Introducing Graphene SDK...

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  • MalkovichMalkovich Member, PRO Posts: 116

    I think I have too many questions to write at this time , but I have one that has me very worried.
    What Graphene offer to me regarding other programs to make games?, I think all people who develop games know that there are excellent programs out there that are much more complete, solid and with very professional features that Gamesalad not have. But at least I chose GameSalad for its simplicity and ease of use and do not need knowledge of code. Graphene will offer the same experience that gives GameSalad ? or will be another program for using code?

    I'm not afraid to learn code, i always want to learn more, but that's not the reason why i chose Gamesalad.

    Well anyway I am so excited and anxious to know all the new functions and features that will offer us this new program. Only time will tell. Thank you very much GameSalad team.

  • Hope they provide proper support for GS, as I was hurt to hear that new engine is in work just after buying pro member. Hope they make GS stable ...

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaMember Posts: 1,390
    edited December 2014

    @Braydon_SFX said:
    I finally get to change my pants now!

    Phew! I'm so glad. It was drifting around the globe on the stratosphere like Fukushima fallout. :s

  • HymloeHymloe Member Posts: 1,651
    edited December 2014

    I definitely worry that my long term game projects that have gotten more and more crashy in Game Salad will be left high and dry, and this Graphene comes in and takes up all GS' time, and Game Salad becomes a largely forgotten legacy piece of software.

    I worry my games I've put years into will never get released now.

    I'm assuming they won't be able to be converted across to Graphene. And I don't think I have the patience or faith in a whole new system from the GS team.

    Game Salad is currently left in a bit of a limbo where you need XCode 6 to build the latest GS Viewer, but XCode 6 needs OSX 10.9.3 or above. But Yosemite itself is free, but doesn't seem to work properly with Game Salad Creator.

    So it's all pretty busted for me. I can't test the latest GS, which doesn't seem to have hit a stable status in some months.

    Keen to check out the new Render Engine (when it's working fully), and memory savings (when they're working properly), and then need to deal with the Yosemite / XCode issue, somehow, I'm really not sure how, and even then my game project might still be crashing as it has for the past 6 - 12 months.

    I worry that Graphene simply spells the end of the line for me - my grand departure - and without getting a chance to release my big long term game I was making in Game Salad.

    Here's hoping that Game Salad will be left in a stable state soon, where my game actually runs properly in it, with no memory leaks or crashes. Then I could at least ship my game, and say a happy farewell to the Game Salad era.

    Q: Is there any way to build the latest GS Viewer in older versions of XCode? (I want to keep using OSX 10.8.5, the best version known to date).

    Q: When will the newest versions of Game Salad Creator work fully with Yosemite?

    Q: When will the latest versions of Game Salad Creator work smoothly, with good memory performance?

    Q: Will Graphene be in any way, at all, compatible with Game Salad projects?

  • HymloeHymloe Member Posts: 1,651
    edited December 2014

    @Nabbo said:
    Hope they provide proper support for GS, as I was hurt to hear that new engine is in work just after buying pro member. Hope they make GS stable ...

    I would feel a bit strange if I'd bought Pro now.

    It feels like Game Salad Creator is going through some transitions at the moment, and still trying to find it's feet, with issues still getting sorted out with the new renderer, memory issues, and compatibility with Yosemite and such.

    I've spent the past 4 days trying to figure out HOW to even get my hands on the latest version to try it out. I don't have the right combination of computers to even use it. Basically, you need one Mac with OSX 10.9.3 or 10.10 on it so you can build the GS Viewer in XCode 6, and another computer with 10.8.5 on it to actually use the Game Salad Creator. I don't have any computers with an OSX above 10.8.5 (I used to, but I specifically downgraded to 10.8.5 purely because GS Creator didn't work properly in Yosemite)... so I can't use the new version of Game Salad Creator, so I'm really floating in a grey area here...

    At least one of my projects is still working fine in GS Creator 0.11.0.13, which is the version I'm still using. But my other project has been crashing out during scene changes in the various versions of GS for almost a year.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Member Posts: 9,914

    I wouldn't expect Graphene to be out anytime in the near future as it's only in alpha. It could be 6 months or more before it might be ready for prime time that coupled with GS still supporting creator you're talking over a year or more before one needs to make any real choices about the software.

  • LumpAppsLumpApps Member Posts: 2,878

    I'm confused... I really don't get it. Maybe time will tell.

