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State of GameSalad on 12-1-2016

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  • blobblob Posts: 187Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @fmakawa said:
    @blob what edu cation features are you claiming don't exist yet?

    The next build that was suppose to be geared toward the education market.

    Zoom etc are features for everyone not just education.

    Yes of course , but the defunct update was primarily designed for the edu market. Hence I mentioned them not being ready since this update never occurred.

    your constant hostility and down right negativity is exhausting.

    That's a hostile, negative assessment of my behavior.

    I call it constructive criticism. I always try to offer an idea, i never bash GS aimlessly.
    It's positivity and my belief that amazing things are still possible that keeps me hoping, typing and trying to discuss alternative .

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,706Member, PRO

    @blob You have to have realised by now, though, that if GS was able to fill their ranks with new coders and crank out new features, they would. They even specifically tried that. But it didn't fill their coffers, and now they're trying to become more financially stable. The new funding you mentioned, that was because of the new direction. They'd almost certainly not have got it if they'd kept doing business as usually. (I have no inside information on this, just reading between the lines.)

    They are ready for schools. That's the whole point of this new direction. They're just not ready for all schools, and the web based Creator lets them do that. They clearly had some success in their push for new schools using GS this school year, and they'll be pushing for the web creator to be ready for next school year.

    I'm afraid I'm with @fmakawa, though. Your relentless negativity and complete unwillingness to accept some basic facts makes it tiring to discuss these things with you. You'll have the harsh reality of the situation laid out clearly to you and still insist the solution is to hire more coders. Do we all want GS to hire more coders? Sure! But we want it to survive, more. And hiring more coders isn't necessarily the best way to achieve that end.

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaPosts: 1,389Member

    @mhedges Now break one oar and see what happens. >:)

  • ToqueToque Posts: 1,172Member

    @PhilipCC said:
    @mhedges Now break one oar and see what happens. >:)

    Circles. Good one!

  • freneticzfreneticz SwedenPosts: 678Member, PRO

    I am happy with the stable build right now, but it is Little anoying that some "small" bugs
    dont get fixed & essantial feature dont get added........its so close that GS can be the best program for building games in the World.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    I am doing a complex app with a huge backend presence with a client. It has a complete login system and user data tracking. Gamesalad is still a great tool as is. A few small issues to be worked out. Which they may find time to get to. I know they are working on the android leaderboards. It would be nice for the load screen issue to be fixed. I think the scene loads are more related to large games. I haven't had issues with scene loads in any of my games apps. As someone who does client work, I can say many users still write very bloated code and this is part of the issue.

    It is what it is. I tend to just skip the ranting threads and move on to other more interesting threads, which are like seeing a unicorn around here now.

  • blobblob Posts: 187Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @Armelline said:
    You'll have the harsh reality of the situation laid out clearly to you and still insist the >solution is to hire more coders.

    As you did with the open source thread. You seem to misunderstand or simply read too fast.
    This seems to result in oversimplification, stereotyping and caricatural interpretation of my, oh so not important, opinion.

    I do not insist they hire more coders, in order for me to make such an assessment, i would have to know their situation, their budget, their constraints etc.
    In my previous post, I said word for words : "I'm throwing ideas out there".
    In order to understand their direction a little better and secretly, to help a little, if I may.

    Beyond the subscription we paid each month, some us, as you well know, are very invested in GameSalad.
    Therefore questioning and speculating as GS hasn't really been a very solid and well oiled mechanism for the past 2 years, is perfectly normal and healthy and might even help a little, at times.

    @Armelline said:
    I'm afraid I'm with @fmakawa, though. Your relentless negativity and complete >unwillingness to accept some basic facts makes it tiring to discuss these things with >you.

    I am relentless yes, but flexible.
    I refuse to give up on what GameSalad can be.
    I refuse to keep my worries internalized and i refuse to not communicate with GS team and you guys and i refuse to be pinned under negative for such.

    Have you ever seen any great achievements that weren't involving persistence and determination?
    (( I can anticipate you asking me:" what is it you are trying to achieve?"
    The point of the above sentence was just that it is a good thing to not give up on dreams.))

    Moreover, if something is wrong , it's not negative to say that something is wrong, acknowledgement is the first step to fixing it. But it never fails to awaken some who confuse this with negativity.

    By the way, sometime the tone gets lost in writing but I say all these things very peacefully and respectfully.
    @Armelline, i think you are absolutely amazing and a true pillar of this community.
    And you always seem to have a fair, balanced, just opinion on most things, and this is probably why my hardcore, passionate, persistent, temperament and risky ideas may clash with your chemical makeup and tire you.

