the App Store needs to "mature" IMHO
Ignis
Member Posts: 72
Hey all,
Just checking in after quite some time to see what's new; personally taking a brief hiatus (as short as possible!) from actual game development, pondering some new ideas, etc...
Anyway, I wanted to start a discussion/poll on a topic I've been pondering lately. Who else thinks that the base price (99 cents) of App Store apps is laughably, absurdly cheap?
I mean seriously, less than a dollar for a game? I don't want to sound like some old geezer, but "back in my day" (high school student in the early 90s) I was a huge addict of the Ultima series. I remember waiting and waiting and saving up the few dollars that came my direction to buy a copy of Ultima VII: The Black Gate, still a game I place in the Top 10 of games ever created. And I paid 79 dollars for it. Seventy-nine frickin' dollars, plus tax!!! Now, it was totally worth the price and it came with a nice box, beautiful cloth map, nice printed manual, etc. etc...
But now, App Store games typically cost 99 cents??? As a budding game developer who wants to sell games in said marketplace, I sincerely want to see the App Store "mature", with better games that cost considerably more... $8, $15, even $30. Heck, you can't buy any decent console game for less than $30, as far as I know. Why is the typical iPhone game 1/30th of that price?
Of course it all breaks down to age-old marketing and "bang for the buck". Sell 10,000 copies at 99 cents, or sell 100 copies at $15? When does quality dictate a higher price? Some games are worth considerably more than 99 cents... "Angry Birds" for example; I would have paid $20 for that considering how much fun it's been. Other games aren't even worth 99 cents. The lucky idiots (now millionaires) who created "Doodle Jump" should be paying me for wasting the bandwidth to download that mindless app (turns on flame shield against any rabid fans of Doodle Jump
)
Anyway, I digress. What bothers me is that the new "standard" has become 99 cents, and I wonder how (or if) that will ever change. People almost expect an app to be priced at the lowest tier, otherwise they won't even buy it. I don't claim that all games should cost $5 or $50, but certainly, aren't some of them worth that? Or if they aren't priced that high, maybe they should be? Maybe consumers should start acknowledging the effort that goes into some games and pay accordingly. I'd be among first in line to foot the bill for quality...
And on that note, here's a funny comic on this very subject...
http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps
Brent
Just checking in after quite some time to see what's new; personally taking a brief hiatus (as short as possible!) from actual game development, pondering some new ideas, etc...
Anyway, I wanted to start a discussion/poll on a topic I've been pondering lately. Who else thinks that the base price (99 cents) of App Store apps is laughably, absurdly cheap?
I mean seriously, less than a dollar for a game? I don't want to sound like some old geezer, but "back in my day" (high school student in the early 90s) I was a huge addict of the Ultima series. I remember waiting and waiting and saving up the few dollars that came my direction to buy a copy of Ultima VII: The Black Gate, still a game I place in the Top 10 of games ever created. And I paid 79 dollars for it. Seventy-nine frickin' dollars, plus tax!!! Now, it was totally worth the price and it came with a nice box, beautiful cloth map, nice printed manual, etc. etc...
But now, App Store games typically cost 99 cents??? As a budding game developer who wants to sell games in said marketplace, I sincerely want to see the App Store "mature", with better games that cost considerably more... $8, $15, even $30. Heck, you can't buy any decent console game for less than $30, as far as I know. Why is the typical iPhone game 1/30th of that price?
Of course it all breaks down to age-old marketing and "bang for the buck". Sell 10,000 copies at 99 cents, or sell 100 copies at $15? When does quality dictate a higher price? Some games are worth considerably more than 99 cents... "Angry Birds" for example; I would have paid $20 for that considering how much fun it's been. Other games aren't even worth 99 cents. The lucky idiots (now millionaires) who created "Doodle Jump" should be paying me for wasting the bandwidth to download that mindless app (turns on flame shield against any rabid fans of Doodle Jump
)Anyway, I digress. What bothers me is that the new "standard" has become 99 cents, and I wonder how (or if) that will ever change. People almost expect an app to be priced at the lowest tier, otherwise they won't even buy it. I don't claim that all games should cost $5 or $50, but certainly, aren't some of them worth that? Or if they aren't priced that high, maybe they should be? Maybe consumers should start acknowledging the effort that goes into some games and pay accordingly. I'd be among first in line to foot the bill for quality...