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaMember Posts: 1,390

    @BlackCloakGS‌ and @dgackey‌

    @crestwoodgames said:

    Sometimes starting from scratch is easier and faster than trying to overhaul a program. Sure we might get a cool new features here and there with the current creator, but what about the issues that have been around for years.

    No one has forced me to pay for pro. I knew the limitations with GS when I bought it. I have looked at other drag and drop programs. They all have issues. I believe we have the best community, and the GS team keeps us up to date.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I have been involved in graphic design, animation, video production and a little programming for over 30 years now. Complex software can not be patched and tweaked indefinitely. Hardware capabilities have advanced beyond imagination at an exponential rate. Marketplace expectations of games and competition between game engines has also increased at a similar rate.

    There comes a time when starting from scratch and developing a new product is the only way forward. I have seen too many great pieces of software, and companies, disappear because the developers did not keep up with the advances in hardware technology, or keep up with the expectations of the marketplace.

    I am pleased that GameSalad has the foresight to adopt this path. It will provide us with a tool to remain competitive and ensure the continuation of this community.

  • HymloeHymloe Member Posts: 1,651

    Overall, I agree that Game Salad Creator has apparently become full of "gunk", and needs a fresh new start. So from an objective standpoint, hooray, and good work!

    From the standpoint of someone with a large project in Game Salad Creator, I've struggled with the issues with crashes and bugginess of Game Salad Creator over the years, and fear I won't be left with a version in the next few weeks that will let me finish off my game.

    Fingers crossed that we get a nice solid Game Salad Creator version soon that works flawlessly on Yosemite, and everyone can finish off their rad Game Salad games, and consider moving to Graphene in the future.

    :)

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Member, PRO Posts: 1,067

    I'm curious which platforms will be supported for export from this SDK. Windows exe and some sort of console support would be nice. > @Hymloe said:

    Overall, I agree that Game Salad Creator has apparently become full of "gunk", and needs a fresh new start. So from an objective standpoint, hooray, and good work!

    From the standpoint of someone with a large project in Game Salad Creator, I've struggled with the issues with crashes and bugginess of Game Salad Creator over the years, and fear I won't be left with a version in the next few weeks that will let me finish off my game.

    Fingers crossed that we get a nice solid Game Salad Creator version soon that works flawlessly on Yosemite, and everyone can finish off their rad Game Salad games, and consider moving to Graphene in the future.

    :)

    Well, @CodeWizard did say they will continue to support GS, so that's good news. I know how you feel though I have a massive project that lags the creator and it's always scary to bring into newer versions.

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  • RiffelRiffel Member Posts: 1,272

    Great times are coming!

  • Tiny_IdeasTiny_Ideas Member Posts: 326

    The only ones excited are the ones who have been chosen to test it.
    I paid PRO to support the development of gamesalad to help get it to its finished build. But that money was used in creating an entire new engine. Not sure why anyone is surprised or shocked that we are not impressed.

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Member Posts: 12,822

    @Hymloe said:
    I don't have the right combination of computers to even use it. Basically, you need one Mac with OSX 10.9.3 or 10.10 on it so you can build the GS Viewer in Xcode 6

    and another computer with 10.8.5 on it to actually use the Game Salad Creator.

    I'm not sure this is right ? I have GS 12.10 and OSX 10.9.5 and everything works just fine, GS Viewer builds just fine (using Xcode 6 like you say) and Creator runs just fine ?

  • Thunder_ChildThunder_Child Member Posts: 2,343
    edited December 2014

    @Tiny_Ideas said:
    The only ones excited are the ones who have been chosen to test it.
    I paid PRO to support the development of gamesalad to help get it to its finished build. But that money was used in creating an entire new engine. Not sure why anyone is surprised or shocked that we are not impressed.

    I havent been invited and Im excited.

    Microsoft does the same thing. You may buy windows to support building the software for Microsoft Office...

    When you bought Pro...you supported them doing anything they feel like doing...honestly.

    This is not new practices.

  • Tiny_IdeasTiny_Ideas Member Posts: 326

    Not when there is a road map for gamesalad that outlines the features. I wasn't born yesterday. I know the tactics involved.

  • colandercolander Member Posts: 1,610
    edited December 2014

    @Tiny_Ideas said:
    The only ones excited are the ones who have been chosen to test it.
    I paid PRO to support the development of gamesalad to help get it to its finished build. But that money was used in creating an entire new engine. Not sure why anyone is surprised or shocked that we are not impressed.