    But my opinions are just as logically valid as yours and just as positive, if not more positive since I do believe we can change things for the better and you just seem to give in to the way things are.

  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,299Member
    edited December 2016

    @blob said:

    [...] if something is wrong , it's not negative to say that something is wrong, acknowledgement is the first step to fixing it. But it never fails to awaken some who confuse this with negativity.

    [...] my opinions are just as logically valid as yours and just as positive, if not more positive since I do believe we can change things for the better and you just seem to give in to the way things are.

    It's positivity and my belief that amazing things are still possible that keeps me hoping, typing and trying to discuss alternative .

    How you express yourself makes a huge difference, though. That's where the negativity seeps in. I generally agree with you when you explain it a couple posts later, but your initial reaction is usually completely different in tone. The irony of this is that what you are doing here is exactly what you criticized GameSalad for just one page back:

    @blob said:

    Overtime, It has become apparent to me that state of GameSalad updates miscommunicate and misrepresent the very situation they are meant to portray.

    Resulting in the opposite of the desire effect

    Then, as it usually unfolds, 4 days and 4 pages later, you guys end up clarifying the blunder with more honest and straightforward language... Get it?

    Get it? If what you really want to communicate is the positivity of the potential you see, refusing to give up on what GameSalad can be, even by pointing out what is wrong, just go for a honest -- but at the same time straightforward -- approach, without embellishment and images of melodrama:

    @blob said:

    Grrrrrrr...... away for a week and now this! :o

    That will make for a more productive discussion and informative reading, which might actually lead somewhere!

  • KevinCrossKevinCross London, UKPosts: 1,893Member

    @hybrid said:
    I think @blob is in his right to express his feelings about this, i dont think is negative comments if we have in mind that gamesalad fail to deliver what they said was almost finished.

    Agreed!

  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,299Member

    @KevinCross said:

    Agreed!

    The negativity is usually not in what he says itself, but how he presents it.

  • blobblob Posts: 187Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @pHghost said:
    How you express yourself makes a huge difference, though. That's where the negativity >seeps in. I generally agree with you when you explain it a couple posts later,

    When someone says, "screw the king", we need a democracy not a kingdom.
    It's always going to shock some but in context, we have been promised an update for at least 8 months then suddenly we have to wait another year.
    So being honest and straightforward as you recommended, is just saying how we feel about it and it will likely not come out so rosy.
    Going back to the king example, there are always going to be someone ready to say, don't be so negative the king is ok.
    If everyone operated this way, there would never be any revolution for the better.

    This aversion and fear of criticism is the bed where all improvements and progresses die.

    your initial reaction is usually completely different in tone. The irony of this is that what >you are doing here is exactly what you criticized GameSalad for just one page back:

    just go for a honest -- but at the same time straightforward -- approach, without >embellishment and images of melodrama:

    I'm being totally honest to the risk of pissing off some, therefore straightforward.
    I said what i wanted to say, the way i wanted to say it, not beating around the bush or distorting concepts to appeal to all.
    If you reread my original post this is exactly what I criticized the state of GameSalad in general of not doing and instead leaning slightly towards PR brainwashing to the wrong crowd.
    This is not at all something my original post is guilty of.

    That will make for a more productive discussion and informative reading, which might >actually lead somewhere!

    I think that conveying the way we feel and expressing frustration is not negating the productive bits in a post and can help communicating the overall reaction to a situation which may then help the perpuatrator of the said situation in productive analysis.
    I'm not a robot nor do i want to be. Plus as you requested, it is honest.

  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,299Member

    @blob said:

    Going back to the king example, there are always going to be someone ready to say, don't be so negative the king is ok.

    If everyone operated this way, there would never be any revolution for the better.

    But I don't think anybody here is saying that. Reading through the thread should make that clear. People are acknowledging the issues and speaking of them, expressing their opinions. Once again, I don't think the perception of your negativity comes from the concept of what you say, but more the way you say it, building up more drama around it than there is in reality, killing any possibility for constructive criticism.

    Plus, remember that a revolution is not a solution in itself. If you don't have anything good to replace the old with, you will likely just descend into an even worse situation.

    @blob said:

    This is not at all something my original post is guilty of.

    Your post takes that and does the same from the exactly opposite side. If you are trying to be constructive, an approach like that is not helping.

