State of GameSalad on 12-1-2016

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  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Member, BASIC Posts: 5,726
  • HopscotchHopscotch Member, PRO Posts: 2,782

    @adent42

    Thank you.

    This is very positive for the future. And a good prospect for "real" developers as well.

  • IceboxIcebox Member Posts: 1,484

    @adent42 said:
    During the next 6 months, here's how it's going to look:

    • Creator for Mac (maintenance)
    • Creator for Windows (maintenance)
    • HTML5 Creator (HTML5 / Javascript - in development)
    • HTML5 Engine (updates to match existing native engine for accurate preview)
    • Native Engine (updates that don't involve tool changes, like Google Play, loading bugs, loading time, OS updates)

    Whenever all features are ported to the HTML5 based tool AND we have a desktop ready replacement:

    • HTML5 Creator (Active development)
    • HTML5 Engine (Active development)
    • Native Engine (Active development)

    Oh now this is something I didn't expect ,the native engine will still be there, and html5 will have great performance if it will match the native engine , which means we will be able to put our games on the web without issues and wrap it as exe for steam . If this is the case i will continue using gamesalad , but will you have gamepad support for html5 since it will be the main preview for our games ? :o This got me a bit excited :) after feeling so down.

  • adent42adent42 Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PRO Posts: 1,944

    @Icebox the HTML5 engine won't be the exactly same performance (or else we'd just replace everything with that). The goal is to have all the same features and have it behave the same in anything that's not performance related.

    Things that we'll need to fix in the HTML5 engine off the top of my head:

    • Fix text rendering. We use different methods for rendering text between the two engines.
    • Adding the loop behavior
    • Fixing collision resolution (there are some differences between the engines)

    Once things work the same, it shouldn't be much of an issue on desktop, it's mobile where you really see the difference between HTML5 and native.

  • IceboxIcebox Member Posts: 1,484

    @adent42 Thanks for the response ! This is really awesome, collisions are one of the greatest issues with html5 and I had some bugs , more love will be put to html5 engine , which is something I was really waiting for this whole time.

    The goal is to have all the same features and have it behave the same in anything that's not performance related.

    I hope this also includes gamepad support .. If things go as expected then hopefully this will be great for us developers too. Looks like ill continue using it since the native engine will still be there so thats good.

  • KnightStarKnightStar Member Posts: 162

    @adent42 - thanks for the update.. I know you guys are cranking away but us chickens in our echo-chamber coops can easily turn the slightest inclination of change or variation into full-fledged "The Sky is Falling!" mode...

    I'm still playing it one-day-at-a-time, but it's always better to make decisions based on as much info on hand..

    Cheers!

    -- J

  • stragstrag Member, PRO Posts: 602

    Thanks for laying the cards on the table @adent42 much appreciated. ;)

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaMember Posts: 1,390

    @adent42 Very heartening news, thank you.

    Maybe the plan could be posted with its own sticky so that as many members as possible see it? Or even a email out so some of the recently departed ( and those on the fence ) get their interest piqued?

  • JapsterJapster Member Posts: 672

    @adent42 said:
    @Hopscotch - We're keeping the native engine around. It's one of the keys what makes GameSalad powerful and we're not getting rid of it. All versions of the tool will be able to publish to all existing engines.

    Hopefully, this will clears things up:

    We currently have:

    • Creator for Mac (Objective C / Cocoa)
    • Creator for Windows (C# / WPF)
    • HTML5 Engine
    • Native Engine

    During the next 6 months, here's how it's going to look:

    • Creator for Mac (maintenance)
    • Creator for Windows (maintenance)
    • HTML5 Creator (HTML5 / Javascript - in development)
    • HTML5 Engine (updates to match existing native engine for accurate preview)
    • Native Engine (updates that don't involve tool changes, like Google Play, loading bugs, loading time, OS updates)

    Whenever all features are ported to the HTML5 based tool AND we have a desktop ready replacement:

    • HTML5 Creator (Active development)
    • HTML5 Engine (Active development)
    • Native Engine (Active development)

    This sounds much better news, thanks @adent42 - lots of concerns addressed, BUT still missing one major response for me - I'd still really like to have my question answered regarding if there are any plans to actually deliver a Windows EXE / STEAM exportable target option (akin to the MAC target, in terms of retaining performance? - i.e. NOT a buggy, or even fixed but noticeably slower, HTML5 wrapped poor cousin?)