And on that note, here's a funny comic on this very subject...
http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps
Brent
Comments
I think up to $15 for a huge game, perhaps - but no more than that. At least not yet. At the end of the day this isn't really a gaming device, not REALLY - I mean it is getting closer and closer to that, but it isn't there yet.
You can buy old PS1 games for $5 or $10 - and an iPhone can't (yet) run anything that intense.
Anyway, that's just my feelings on it, I'm sure some will disagree.
This is similar to how Microsoft handles the XBox store(s). You have the XNA (mostly crap), and then the real live store (Pro's).
simple example.
I downloaded the demo for "zenonia 2". I played it for 2h straight until I got the "buy the full version screen". 2 freaking hours. thats a lot thinking it was only the demo!
so i looked up for the full version expecting to see it AT LEAST for $4.99.
my surprise was that it is actually ONLY $1.99.
Thats just terrible. I would happily pay more for this game, and several others, and thats what SHOULD happen.
I probably wouldn't pay anything over 20 bucks for my ipod, after all, it really isn't a gaming device.
But $4.99? sure! damn. all I have to do is not drink 3 beers and I can buy me a game.
$0.99 i think is just sad really.
unfortunately since it is becoming the "normal price" we have to try to play with it.
I wouldn't really support or enjoy a "restriction" on the language. I think other tools/engines could be used, but most important, Apple would take a much closer look at the game/app to determine its quality. Not just: "Is the game 90% stable and does it rotate depending on the device orientation? PASS!". Yes, I know there's actually alot more involved in Apple's approval process, but with many games I've tried, it's obvious that the Apple reviewer didn't care one lick if the game is polished, reasonably fun, and contains at least enough longevity to warrant a potentially higher price.
A Pro Store would solve many many problems. I think the current store is so cluttered, there's absolutely no way they can "clean it out" as you say. To do so would mean outright deleting a vast number of apps, or going back and re-assessing their quality one by one. Either method would cause a screaming outrage heard across the world, and Apple knows they could never pull it off without a media and community backlash. Initiating a Pro Store, however, would work very nicely...
I also agree, kill off the review system. I hurts more than it helps, in my opinion. As you say, alot of developers abuse it, even going so far as "hiring" people to give their games high ratings, thus luring in new customers. That's what apparently happened with "Doodle Jump": the creators found a clever and dishonest way to boost their ratings, and I (among thousands of others) were suckered into buying a game that was, honestly, rather crappy and appeared to be tossed together in three days by some high school students.
For REAL reviews, there are dozens of other legit sites where that can happen. GameSpot, IGN, CNET, TouchArcade, etc. etc. That's how we judged games in the "old days": with unbiased review sites and magazines.
big companies usually send out "review guides" with their games and are all over reviewers trying to control as much as possible.
so yeah. there are a few sites that are "legit", but I prefer hearing a "review" from a good friend, or someone I can relate to in "taste" then reading reviews in magazines and websites.
which means they can't charge more than $5.00.
You do know the mobile market existed long before the iOS devices, right? And people, *gasp* charged more!
They need to set some standers. There is to much crap to find the good stuff. You work hard for a month (with gamesalad) just to get buried if 100 pages of stuff that no one will ever buy.
They say no more fart apps yet every day a new on is approved. They should also delete any apps that have sold less the 50 in the past 6 months.
Clear up the clutter.
cheers
BTW, I LOVE the comic!
~CTM
Plus...shelf games require distribution, middlemen and retail cuts to get the game into your hands.
The app store is a direct market and an international market. Pricing is based on global valuation. $1 apps do better because they are more affordable for more users.
I believe that mobile device users are looking for quality and price is not a huge factor. I believe that you can reach a broader audience at a lower price...but to think you can charge $20 for a piece of software that took one person 3 weeks or less to develop is ridiculous. $1 is probably too much for most apps too.
I think Apple should introduce $1.29, $1.69 and $2.49 price tiers. They should also continue to refine and restructure the search, cataloging and ranking systems...as it heavily favors established apps and gives them an overwhelming advantage over new titles.
To create a pro user section will be virtual suicide for the small indie devs...careful what you wish for. The great thing about the app store is that it is an even playing field. If you get into a class system...the small guys will lose and the large companies will overwhelm and over power the store.