    Pro subscriptions are not the only income GS gets maybe they aren't spending any money from the Pro subscriptions on the Graphene. They may even have investors putting up the money for it.

  • FINNBOGGFINNBOGG Member Posts: 1,810

    @Nabbo said:
    Hope they provide proper support for GS, as I was hurt to hear that new engine is in work just after buying pro member. Hope they make GS stable ...

    Why I stopped paying my subscription all together. I had no idea what path Gs was going to take. So I came to a complete halt until I feel comfortable with their direction.

  • FINNBOGGFINNBOGG Member Posts: 1,810

    @Hymloe said:
    Overall, I agree that Game Salad Creator has apparently become full of "gunk", and needs a fresh new start. So from an objective standpoint, hooray, and good work!

    From the standpoint of someone with a large project in Game Salad Creator, I've struggled with the issues with crashes and bugginess of Game Salad Creator over the years, and fear I won't be left with a version in the next few weeks that will let me finish off my game.

    Fingers crossed that we get a nice solid Game Salad Creator version soon that works flawlessly on Yosemite, and everyone can finish off their rad Game Salad games, and consider moving to Graphene in the future.

    :)

    Ive Basically been saying the same thing...... just Ive been saying it much longer than most of you. I pay attention to the horizon, not the now and the promise of the next feature.

    Ive said all along that GS needs to take a step back and build something better from the foundation up. GS creator, even with all its glory was built on wobbly stilts.

  • Tiny_IdeasTiny_Ideas Member Posts: 326

    I am all for a new better engine. Its exciting. What gets me is that we have been told about upcoming features on the roadmap that are now are likely never going to see the light. This has been in the works for months. Why not tell people game salad creator isn't going to be getting those features.
    Same with all the request a feature for pros. That wasn't for the game salad creator it seems. It was so they could build one and add the feedback. Which is again great. It's been over 5 years and still no push notification. Why not just tell us it was never going to happen instead of leading everyone one. That's where my disappointment comes from.

    This new engine I would expect to have built in multi player features in all areas since they acquired the play together.

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Member Posts: 541

    Haven't you guys learned yet? GS will continue to BS you and promise this and that to keep your subscription money coming. I have watched for YEARS as every major improvement was promised and not delivered. Lua-free engine? Scrapped. Async-multiplayer? Scrapped. Playhaven revenue dashboard? Scrapped. Can you think of any others? Don't be naive and think they are going to change their ways. I bet this new engine takes another year and will be released and marked as beta as an excuse for it's badness. Don't waste your time learning this new system and actually learn a skill worth learning.

  • HymloeHymloe Member Posts: 1,651

    @Socks said:
    I'm not sure this is right ? I have GS 12.10 and OSX 10.9.5 and everything works just fine, GS Viewer builds just fine (using Xcode 6 like you say) and Creator runs just fine ?

    Thanks for the info, good to know. Maybe I'll go to 10.9.5. Much appreciated.

  • Night CabNight Cab Member Posts: 57

    @BBEnk said:
    Sweetness! +1 and signed up,lol.

    Hey, I don't wanna be THAT guy, but i did "Sweetness! +2". Just so you know. I'm one up, on top, I'm higher on the plusses!

  • motorcycle boymotorcycle boy Member Posts: 429
    edited December 2014

    I love the fact that it's a separate game builder. I don't know anything about coding a game builder like this, but even if the GS team promised to update the current creator with certain features, goals change over time; in other words, methods for achieving goals are refined and improved over time. I can think of my own goals in how I change how I will reach them. Sometimes this means changing your tactics along the way. The GS team probably at some point realized it would make a lot more sense to build this new house with a much more rock solid foundation so that we all wouldn't have to deal with all the bugs that would of been created having done it with the current engine. I mean don't we do that with games we make? After making dozens of games, why would you even think of taking your first game made with GS and using it for your base for a game with your current skills? Makes more sense to code from scratch with your current coding skills so that your foundation is much more solid. I think this announcement is nothing but a POSITIVE thing and that you should all be excited about it. I know I am!!! I don't code and having a new game builder with much more power than the current game builder is VERY exciting. So let's stop living in the past and embrace the new future which is MUCH better that just an update you've been expecting. You just traded a tune up for your FORD PINTO for a brand new CORVETTE. And you're SAD about that???