    Basically, it would be highly beneficial, not to mention more loyalty-inducing, to finally give us subscribers the option to actually produce windows executables, with similar if not better (due to no Creator/GUI overheads) performance to the native previewer, especially for the developers amongst us who have managed to develop fast, smooth arcade games written in GS - ones that will be unplayable if HTML5 is the only option?

    Really, I don't think I'm the only one who is expecting an answer to this query, and if possible, this platform availability addressed and delivered?

    Cheers...

  • HypnorabbitHypnorabbit SingaporeMember, PRO Posts: 222
    edited December 2016

    Been with GS 7 years and remember the good old days fondly, especially the buzz of 2009/2010 as Gamesalad grew dramatically. Remember the community support, the enthusiasm for the product and the more regular communication.

    Can you do us a favour and clearly explain your intentions in your initial post next time? This always happens where you end up clarifying your initial message (basically the whole of this year) - a clearer first message would benefit everyone here and reduce the chance for fallout, which you then have to clear up!

  • jay2dxjay2dx Member Posts: 610

    Well you've got me till March when I release my game and actually with the updated info it doesn't actually sound too bad to be honest! Things should hopfully tick over, maybe even better with the new funding from education :)

  • anipowteamanipowteam Ease In or Ease Out IndonesiaMember, PRO Posts: 15

    @adent42 said:
    @Hopscotch - We're keeping the native engine around. It's one of the keys what makes GameSalad powerful and we're not getting rid of it. All versions of the tool will be able to publish to all existing engines.

    Hopefully, this will clears things up:

    We currently have:

    • Creator for Mac (Objective C / Cocoa)
    • Creator for Windows (C# / WPF)
    • HTML5 Engine
    • Native Engine

    During the next 6 months, here's how it's going to look:

    • Creator for Mac (maintenance)
    • Creator for Windows (maintenance)
    • HTML5 Creator (HTML5 / Javascript - in development)
    • HTML5 Engine (updates to match existing native engine for accurate preview)
    • Native Engine (updates that don't involve tool changes, like Google Play, loading bugs, loading time, OS updates)

    Whenever all features are ported to the HTML5 based tool AND we have a desktop ready replacement:

    • HTML5 Creator (Active development)
    • HTML5 Engine (Active development)
    • Native Engine (Active development)

    thanks @adent42 for the valuable information, especially creator for windows and using C# for develop it, I have learn C# program language about 4 years. You know, in my country the game developer always suggestion to use another application to making their games, they have said making android game isn't running good use gameSalad. But, I have try gameSalad until now and very good. You know, I have use another application but i don't get what i need, I find it in gameSalad. I'll tell to my people GameSalad is very good Or making tutorial about gamesalad with our language. Beside that, The people in this forum very kind, sometimes I ask something and my words aren't good, but they effort to understand. We'll wait GameSalad next version, with more new feautres.

    Thinking Simple, Do Perfect

  • KevinCrossKevinCross London, UKMember Posts: 1,893

    I hope this roadmap isn't forgotten and brushed under the carpet with new promises in 6 months time! :)

    Good luck with it!

    My accounts on hold for a little while, not really because of the state of GameSalad as I agree it is a relatively stable tool if you don't want certain features, but because I've found something else that I can work with a lot quicker with scripting only. It's hard to imagine how much development time is wasted coming in and out of actors, adding behaviors, navigating drop down menus in expression boxes, and pee'ing about with the layers tree that closes everytime you move away from it etc. >.<

  • adent42adent42 Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PRO Posts: 1,944
    edited December 2016

    @Japster so for the short term we won't be working on the Windows engine port, mostly because we need to get through the Google Play stuff, then loading screen bugs, and then taking a look at scene loading times again.