  • blobblob Posts: 187Member, PRO

    @pHghost said:
    Plus, remember that a revolution is not a solution in itself. If you don't have anything good to replace the old with, you will likely just descend into an even worse situation.

    don't get me wrong i do understand all you're saying
    But I do think there's a time for revolution then another for reconstruction.

    As for replacement and reconstruction, I'm trying with this, as you know.
    http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/93470/vote-for-gamesalad-to-become-open-source/p1

  • blobblob Posts: 187Member, PRO
    edited December 2016

    @pHghost said:
    Plus, remember that a revolution is not a solution in itself. If you don't have anything >good to replace the old with,

    Since you asked.....

    Dear GameSalad, @ForumNinja @adent42
    Open up the creator code base to a few able people, since you are letting it rot.
    Nothing to lose from this, all to gain.
    See where it leads us, while you focus on the Web Tool.
    Don't put all your eggs in the same tiny baskets.
    You might end up with 2 wonderful products! for 2 very different user bases and twice the income.

    Letting a product rot is a market opportunity and monetary waste.
    I tend to think that letting other users (chosen or not by GS team) have a go at it, see if they can clean the code, maintain it and grow it, if not for anything, as an experiment, cost very little.
    I 'm not asking GS team to maintain it or be involved.
    It might also keep our community engaged and curious until next year.
    We got an ok build right now to fold back on.

    Let us create an experimental build at least until "back to school" next year.

    I do realize it means dealing with millions of code lines and a very complex messy code base and this is likely to fail, but It might also surprise everyone, yet without trying, we are sure to get nothing.
    I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of certain people here. all it take is one or two guys.
    Games Salad coders were hired too, they weren't born with special GameSalad coding powers....so others may be just as beneficials to the code base.
    Moreover, i would not underestimate self motivated reasons to improve the software, sometime it's more powerful than salary incentives.
    Unreal engine lets people fiddle with their code and it's an infinitely more complex software. yet the Unreal team constantly add user created code bits and pieces to the main branch....

    If you are unable to take care of our beloved Creator until September 2017 nor interested or understanding of the benefits of a controlled open source model.

    So why not giving the keys to an experimental version of the Creator to us, at least until then?

    All you need is a disclaimer: download at your own risk. non official Creator build. All right reserved.

    they're always going to be naysayers, I could even be my own devil's advocate,, i realize this would not be a short easy road but I like it better than nothing at all.
    A slow laborious experiment with huge potentially for everyone upstream is better than sitting still.

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,478Member

    I'm in love with this thread :D

  • DigiChainDigiChain Posts: 1,215Member, PRO

    @Two.E - awesome! :D

  • stragstrag Posts: 520Member, PRO

    Anyone fancy a pint?

  • PixelNautGamesPixelNautGames Posts: 44Member

    @The_Gamesalad_Guru you made a login system with GS? PM me! I'd appreciate it I need your help.

  • johnnymagnejohnnymagne NorwayPosts: 112Member

    It is quite clear to me; we are some forumers here that are driven into madness because of love, and I guess The Clash prophetically sums it up quite well in their song "Should I stay or should I go":

    If you prefer the lyrics, here they are:

    Darling you got to let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?
    If you say that you are mine
    I'll be here 'til the end of time
    So you got to let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?

    It's always tease, tease, tease
    You're happy when I'm on my knees
    One day it's fine and next it's black
    So if you want me off your back
    Well, come on and let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?

    Should I stay or should I go now?
    Should I stay or should I go now?
    If I go, there will be trouble
    And if I stay it will be double
    So come on and let me know

    This indecision's bugging me
    If you don't want me, set me free
    Exactly whom I'm supposed to be
    Don't you know which clothes even fit me?
    Come on and let me know
    Should I cool it or should I blow?

    Should I stay or should I go now?
    Should I stay or should I go now?
    If I go there will be trouble
    And if I stay it will be double
    So ya gotta let me know
    Should I cool it or should I blow?

    Should I stay or should I go now?
    If I go there will be touble
    And if I stay it wil be double
    So ya gotta let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?

  • fmakawafmakawa Posts: 557Member

    @Two.E said:
    TL;DR:

    >

    Still laughing!!!

  • hybridhybrid Posts: 178Member, PRO

    @Two.E Best and more useful post of all XD

    No doubt gamesalad forums its the best.
    make the best of everything XD
    no wonder why for many its one of the reasons to not leave

    should be featured as a product exclusive in main page!

  • GreenfroggGamesGreenfroggGames Posts: 224Member

    @Two.E That was brilliant :) made me laugh

  • imGuaimGua Posts: 1,089Member
    edited December 2016
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