  • motorcycle boymotorcycle boy Member Posts: 429

    And by the way, I've already made all the money back from my investment and then some. So I don't feel I've wasted my money or that the wool was pulled over my eyes. I think the guys here have been hard at work on a new awesome product. For many people change is a scary thing. Just suck it up and adapt and you'll be fine. The reality is we have a new and improved game builder as well as support for the current one. There is no negative here only positive. I think it's fine to voice concerns and frustrations though and is everyone's right in this community so I'm not telling anyone to be quiet. We should all share our voices and be heard. I'm just excited about this new development. To me it's a Christmas suprise! :D

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Member Posts: 9,914

    Multiplayer isn't scrapped, heck game salad bought together games just for multiplayer. It's still active in the nightly. I submitted a a bug report and the team asked for the sample project so they could debug it. So I can tell you first hand they are still working on multiplayer. It's fine to vent but be sure to present facts not rumor.

  • diogoredindiogoredin Member Posts: 50
    edited December 2014

    Great news for newbies entering the cross platform mobile game creation.

    Bad news for GS users, as it will be a direct competitor and.. wait a minute... :(

  • Thunder_ChildThunder_Child Member Posts: 2,343

    Im so suprised how negative these reponses are to a new product. It makes me ask the question...WHEN would it be ok to come out with a new product? After they fix the issues...announce they wasnt going to fix anything else? Make creator a non beta software? What level of completion would some of you feel its ok? When EVER is it ok? NEVER? Even in the announcement they said they will continue to work on GS creator. I dont see why this is not a good thing. There is such a thing as investment. If we have to pay for Graphene seperately then maybe...like most companies do...they invest their time and own resourses to build new and better products...hoping for a return. Isnt that what we do as developers in a sense? We invest our time making games and hope for a return...some even claim they do it for fun only. Maybe they are doing it for fun? Could be fun and hope for a return. If they are smart they do it for money as an ultimate goal. It woukd be stupid not to do so. So im glad to see it. I dont expect to see any haters here in the Graphene forums. Right? Surely you didnt sign up did you for the beta?

    ;)

  • FINNBOGGFINNBOGG Member Posts: 1,810

    @Thunder_Child said:
    Im so suprised how negative these reponses are to a new product. It makes me ask the question...WHEN would it be ok to come out with a new product? After they fix the issues...announce they wasnt going to fix anything else? Make creator a non beta software? What level of completion would some of you feel its ok? When EVER is it ok? NEVER? Even in the announcement they said they will continue to work on GS creator. I dont see why this is not a good thing. There is such a thing as investment. If we have to pay for Graphene seperately then maybe...like most companies do...they invest their time and own resourses to build new and better products...hoping for a return. Isnt that what we do as developers in a sense? We invest our time making games and hope for a return...some even claim they do it for fun only. Maybe they are doing it for fun? Could be fun and hope for a return. If they are smart they do it for money as an ultimate goal. It woukd be stupid not to do so. So im glad to see it. I dont expect to see any haters here in the Graphene forums. Right? Surely you didnt sign up did you for the beta?

    ;)

    I agree with you....sorta.

    Or is this going to become like GS Creator is now? Are GameSalads attempts going to be like a room full of unfinished art. Art that got pushed to the side because the artist had a great idea for a new painting. Tons of art that is almost finished and none that is.

    Is Graphene going to be something solid and ready for use. Then as time goes by patches are added, new versions released with additional features and options? Or is going to always be "in beta" forever and never stand up and say this is what I am and what I do?

    I go back to Adobe and their products.

    Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effect...etc...etc are in the 6th or 7th Version. Hell maybe more. They have always grown into something better. And between each version there were quick fix patches to issues. Then there were requested features and requested changes. And in time those features and changes would or would not show up in the next version. Any software development company out in the world goes day by day with these types of procedures. Please dont use that phrase " forever growing beta". Thats lazy.

    If Gamesalad creator was entended to be a gulash of ideas and spun through a long term beta system, so they could learn how to make Graphene the best it can be? THEN IM ALL FOR IT. I hope its everything we hope it can be.

  • Thunder_ChildThunder_Child Member Posts: 2,343

    @FINNBOGG‌ you make great points as well. I still say it would be nice to call creator finished with a no beta title. It would be good before a new product release. It woukd show some sort of goal with GS to make at least one thing "final".

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