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Why did GameSalad choose Mobclix?

8BitAvrin8BitAvrin Posts: 361Member, PRO
edited April 2013 in Working with GS (Mac)
Ok I like GameSalad, but I'm confused as to why they chose Mobclix for the Android ad feature? Were any other ad services considered? I've only read negative things about Mobclix. They currently owe over $450,000 to developers and there's a class action lawsuit against them(http://www.iwebss.com/iphone-ipad/478-class-action-suit-possible-against-mobclix-not-paying-indie-developers). They seem to be avoiding this important issue of late & non-payments. The stock of the company that bought them, Velti, hasn't been doing very well either.....

There's also a huge thread on the nonpayment issue here; http://iphonedevsdk.com/forum/business-legal-app-store/105160-mobclix-payments-so-late-this-month-p38.html

On the State of GameSalad and 10.2 release post I didn't see any mention of adding another Android ad partner/affiliate. So....is Mobclix the only ad company in the pipeline for Android and Apple from GameSalad?

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Answers

  • gameviccigamevicci Posts: 294Member, PRO
    Very interesting question, some Chef?
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    I would like this answered too. I suspect they added Mobclix because it works for both android and apple. It has a good fill rate and a good ecpm too.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • CodeWizardCodeWizard Posts: 1,143Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee
    Not sure of the decision as it was made before I came on. My guess is that it was a good deal from our point of view business wise.
  • ElfizmElfizm Posts: 489Member
    Mobclix is a great tool, it gives us, developers a large range of options and data to mess with, it's for both android and iOS, you can choose the time frame per ad, you can choose which ad networks. And you won't get paid, which sort of makes it useless, just like playhaven.

    I think at the time of Mobclix being into GS it was looking as it was going to get back on track and if that happen to be the case then we would be in the gold mine.

    But it didn't, or either Mobclix struck a deal with GS to give them half of our money instead of paying us, which is not happening, back me up here guys,.

    So now they are in several lawsuits, which I have been following since the announcement of Mobclix.
    So it's going down and hundreds see no hope for it.

    So why GS choose Mobclix is one of the smartest things they could have done. It just didn't work out the way anyone has planned. So I hope that they are busy working on ways to implant admob ect because we still have nothing for android as promised.

    Elfizm

  • TinpotTinpot Posts: 54Member
    @8bitAvrin It does look like the payment problem may all come to an end now mobclix parent company Velti has had a good portion of shares bought by some equity firms, raising some much needed funds to pay down some debt.

    http://investors.velti.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=757779

    Fingers crossed this benifits everyone being paid by mobclix.
  • pinkio75pinkio75 Posts: 859Member, PRO
    I never liked this advertising service and i haven't used it,
    but reading this about mobclix i don't think that i will never use!
  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,598Member, PRO
    interesting...
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @SaladStraightShooter
    I see a number of errors here and a complaint or two. For one, Mobclix has had a reputation for not paying for a number of years, and is still facing the problem. They have not fixed it. See this link to a thread about the problems. It's literally updated daily and people are still experiencing problems. It has almost a million views. http://iphonedevsdk.com/forum/business-legal-app-store/105160-mobclix-payments-so-late-this-month.html

    Also, GS has a bit of greed. Yes, they don't take any of our PlayHaven ad money, but they do interfere by taking part of PlayHaven's. PlayHaven is a business and they have a right to what they earn. I feel like GS is leveraging OUR games as theirs to earn a profit. They are greedy because instead of implementing the ad solutions we (the paying customers) need, they are only trying to make more money off us. And in the process provide a complete lack of reporting and occasionally incorrect payments. All this would be solved in we could directly work with PlayHaven like we now do with mobclix. But no, GS has to be a middleman and complicate the process.

    Adopting mobclix is not a bad choice. It's a good one. We just need more choices! I don't think adding more options is ever a bad thing. It should be up to the developer to decide which monetization service to use. GS should implement a dozen of them, and let us choose which service to use.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member
    edited April 2013
    poisenden said:

    @SaladStraightShooter
    I see a number of errors here and a complaint or two. For one, Mobclix has had a reputation for not paying for a number of years, and is still facing the problem. They have not fixed it. See this link to a thread about the problems. It's literally updated daily and people are still experiencing problems. It has almost a million views. http://iphonedevsdk.com/forum/business-legal-app-store/105160-mobclix-payments-so-late-this-month.html

    Also, GS has a bit of greed. Yes, they don't take any of our PlayHaven ad money, but they do interfere by taking part of PlayHaven's. PlayHaven is a business and they have a right to what they earn. I feel like GS is leveraging OUR games as theirs to earn a profit. They are greedy because instead of implementing the ad solutions we (the paying customers) need, they are only trying to make more money off us. And in the process provide a complete lack of reporting and occasionally incorrect payments. All this would be solved in we could directly work with PlayHaven like we now do with mobclix. But no, GS has to be a middleman and complicate the process.

