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Introducing iOS Universal Binaries

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Comments

  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    @capitalcarnage unfortunately there is still a big market for used non retina iPhones and even a bigger one for non retina iPod Touches. And as for non retina iPads Apple is still officially selling them in the form of the iPad 2 and iPad Mini. So it would be counterproductive to stop supporting them.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @MarkontheIron - I'll have more information on this later. The short of it, however, is that iOS and Apple as a whole are moving to favor the newer devices and quickly deprecating the old. iOS 5 and 6 will be the norm, which eliminates support for old devices.

    If you're designing for Retina you cannot realistically expect it to translate, without a hitch, to an older device.

    If you're worried that someone will pan your app because you designed it for Retina and it won't work on older devices, then say so in your product description. How you design, and what devices you design for, is in your hands.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    @SaladStraightShooter I understand your point of view, however it was really mean to hide it behind a cool gif :)

    On a serious note I now that Apple is dropping support on old devices to favor the buying of new devices, but that will only increase the market for used old devices and thus they will still be used a lot. So it's a little premature for us game developers to not support them.

  • wpatenwpaten Posts: 281Member, PRO

    @MarkontheIron - I'll have more information on this later. The short of it, however, is that iOS and Apple as a whole are moving to favor the newer devices and quickly deprecating the old. iOS 5 and 6 will be the norm, which eliminates support for old devices.

    If you're designing for Retina you cannot realistically expect it to translate, without a hitch, to an older device.

    If you're worried that someone will pan your app because you designed it for Retina and it won't work on older devices, then say so in your product description. How you design, and what devices you design for, is in your hands.

    Which is why we choose to NOT support the larger resolution for ipads at this time. For the time being they are the odd man out. It's better to go with the masses and as things shift, start to incorporate them into the fold.

    That's obviously not how the big boys do things, but that's a decision we chose for the direction we wanted to go. Path of least resistance.
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @Wpaten - and the door is still 100% open for you to do that. Going with the masses will mean finding a happy median between old devices and retina resolution, with as little quality loss as possible.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus


    On a serious note I now that Apple is dropping support on old devices to favor the buying of new devices, but that will only increase the market for used old devices and thus they will still be used a lot. So it's a little premature for us game developers to not support them.

    Well, yes and no - Apple does force deprecations all the time. They have made it clear Retina is their future. Current trends and corresponding data support this - more people are using Retina now than older devices.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • wpatenwpaten Posts: 281Member, PRO

    @Wpaten - and the door is still 100% open for you to do that. Going with the masses will mean finding a happy median between old devices and retina resolution, with as little quality loss as possible.

    Agreed.

    For me personally I love the Universal option GS came up with. It fits my current design structure like a glove. Compared to how the typical Universal app is created this is FAR more efficient on final file size. Doing this in Corona or Stencyl would require you to create a specific set of images for each device you wanted to target. With GS's option, I still only have to worry about 1 set of images.
  • patapplepatapple Posts: 873Member
    Can we for example create a rule at the beginning of the game to check what are the sizes of the screen and then change the scene to the correct one (ipad scenes and iphone scenes)? I just tried my iPad retina game on the iPhone 5 and it cuts a big portion of the screen! Any idea?
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @patapple - use the same design practices you used for overscanning/resolution independence and test, test, test.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • Braydon_SFXBraydon_SFX Posts: 9,079Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy Sidekick GameSalad Employee
    edited January 2013
    Don't forget we have a tutorial for over scanning. You could watch it while waiting for our UB tutorial.

    http://gshelper.com/?p=1700
  • patapplepatapple Posts: 873Member
    @SaladStraightShooter Never used overscanning so far, it crops too much
  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @patapple - then UB's may not be right for you, since that's what they rely on to translate to various devices.

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    Could it not be made that it does the following;

    NOW if you want to build a UB game, since you will surely target also retina iPads, you will use a 1024x1024px image on a 512x512px actor. Using Resolution Independence will create as always downsized set of images that will result in retina iPads to use the 1024x1024px image, non retina iPads and retina iPhones to use the 512x512px image. And so far it's good but the problem is that non retina iPhones will also use the 512x512px image instead of the much more efficient 256x256px image.

    So the non-retina iPhones would create a 3rd set of images at 4x as small and uses the optimum size needed? That way it covers all bases!

    @MarkOnTheIron @SaladStraightShooter
  • creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
    really appreciate for update. Good luck for future updates.
  • patapplepatapple Posts: 873Member
    @Braydon_SFX Already watched it :)
    I think overscanning is useful if you are building a game with camera and larger screen. My current game is only in the main scene (1024x768) so this isn't useful. Also overscanning isn't useful in my case thought. (Correct me if I am wrong)
  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    @beefy_clyro That's the problem so far there's no 3rd set of images for non retina iPhones, and from what SSS said apparently they're not planning on adding it.