    We're currently not planning that far ahead for the engine to avoid releasing a roadmap that we may end up breaking. I will say that some code has been done with this (beyond getting the native preview in the Windows tool). I personally haven't looked at the code because I'm running on Mac and my HDD doesn't have the space to bootcamp. I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.

    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

  • fmakawafmakawa Member Posts: 560

    @adent42 would rather have exe first so we can put into the windows stores

  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Member, BASIC Posts: 5,726

    @adent42, if the Windows export was stable I'd say release it when it's done and integrate Steam later.

  • IceboxIcebox Member Posts: 1,484
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 said:
    I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.
    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    Awesome !

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

    Windows EXE first please , It should be top of the list before anything (atleast for me) .. I like the plan so far , thanks for the update.

    Edit: You should have a mouse hide/show behavior for games in the future.

  • JapsterJapster Member Posts: 672

    @KevinCross said:
    I hope this roadmap isn't forgotten and brushed under the carpet with new promises in 6 months time! :)

    It's hard to imagine how much development time is wasted coming in and out of actors, adding behaviors, navigating drop down menus in expression boxes, and pee'ing about with the layers tree that closes everytime you move away from it etc. >.<

    +1 to that!

  • JapsterJapster Member Posts: 672
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 said:
    @Japster so for the short term we won't be working on the Windows engine port, mostly because we need to get through the Google Play stuff, then loading screen bugs, and then taking a look at scene loading times again.

    We're currently not planning that far ahead for the engine to avoid releasing a roadmap that we may end up breaking. I will say that some code has been done with this (beyond getting the native preview in the Windows tool). I personally haven't looked at the code because I'm running on Mac and my HDD doesn't have the space to bootcamp. I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.

    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

    Huge thanks for taking the time to respond to this, @adent42 !

    That's great to hear more detailed, straight-talking and up-front info, but yes, I'm in agreement with the other guys - much as I'd love to have proper Steam target capability (albeit later) - just to have the ability to produce EXE's, then at a later date, native Steam applications, would be a great start...

    Thanks again for responding - it's put a little faith back for me... :smiley:

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Member Posts: 1,069
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 Thank you for the in-depth responses, helped a lot with clarifying the issues. BTW I just noticed your username reference. Can't believe I never caught that before haha.

    Oh and .exe first.

    Follow us: Twitter - Website

  • Two.ETwo.E Member Posts: 597

    While I don't use GameSalad, I have noticed an increasing number of schools in Australia using GS as part of their program now. Glad to see that your change in direction (and focus) is working out.
    Best,
    Two.E

  • tttdev8@gmail.comtttdev8@gmail.com Member Posts: 8
    edited December 2016

    edited

  • jay2dxjay2dx Member Posts: 610

    I've been thinking about the update news the past few days and really come to terms with it after the new info, seems like we'll be getting some good stuff after all,

    While I have reservations on releasing games with GameSalad in a years time I do however want to use it to teach game design, I'm currently in the process of setting up my own introduction to coding and game design school here in the UK so the education focus will be very good for me. I'm currently saving to buy 12 laptops to run GS, now if only the chrome book integration worked now it would save me a good fortune,

    Maybe a few of you other guys should think about teaching! It can be very rewarding!

  • blobblob Member, PRO Posts: 226
    edited December 2016

    @ForumNinja @adent42

    Grrrrrrr...... away for a week and now this! :o

    Overtime, It has become apparent to me that state of GameSalad updates miscommunicate and misrepresent the very situation they are meant to portray.