    Adopting mobclix is not a bad choice. It's a good one. We just need more choices! I don't think adding more options is ever a bad thing. It should be up to the developer to decide which monetization service to use. GS should implement a dozen of them, and let us choose which service to use.

    Just my 2 cents.


    I'm going to clarify what @poisenden said about GS's "bit of greed". What is happening is that GS is the middleman, as in the person that pays us. Since it must go through them BEFORE we get the money, revenue stops regardless of the ads being displayed.


    Say you make an app with playhaven support, and you buy a year of pro. For the next 12 months, GS will pay you the money they get from playhaven...BUT when your 12 months end (and you don't renew), they still get revenue from playhaven from the ads in your app which (presumably) is kept for themselves.

    I don't know if this setup was voluntary to get people to renew pro/make money out of people that didn't renew, or if it was necessary to get playhaven working. Since I don't work for GS, I'm not going to comment on this :)

    Chakku
  • osucowboy18osucowboy18 Posts: 1,307Member
    I know Mobclix and their parent company have had some issues, but has anyone here actually implemented their network into any of your games yet? I'd be curious to at least see if this ad solution is profitable. Of course if you don't get paid, then what profit are you actually seeing. However, it seems like some improvements are being made on the Mobclix side of things, but only time will tell.

    In order for us (and GameSalad) to determine if this was a good choice in an ad partner, we need to evaluate the reports Pro Members are receiving from the implementation of this network. This will further help other Pro developers like myself decide whether it is even worth the risk of delayed payments based on the numbers others are seeing.

    - Alex
  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,598Member, PRO
    I look at it this way. I made no money from ads on my Android apps before Mobclix so I am willing to try them out. If I do not get paid or they go bust I will ditch them.

    It is easy for me to say this before I make any decent amounts from Mobclix. I will not switch my iAds apps to Mobclix however until I am happy with the service.
  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member
    edited April 2013
    @SaladStraightShooter
    I hate to be the one to point this out, but I'm sure many people are thinking of this.

    If you aren't Pro, then you're not entitled to revenue from a Pro feature

    With iAds and MobClix, you can continue to collect revenue AFTER your pro membership expires, since you are paid by Apple/Mobclix; for playhaven (apparently the most profitable ad service available), you are paid through GS meaning you won't be paid after your pro account expires. What @poisenden is labeling as greed is that what happens to playhaven rev. after the pro account expires; why is it setup this way to force us to renew GS pro? :/

    Chakku
  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member
    edited April 2013
    Yep @uptimistik, I do see what you mean. What poisenden was saying is that it's possible to get revenue from iAds after pro, if you keep the same binary and continue to renew your dev membership and the same with mobclix. So this seems like a business decision. Nothing too wrong with that, I just guess some people like poisenden feel it wrong.

    Chakku

    By the way, this is http://gamesalad.org ;)
  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member


    Moblix and iAds are both handled through their respective companies... we only pass your ID to them. Once you sign up for iAds or Mobclix, your contract is with them and we are hands-off - meaning any disputes or complaints you have are also aimed at them. That's why you'd still receive revenue while the app remained in the store... but since you'd no longer be Pro, you'd be unable to update the app.

    Thanks for this paragraph; I think this clears all this up.

    Chakku
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @SaladStraightShooter It's still a play at making you renew GS yearly. I'm just saying that while GameSalad is a business, they are already making $300 a year off us. Why not just give us features we need without having to interfere? If we could go directly to PlayHaven without GameSalad being involved, everyone would be happy. The developers get accurate accounting, reporting, and timely payments. GameSalad doesn't have to hire additional accountants to do the work of processing payments, and PlayHaven get's their full share and can roll out features without months of waiting for GameSalad to integrate them. Don't you agree? Adding mobclix was a step forward, but I can't see why chart boost and admob can't be integrated the same way.

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  • RUPASRUPAS Posts: 823Member
    @SaladStraightShooter @CodeWizard

    the best and easiest, would give us the opportunity to integrate code on our own, and we choose what we want to integrate system ads in our games. We want to be free with our games! xD
  • RUPASRUPAS Posts: 823Member
    I really I have no problem, but if elected I would like to be able to advertising system I choose. In general terms I'm happy with GameSalad
  • ElfizmElfizm Posts: 489Member
    Definitely agree, @uptimistik
    GS is and has always been moving forward. Although you may not be happy with certain parts or features that they have added. The overall aspect is BENIFITING everyone.

    You now have three options for ads revenue. No one is making you use Mobclix. Good Job @SaladStraightShooter for continue to answer repeated questions even when being accused of taking money.
  • 8BitAvrin8BitAvrin Posts: 361Member, PRO
    edited April 2013
    Hey @SaladStraightShooter so is Mobclix the only ad platform in the current pipeline for GameSalad? It looks like the current strategy of GS is to focus on engine improvements, which is great, but I'm just wondering. Also, I've never accused GameSalad of shenanigans, I don't think you were referring to me when you said that though. I've never even used PlayHaven.

