myself) ... I have put six people directly onto GS in the last 2 months, I have 12 kids in a school lunchtime app club starting the app making process using GS and I plan on buying PRO at some time in the future. At $500 a year with say a 5 year re-signup thats likely to be $3000 from me alone in future potential earnings. That's more than I will pay any other software company and probably about as much as I will give Apple assuming a computer upgrade, iPad upgrade etc ... so I think this 'Free' user has some value to GS .... also we free users buy a lot of Pro templates and resources helping Pros sustain their business and remain Pro .. just sayin' ..
  • SAZ_1SAZ_1 Posts: 397Member
    i don't understand why a lot of people are complaining about the pricing, its competitive to its rival SDK's, corona you have to pay $349 to publish on both platforms, and you have to code everything yourself (not the simplistic drag drop we have here)... part of me is inclined to be like dont change your price plan at all ... your getting your moneys worth for what the tools offer you.. now going back on topic does anybody know the answer to my previous question?? any sous.. how do you implement klip with an app if it doesnt work internationally?
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    edited February 2012
    FOR ALL THOSE WANTING TO TALK ABOUT PRO PRICING CHANGES OR SUGGESTIONS REFER TO THIS THREAD NOT HERE!
    ----------
    If sous's can still merge threads If you be so kind to merge the thread above with this thread: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/39211/gs-pricing-redo-copyright-infringement-prevention/p2 and keep the name of the two threads merged as "pro-pricing-suggestions-round-2"
    (Just taging A few sous's that seem to be online... @jonmulcahy
    ---
    @saladstraightshooter
    Can you please merge the to threads above so users will have a place to go talk about prices and not spam up this thread)
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @mtingle - Jonmulcahy actually makes a valid point - and one I made earlier in the thread. There was no revenue gain from basic users. If anything - and I'm sure several folks will agree - GameSalad's reputation was tarnished due to multiple folks using GameSalad to defraud, publish templates, and publish apps of poor quality. To answer this concern - from both Pro and Basic users - we offer this model instead. We provided a previously Pro-only feature - a branding option that defines your studio and game - in exchange for a single ad at the start of the application.

    A simple, "Made with GameSalad" splash screen doesn't make a penny, I'm afraid. Does it steer users over to GameSalad? It can be argued that it can - but to assume those users immediately purchase a Pro membership or have any intention to give back to the community is not feasible. If you are seeing something that we are not, please elaborate. But those are the facts.

    I will say this again - GameSalad is development for everyone. We offer our basic toolset - an incredibly powerful tool, I might add - for free, for your use, to make money. You make an award winning app in the basic creator and we're glad for it and happy you were able to utilize our tools for your own success. The cost of this to you? An Apple developer certificate, which is a requirement for any Apple based developers and unassociated with GameSalad completely. There are no other costs to you involved.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

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