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State of GameSalad on 12-1-2016

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  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Posts: 5,506Member, BASIC
  • HopscotchHopscotch Posts: 2,782Member, PRO

    @adent42

    Thank you.

    This is very positive for the future. And a good prospect for "real" developers as well.

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,476Member

    @adent42 said:
    During the next 6 months, here's how it's going to look:

    • Creator for Mac (maintenance)
    • Creator for Windows (maintenance)
    • HTML5 Creator (HTML5 / Javascript - in development)
    • HTML5 Engine (updates to match existing native engine for accurate preview)
    • Native Engine (updates that don't involve tool changes, like Google Play, loading bugs, loading time, OS updates)

    Whenever all features are ported to the HTML5 based tool AND we have a desktop ready replacement:

    • HTML5 Creator (Active development)
    • HTML5 Engine (Active development)
    • Native Engine (Active development)

    Oh now this is something I didn't expect ,the native engine will still be there, and html5 will have great performance if it will match the native engine , which means we will be able to put our games on the web without issues and wrap it as exe for steam . If this is the case i will continue using gamesalad , but will you have gamepad support for html5 since it will be the main preview for our games ? :o This got me a bit excited :) after feeling so down.

  • adent42adent42 Posts: 1,263Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @Icebox the HTML5 engine won't be the exactly same performance (or else we'd just replace everything with that). The goal is to have all the same features and have it behave the same in anything that's not performance related.

    Things that we'll need to fix in the HTML5 engine off the top of my head:

    • Fix text rendering. We use different methods for rendering text between the two engines.
    • Adding the loop behavior
    • Fixing collision resolution (there are some differences between the engines)

    Once things work the same, it shouldn't be much of an issue on desktop, it's mobile where you really see the difference between HTML5 and native.

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,476Member

    @adent42 Thanks for the response ! This is really awesome, collisions are one of the greatest issues with html5 and I had some bugs , more love will be put to html5 engine , which is something I was really waiting for this whole time.

    The goal is to have all the same features and have it behave the same in anything that's not performance related.

    I hope this also includes gamepad support .. If things go as expected then hopefully this will be great for us developers too. Looks like ill continue using it since the native engine will still be there so thats good.

  • KnightStarKnightStar Posts: 161Member

    @adent42 - thanks for the update.. I know you guys are cranking away but us chickens in our echo-chamber coops can easily turn the slightest inclination of change or variation into full-fledged "The Sky is Falling!" mode...

    I'm still playing it one-day-at-a-time, but it's always better to make decisions based on as much info on hand..

    Cheers!

    -- J

  • stragstrag Posts: 516Member, PRO

    Thanks for laying the cards on the table @adent42 much appreciated. ;)

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaPosts: 1,388Member

    @adent42 Very heartening news, thank you.

    Maybe the plan could be posted with its own sticky so that as many members as possible see it? Or even a email out so some of the recently departed ( and those on the fence ) get their interest piqued?

  • JapsterJapster Posts: 657Member

    @adent42 said:
    @Hopscotch - We're keeping the native engine around. It's one of the keys what makes GameSalad powerful and we're not getting rid of it. All versions of the tool will be able to publish to all existing engines.

    Hopefully, this will clears things up:

    We currently have:

    • Creator for Mac (Objective C / Cocoa)
    • Creator for Windows (C# / WPF)
    • HTML5 Engine
    • Native Engine

    During the next 6 months, here's how it's going to look:

    • Creator for Mac (maintenance)
    • Creator for Windows (maintenance)
    • HTML5 Creator (HTML5 / Javascript - in development)
    • HTML5 Engine (updates to match existing native engine for accurate preview)
    • Native Engine (updates that don't involve tool changes, like Google Play, loading bugs, loading time, OS updates)

    Whenever all features are ported to the HTML5 based tool AND we have a desktop ready replacement:

    • HTML5 Creator (Active development)
    • HTML5 Engine (Active development)
    • Native Engine (Active development)

    This sounds much better news, thanks @adent42 - lots of concerns addressed, BUT still missing one major response for me - I'd still really like to have my question answered regarding if there are any plans to actually deliver a Windows EXE / STEAM exportable target option (akin to the MAC target, in terms of retaining performance? - i.e. NOT a buggy, or even fixed but noticeably slower, HTML5 wrapped poor cousin?)

    Basically, it would be highly beneficial, not to mention more loyalty-inducing, to finally give us subscribers the option to actually produce windows executables, with similar if not better (due to no Creator/GUI overheads) performance to the native previewer, especially for the developers amongst us who have managed to develop fast, smooth arcade games written in GS - ones that will be unplayable if HTML5 is the only option?

    Really, I don't think I'm the only one who is expecting an answer to this query, and if possible, this platform availability addressed and delivered?

    Cheers...

  • jay2dxjay2dx Posts: 604Member, PRO

    Well you've got me till March when I release my game and actually with the updated info it doesn't actually sound too bad to be honest! Things should hopfully tick over, maybe even better with the new funding from education :)

  • adent42adent42 Posts: 1,263Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee
    edited December 2016

    @Japster so for the short term we won't be working on the Windows engine port, mostly because we need to get through the Google Play stuff, then loading screen bugs, and then taking a look at scene loading times again.