    Also, if anybody uses Mobclix and actually gets paid, please make a post about it or reply on this one. I'm interested in using them, but I don't want to incorporate something in my apps that's only benefiting one party.

    WebsiteTwitter ∞ My apps are available on: Apple iOS App StoreGoogle Play App StoreAmazon App Store

  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member
    8BitAvrin said:

    I've never accused GameSalad of shenanigans, I don't think you were referring to me when you said that though.

    To clear up any doubt, neither have I. I was curious as to why GS setup such an odd way of playhaven reporting, but I got a good answer to that. The accusations of GS taking a piece of the pie was from somebody else.

    Chakku
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    Why do you have to negotiate? Why can't you just build a plugin for it similar to mobclix? I doubt they would be opposed to more impressions of their ads. As long as GS isn't negotiating for a revenue share, they should be open to it. This is just my opinion because it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be open too "negotiating" if they wouldn't have to do anything.

    How is the model for Admob not compatible? It seems very straightforward. Simply integrate the code and leave the rest with Admob. If I were part of the GS team, I would really push for more integrations similar to mobclix. GS doesn't need to deal with any of the money, just the behavior for implementing it. People have latched onto it because of 3 reasons
    A: It has a great fill rate
    B: It works worldwide
    C: It pays on time

    I'm not that familiar with contract negotiations, but then again, why do you need negotiations? Do you negotiate with Apple or Google if you support their platform? If you want to add an ad network, what do you need to do? What kind of contract are you negotiating? The right to include a plugin in your engine? I'm sure any ad company would jump all over the opportunity for more traffic, especially if all the money flows through them.

    For the play haven - It makes sense that they want you to foot the bill for the accounting, because you're taking a percentage! If you let the GS accounts be directly via PlayHaven, GS wouldn't have this problem.

    @Poisenden - because currently chart boost won't negotiate and Admob isn't and never will be a viable solo option for GameSalad - business-wise their model isn't compatible with ours. It's a brand name people have latched onto... that's about it. We can't always simply grab a revenue model out of thin air - weeks or months of contract negotiations can and do take place. Costs quickly skyrocket - and often there is never an adequate resolution for both parties.

    Comparatively, $300 is one of the lowest license costs in the industry, as an aside. But it's still a license period of a year.

    A bit of key information:

    Playhaven was the party who chose to have the system modeled in this way... not GameSalad. Likely because of the influx in accounting on their side of the fence for thousands of new accounts potentially - they wanted us to foot that bill. Playhaven, after costs, isn't profitable for GameSalad... so put any ideas of riches we appear to be hoarding to bed.


    That's all I've got to say on the subject. It is what it is - Business.

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  • FallacyStudiosFallacyStudios Posts: 970Member
    edited May 2013
    @8BitArvin @poisenden @uptimistik

    @SSS No offense, but that is pretty bogus. The issues with Mobclix are not all prior to them being bought by Velti. The problems got WORSE after they were bought up by Velti. I'm going to repeat this so it is nice and clear for everyone:

    MOBCLIX DOES ***NOT*** PAY!!!

    I have been using them for over a year now. They have paid out a few times and starting out they paid out fine for a little bit. Mid last year payments stopped. They stopped paying and I didn't see ANYTHING for 6 months. Their June, July, and August payments (meaning they were supposed to pay those out that month) did not get paid until November/December for SOME developers. They caught me up during those months even though it was 6 months late. I thought that was the end of it. NOPE. Payments were on time for a couple months and then back in March all payments ceased AGAIN. They haven't paid me in ANOTHER 3 months going on 4. At this current rate their actual payment cycle is more like a NET180-360.

    There are many developers still experiencing a lack of payment. Those owed higher amounts have been owed since August! They are still owed since then. We are fast approaching an ENTIRE YEAR of NO payments for those devs. How is that not bs?

    What is Mobclix response in all this? "We are issuing out August payments in batches. You should hopefully see your payment in a week". What I wonder is what does a week mean to Mobclix? They have been using that SAME excuse for 5 MONTHS now! Not to mention that is the response I get when I ask where my March, April, and May payments are! I'm not asking about August as that should have ALREADY been paid out!

    Look I very much appreciate GS trying to integrate a new ad network. Very commendable. Excellent integration as far as I can tell, but you guys got fooled like all the devs out there. Mobclix's green pastures are actually a decimated swamp land of no payments. I don't know if they are paying to keep you guys, but for the SAKE of your developers and your community PLEASE please please integrate a different ad network. Mobclix needs all of their developers to leave because that company needs to eat sh*t.