    So, if we want to support non retina iPhones then we can't use Universal Binaries and will have to resort to the good ol' separate builds.

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    So... essentially the concern is for loss of business over the iPad 1&2's, and the iPhone 3?

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    @SaladStraightShooter I can't talk for others, but for me yes. I would prefer to wait a little before abandoning support those devices.

  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    @SaladStraightShooter Essentially yes! At the moment I am supporting them, a universal build should be just that, universal. Currently its not, its restricted, I personally feel that the devs should add in this 3rd set of images to cater for the non-retina devices. That way it would truly be a universal build and im assuming with the foundations laid and it just being a binary upgrade, not that hard too add it in.
  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 10,376Member, Sous Chef
    this is awesome. I've been spending my time doing artwork in my freetime waiting for this so I could design the game from the ground up supporting UBs.

    very very cool.
  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    edited January 2013
    @SaladStraightShooter About the 3rd set of images (but this applies also for the 2nd).

    SSS: So you're saying that now we have strain our servers to produce also a 3rd set of images?

    Me: No need for that, I will gladly take upon myself the cumbersome task of resizing the images if you give us the ability to import images for all various sets. I will also prefer this kind of option because sometimes the resizing algorithm your servers use may not be functional for my needs and there are also cases where the resized smaller images has a bigger size than the original. So I prefer to do the resizing myself.



  • 921creative921creative Posts: 140Member, PRO

    So... essentially the concern is for loss of business over the iPad 1&2's, and the iPhone 3?

    Good point. I hung onto the belief that every device has to be supported, but now I'm looking to the future and excited to support newer, faster devices. There are millions upon millions of devices running iOS 5 & 6. I'm not too worried about losing any business.
  • SingleSparqSingleSparq Posts: 1,339Member
    Although I'm all for getting rid of old technology for the new, I think it should not be under estimated how much older devices there are. It seems because newer devices come out so quickly the old ones are not trashed but passed down.

    My wife has my gen1 iPad, my daughter ipad mini, me ipad4 and also an iPhone4 and 4s.

    It's easier for consumers to justify an upgrade when you pass on the older technology but that also means those consumers are out there.

    Still I like to think devices have the same lifespan as a nexus replicant. 4years.

    Member since November 2009 :D
    Twitter: @SingleSparq Web: www.singlesparq.com

  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member
    edited January 2013

    Still I like to think devices have the same lifespan as a nexus replicant. 4years.

    Better be precise about it, you're talking about a Nexus-6 replicant. The Nexus-7 is rumored to have an endless lifespan ;)

  • dugisthekingdugistheking Posts: 83Member
    Hi all . Question - can I just use my existing iPhone retina project and generate as a UB ? If so I would do this with letter I. As in the past over scanning has cut too much for me. Does anyone know of this will work ? Will the result be just a stretched version on iPad ( like the x2 mode ) ? Great job GS !
  • SingleSparqSingleSparq Posts: 1,339Member
    edited January 2013
    @MarkOnTheIron Well if our gonna be a Pris about it I may go Batty. :D

    Member since November 2009 :D
    Twitter: @SingleSparq Web: www.singlesparq.com

  • JamieOneilJamieOneil Posts: 877Member
    This is going to be so useful!
  • SingleSparqSingleSparq Posts: 1,339Member
    edited January 2013
    @JaxelStudios No - see my link to other discussion cause I initially tried that. From my two screen shots you will see the screen cuts off extensively.

    I made a copy of my project then changed it to the iPad setting I wanted and proceed to adjust actor positions, art and camera where necessary. There's work involved but at least now you can start a project as iPad without worrying about iPhone (other than testing and making sure all fits)

    Hi all . Question - can I just use my existing iPhone retina project and generate as a UB ? If so I would do this with letter I. As in the past over scanning has cut too much for me. Does anyone know of this will work ? Will the result be just a stretched version on iPad ( like the x2 mode ) ? Great job GS !

    Member since November 2009 :D
    Twitter: @SingleSparq Web: www.singlesparq.com

  • richcoyrichcoy Posts: 211Member
    Please forgive my ignorance but I'm starting a new project today and want to make sure I set this up right.

    If I want to end up with a UB that handles Retina iPad all the way down to iPhone 4 I should start with an iPad project with Resolution Independence turned on. Correct? Then I simply need to follow the camera resizing rules we previously used to handle the difference between iPhone 4 and iPhone 5?

    Rich

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,081Member, Chef Emeritus
    @richcoy - correct!

    Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.

This discussion has been closed.