The app store is one of the most unique and fairest competition environments there is in the business. I've seen many...and this one is very fair. It gives two guys with an idea to become millionaires overnight (Doodle Jump) for about 4-6 months of work.
However...as with any market in tech...its highly competitive...both in price and products, competes globally, and changes rapidly. If you don't like the tech business (of which software is a part of)...where the hours are long, the risk is high, and the shelf life of products is lightning fast, and the prices are low...then you should get into another field.
I think $1 is fine. Our strategy is to create an app that we think could at least sell 20-50 units per day. Then do that 8 times a year. So that is 160-400 units per day after the first year. Assuming that some are more successful and some are flops...lets average that to a minimum of 250 units per day (after 1 year of releases). Then after 3 years of development you are up to about 600-700 units per day. At $1...that is about $450 per day (after Apple's cut) which is about $3000 per week or about $150K per year.
So to make a $100,000 annual salary...
You need to make about 1 app per month for 3 years priced at $1 that sell at least 15 per day each on average.
So you have to target making apps that you feel can sell 40-50 a day (to allow for flops) and you have to develop them quickly...but with high quality.
I see WAY TOO many crap-tards (crappy tap-tards) being generated...especially with GS. Those just aren't going to sell 40-50 per day. The games need to be really good and simple. But polished and fun.
So make quality stuff that is fun and in style...price it at a dollar and get 10 out to market per year. Do that for 3 years and you can start to make a decent living at this.
Then if you are lucky...you might get a monster hit and be able to retire sooner than most.
But if you aren't in it for the money...then this thread is irrelevant.
Who cares if there are a lot of crappy games, I don't see them anyway because I buy only what I see in top 10 or rarely top 100 - games that are of a good quality.
I mean for a indy to sell a 30$ mobile game is pure greed. The big studios have to sell expensive because they have a lot to cover for as synthesis mentioned, I work in one of those
I really really hope that Apple won't add a pro app store, I just don't see the need for one and I hope the big game studio are kept away as much as possible.
Indy devs are more than capable to make AAA mobile games!
You could say the same about graphic design. I've seen amazing art made from free applications and total world-ending garbage made with pro applications. It's always the creative force, not the expense of the product, that makes it great or something that makes you throw up a little bit. lol.
The Blair Witch Project cost $60,000 to make. It grossed over $140million.
More recently, Paranormal Activity was made for $11,000. It's grossed over $107million.
Being creative and making stuff needn't be expensive, and can bring great rewards. If it's good!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Similar to Hollywood, big studios like Gameloft or EA have almost 0 creativity as they prefer to play the same card over and over again, remakes, sequels, prequels. They rarely make a new franchise and when they do most of the time is something very similar to a previous one, just with different characters and graphics. I see this thing happening first hand and it's a bad thing.
Being small forces you to innovate and sometimes an indy dev can survive and succeed in a world dominated by big corporation with almost unlimited supply of money. Limbo is a perfect example for this but they did some big investments until Microsoft backed them up.
I just think that a pro appstore will ruin the creativity.
If an indie isnt willing to put up some cash, they he/she probably isn't making anything worthwhile.
And the analogy with a real store doesn't really apply to the appstore where you have several ways to find the best games represented by the tops (10, 100, grossing, etc)
Good games still have a fair chance to make it on the appstore against games that invest tons of money in marketing.
They do separate us when we register our accounts with Apple by the dev license pricing.
Seems to me they should start by giving those with true professional accounts (the $300 account) some separate treatment on the app store.
That would start to separate serious devs from hobbyists...as they are operating as a business entity.
BTW
Indie = independent developer
In regards to Apple...its the developer license that dictates whether you are indie or not.
To me...if you are for profit...then you aren't a hobbyist.
Amateur status is a matter of opinion (or professional credentials). I guess you could say we are all amateurs...as I don't know of any "game developer credentials" being issued by Apple.
I think the intent of the "New and Noteworthy" sections of Apple are part of the way to allow good stuff to be introduced and sorted out from the rest. IMO...they need to expand the featured sections with subsections and more inclusion.
Sections like Lifestyle and Entertainment need to be sub divided too...similar to the game store. Its virtually impossible to get noticed in there. At least with games...you get more exposure via those sub categories.