    Business wise it may have made sense for you if they are paying you, but Consumer wise you are hanging ALL GS developers out to dry. All your devs... don't expect to see payments, but maybe twice a year if you are lucky. So by no means ever count on your payments to come through if you are depending on them!

    Now rather than sit here and just explain why Mobclix is bad how about I offer you alternatives. Other alternative networks that I have experienced or have heard good things about:

    Tapit, smaato, Mobfox, Leadbolt, Revmob, and adMob <<<< All have both iOS and Android. They are all easily integrated and by having Mobclix integrated I KNOW you guys can easily apply the same set up to any of these other networks for quick integration. Come on, please don't hang developers out to dry to make a quick buck. I'm sure you can get one of these other ad networks to pay you whatever Mobclix is. Even if you don't want to remove Mobclix just integrate an alternative so we have the option not to go with those who don't pay.

    Honestly, by forcing GS developers with the only option of Mobclix all you are doing is feeding their lack of payment. These GS devs are working their asses off to produce quality games. They release them free thinking they will get revenue from Mobclix to no avail. They watch as their hard work makes Mobclix rich, because they sell their adspace and never pay the developer for giving them ads. Don't be corrupt like Mobclix. Stand up for your devs and kick Mobclix to the curb. Don't support unethical companies!!!!!!!!!
  • FallacyStudiosFallacyStudios Posts: 970Member

    @poisenden and @RUPAS come on guys, it's a good business decision for them. Leave it at that and move on. We make money, they make money. Nobody's hurt.

    Developers get hurt, that's who. I promise you, lack of payment when it is something you are depending on hurts devs. When you are EXPECTING payments after 90 days and month after month it doesn't show and keeps stacking, does that not hurt you.

    If you had an employer and you were supposed to receive your paycheck at the end of 90 days and every month there after from the previous 90 days, yet your boss never pays you, would you not be pissed? Would you not need that money, or would you keep working for free thinking "ohh well they will pay me eventually maybe someday."

  • TheSkinTheSkin Posts: 74Member
    edited May 2013
    In Mobclix FAQ (http://www.mobclix.com/faqs.html#faqs-3), I read this:

    Q: What are the payment terms for iAd, AdMob & Millennial?
    A: Though you are using our SDK to control these 3 networks, please understand that they will pay you directly..

    Then I suppose:
    1 - I open a contract with AdMob and/or Millenial
    2 - I use Mobclix behavior to display the banner of AdMob and/or Millenial.
    3 - AdMob and Millenian pay me directly without the delay of Mobclix

    What do you think? can it work?
  • FallacyStudiosFallacyStudios Posts: 970Member
    @TheSkin You can give it a shot. I have heard from many other developers that when they started feeding all their ads to those other networks because Mobclix wouldn't pay... they basically shut those down and they stopped serving ads over to those other networks. No harm in trying I suppose.
  • FallacyStudiosFallacyStudios Posts: 970Member
    edited May 2013
    Does GS use the packages and code they provide to other developers or do they give you a special package to implement?

    Like I said, I get that you guys are making money from integrating certain networks. I just really wish a bit more investigation had gone in before choosing Mobclix. Almost any other network does not have the problems dev see here with Mobclix.

    Its not just "some" negative feedback. There is a lot. Just go on Google and type in "mobclix payments" or something similar and you will see forums, websites, twitters, facebook pages and the like with ranting developers that aren't getting paid. It is not just a tiny little group. There are a lot of developers not getting paid. If they are as far as much as 9 months behind on payments, how do you think they are going to get caught up on payments? If you were 9 months behind on bills, could you pull that kind of cash out of your butt to pay them? We are talking about a company that is behind millions. How do you remedy this? Keep stiffing developers to pay other developers (ie those who make most your money to make sure they stay). This isn't a situation they can just remedy in a matter of months. Lack of payment is inevitable with them for months if not years to come.

    Regardless of what I say I doubt you guys would drop them. You will start to see devs ranting in these forums when they watch payment cycles come and go with nothing coming in. I HIGHLY suggest you guys start looking elsewhere now since it takes as long as you guys suggest. You are far better off to be prepared to make the switch than to realize a couple months from now that everything I've been saying about them is true and start working on it then.

    Although new, this is the new site the developers started setting up in their campaign against Mobclix lack of payment. http://www.mobclix-pay.us/
  • BoomshackBarryBoomshackBarry Posts: 712Member
    @actswartz that's encouraging, it sounds like the same idea that @TheSkin was alluding to earlier in this thread. If that's the case is there a reason you've chosen to work with BuzzCity rather than one of the other providers, seeing as you've stated BuzzCity offers a low eCPM? Thanks.

    Why not check out my development blog?

  • Peter_OlafsonPeter_Olafson Posts: 301Member
    Remove mine too now. It makes no sense on its own. Mmmmm, spam.
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