    We're currently not planning that far ahead for the engine to avoid releasing a roadmap that we may end up breaking. I will say that some code has been done with this (beyond getting the native preview in the Windows tool). I personally haven't looked at the code because I'm running on Mac and my HDD doesn't have the space to bootcamp. I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.

    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

  • fmakawafmakawa Posts: 557Member

    @adent42 would rather have exe first so we can put into the windows stores

  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Posts: 5,506Member, BASIC

    @adent42, if the Windows export was stable I'd say release it when it's done and integrate Steam later.

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,476Member
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 said:
    I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.
    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    Awesome !

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

    Windows EXE first please , It should be top of the list before anything (atleast for me) .. I like the plan so far , thanks for the update.

    Edit: You should have a mouse hide/show behavior for games in the future.

  • JapsterJapster Posts: 657Member

    @KevinCross said:
    I hope this roadmap isn't forgotten and brushed under the carpet with new promises in 6 months time! :)

    It's hard to imagine how much development time is wasted coming in and out of actors, adding behaviors, navigating drop down menus in expression boxes, and pee'ing about with the layers tree that closes everytime you move away from it etc. >.<

    +1 to that!

  • JapsterJapster Posts: 657Member
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 said:
    @Japster so for the short term we won't be working on the Windows engine port, mostly because we need to get through the Google Play stuff, then loading screen bugs, and then taking a look at scene loading times again.

    We're currently not planning that far ahead for the engine to avoid releasing a roadmap that we may end up breaking. I will say that some code has been done with this (beyond getting the native preview in the Windows tool). I personally haven't looked at the code because I'm running on Mac and my HDD doesn't have the space to bootcamp. I want to put a Windows exe high on my list after looking at the other issues, so we'll keep you posted.

    I'll try to get through the listed stuff sooner so we can get the Windows exe running sooner than later, because I'd love to see our games on Steam!

    As a general question to help with future planning, would you rather had Windows EXE as soon as it's done, or would you rather wait a bit longer until we integrate the steam libraries, which is why most people want Windows EXE.

    Huge thanks for taking the time to respond to this, @adent42 !

    That's great to hear more detailed, straight-talking and up-front info, but yes, I'm in agreement with the other guys - much as I'd love to have proper Steam target capability (albeit later) - just to have the ability to produce EXE's, then at a later date, native Steam applications, would be a great start...

    Thanks again for responding - it's put a little faith back for me... :smiley:

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Posts: 998Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @adent42 Thank you for the in-depth responses, helped a lot with clarifying the issues. BTW I just noticed your username reference. Can't believe I never caught that before haha.

    Oh and .exe first.

    Follow us: Twitter - Website

  • Two.ETwo.E Posts: 519Member, BASIC

    While I don't use GameSalad, I have noticed an increasing number of schools in Australia using GS as part of their program now. Glad to see that your change in direction (and focus) is working out.
    Best,
    Two.E

  • tttdev8@gmail.com[email protected] Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2016

    edited

  • jay2dxjay2dx Posts: 604Member, PRO

    I've been thinking about the update news the past few days and really come to terms with it after the new info, seems like we'll be getting some good stuff after all,

    While I have reservations on releasing games with GameSalad in a years time I do however want to use it to teach game design, I'm currently in the process of setting up my own introduction to coding and game design school here in the UK so the education focus will be very good for me. I'm currently saving to buy 12 laptops to run GS, now if only the chrome book integration worked now it would save me a good fortune,

    Maybe a few of you other guys should think about teaching! It can be very rewarding!

  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,598Member
    edited December 2016

    @blob for President!

    (Best Post for 2016 IMO)

  • Two.ETwo.E Posts: 519Member, BASIC
    edited December 2016

    The Online version is a very smart move for education.
    Best,
    Two.E

  • blobblob Posts: 182Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @Armelline said:
    My assumption is that they need money to survive.

    Possibly, however they just got more funding and seem to be thinking long term since the Web Tool is expected to be ready by July 2017.
    Additionally their announcement will only diminishing the number of PRO accounts and immediate money going their way.

    That without more sales, more coders would be out of their jobs anyway.

    Sales to who? they are not ready for schools, the education features are not in yet, the cookbook hasn't been updated forever. and school programs usually get set up before September not in the middle of the school year.

    However, I get your point and i don't pretend to know what's going on at GS HQ but it still seems off to me.

    More like: they wanted to attack the education market with the next GameSalad build last September, hence the marketing and sales hiring ...
    Unfortunately, they couldn't implement the zoom, grid.. etc features in time (again, due to their aversion to hiring coders) and found a better direction to go at it next year.

  • ForumNinjaForumNinja Posts: 541Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @blob Schools don't explicitly use the Cookbook, they get our fancy new curriculum with the packages they purchase.

    I do agree that the Cookbook has outdated bits, and if anyone would like to send me links to specific outdated pages I can spend some time updating it.

  • fmakawafmakawa Posts: 557Member
    edited December 2016

    @blob what education features are you claiming don't exist yet? Zoom etc are features for everyone not just education. As for education, they have a dashboard the use (which you don't see since you're not an educator). They also have a specific curriculum which schools get. And other support. You make some valid points but your constant hostility and down right negativity is exhausting. We get it, we didn't get the things we were hoping for now and might not ever but we use GS for what it is and not what we want it to be. We all prefer not to leave and learn another tool but we have may to. Lump it. I'm out.

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