    Your intentional or unintentional efforts to package bad news and twist interpretations of your directions into false positive statements and opinions, designed for damage control, is akin to PR brainwashing and always seems to backfire.
    Resulting in the opposite of the desire effect:
    A bunch of angry posts, speculations and a community trying to read between the lines in hope to figure out what is really going on.
    It's Infuriating and condescending when you guys try to sugar coat, twist or cover intents.
    You are not addressing a bunch of 13 years old One Direction screaming fans or a rally of non-fact checking, gullible, Donald Trump, disillusioned old redneck supporters.

    Save the pitch, say it like it is.
    We see thru it anyway and we really care to know what you guys are really doing.

    Extra BS opinions to appease us always end up creating the opposite effect on this matter.

    Then, as it usually unfolds, 4 days and 4 pages later, you guys end up clarifying the blunder with more honest and straightforward language... Get it?

    I would recommend State of GameSalad to be simply about facts and roadmaps.
    And less about hammering a fictitious positive angle of your next apocalyptic direction into our codeless brains.

    I'm Reading that the WebTool is at least 8 "GS month" away (probably way more in actual calendar month) and requires lots of development resources, as well as being constrained by "back to school" deadlines:

    So i'm wondering why your management hired Marketing, Sales reps over coders few months ago, isn't it a bit premature and backwards?

    This, to me, reveals an awfully pathetic lack of direction, organization and vision

    Let me just throw a crazy irrational idea out there.
    Hire coders to build the damn tool first instead of a sale force with no product to sell.

  • lycettebroslycettebros Member, PRO Posts: 1,598
    edited December 2016

    @blob for President!

    (Best Post for 2016 IMO)

  • Two.ETwo.E Member Posts: 597
    edited December 2016

    The Online version is a very smart move for education.
    Best,
    Two.E

  • ArmellineArmelline Member, PRO Posts: 4,976

    @blob said:

    So i'm wondering why your management hired Marketing, Sales reps over coders few months ago, isn't it a bit premature and backwards?

    My assumption is that they need money to survive. That without more sales, more coders would be out of their jobs anyway. GameSalad needed to stabilise and find firmer footing - which these sales reps enable them to do. Then, after they have money to both pay the essential bills AND hire coders, they hire coders. Hiring coders when you can't pay to keep the lights on isn't going to get you anywhere. Hiring sales reps just might.

  • blobblob Member, PRO Posts: 226
    edited December 2016

    @Armelline said:
    My assumption is that they need money to survive.

    Possibly, however they just got more funding and seem to be thinking long term since the Web Tool is expected to be ready by July 2017.
    Additionally their announcement will only diminishing the number of PRO accounts and immediate money going their way.

    That without more sales, more coders would be out of their jobs anyway.

    Sales to who? they are not ready for schools, the education features are not in yet, the cookbook hasn't been updated forever. and school programs usually get set up before September not in the middle of the school year.

    However, I get your point and i don't pretend to know what's going on at GS HQ but it still seems off to me.

    More like: they wanted to attack the education market with the next GameSalad build last September, hence the marketing and sales hiring ...
    Unfortunately, they couldn't implement the zoom, grid.. etc features in time (again, due to their aversion to hiring coders) and found a better direction to go at it next year.

  • ForumNinjaForumNinja Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO Posts: 545

    @blob Schools don't explicitly use the Cookbook, they get our fancy new curriculum with the packages they purchase.

    I do agree that the Cookbook has outdated bits, and if anyone would like to send me links to specific outdated pages I can spend some time updating it.

  • fmakawafmakawa Member Posts: 560
    edited December 2016

    @blob what education features are you claiming don't exist yet? Zoom etc are features for everyone not just education. As for education, they have a dashboard the use (which you don't see since you're not an educator). They also have a specific curriculum which schools get. And other support. You make some valid points but your constant hostility and down right negativity is exhausting. We get it, we didn't get the things we were hoping for now and might not ever but we use GS for what it is and not what we want it to be. We all prefer not to leave and learn another tool but we have may to. Lump it. I'm out.

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