POLYGAMe's Thoughts on the "New" GS - This could be Good

AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
Hey guys,

I'll start off by saying that I, like you, was pretty peeved when I read the plans for the new version of GS, but after doing a lot of thinking, I've come to the conclusion that this really could be a step in the right direction.

Most of you seem to have the number one concern/complaint of not being able to publish under your own name. At the end of the day, does this matter? All of the top games utilise a publisher. AND, if GS put some decent quality control in play (they will HAVE TO for the success of their business), being associated with GameSalad could be an absolute bonus. If all goes to plan, GS will establish themselves as a quality publisher and the only publisher that provides the means to create the games! And you can always throw in your own credits and splash screens... just like every production house in the history of videogames has done when dealing with publishers.

I realise that this would mean there'd be a lot of people out there who would only be hurt by GS having their app rejected but at the end of the day, that's a good thing! They will simply have to try harder... at the end of the day, quality will always win over quantity and we all know how painful it can be wading through the crap in the App Store.

The other thing that you seem to be worried about is the royalties. Yes, this is a bit out of the blue but compare this to any other form of publishing.... 50% of the total profits is STILL massive and you don't have to pay for your creation tools or maintain your dev account. I for one am actually for this. My dev account just ran out and I'm not going to renew... Max Vector only made me $300 while it was paid (over a period of a month). Take away the $99 for GS, the $99 for Apple and I'm left with $102. I would have had $150 if the new GS was in play. So for smaller devs, who only release the odd game every few months, the new system will be more than likely be beneficial. Obviously with runaway successes like Bumps, the royalties would be nice to pocket, but for most of us, that isn't going to happen... if it does, you'll still have a heap of coin and a nice, warm fuzzy success feeling.

Of course, things could go HORRIBLY wrong if GS don't filter the filth from the fantastic.

At the end of the day, I think we just need to wait and see. The update should be good and this new business plan really does make it easier for newcomers to get their own creations out there. All this "serious devs won't use GS" is moot. GS ISN'T FOR SERIOUS DEVS. It's for people who can't, or don't want to code, and for now, GS is the only option.

I think that GameSalad Direct is making things much more user friendly and I'm looking forward to the update so I can test the whole thing out properly. Obviously there are down sides but, on the whole, I think this could work out very well for a lot of us.
«1

Comments

  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    2 questions?...
    What if there is no censor/filter?
    If there is a censor...What if they filter your app out?

    The point is...with a publisher...you no longer have control. And you get paid when they say you get paid...and at the rate they choose!
  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    We don't need a new thread
  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Member Posts: 1,114
    If theyre filtering games...then that means a much lower number of games will get published...thus lowering the amount of money GameSalad is going to make via the publishing system.

    So to make up for that, theyre going to either need massive hits, or, theyre going to need to up the % they charge.

    If most of the games are going to be of the amateur variety (as quote "GS ISNT FOR SERIOUS DEVS"), theyre not going to get many games that really stand a chance of being major hits.

    So your theory of how it will benefit all doesnt really seem to work.....

    And well, the no filter method just means a publisher with a catalogue containing a couple of gems, surrounded by !@#$%....

    So again...cant really see how it can work....
  • 8BitMichael8BitMichael Member, PRO Posts: 125
    The whole point of this update is to lower the barrier of entry, which means no filter.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    synthesis said:
    2 questions?...
    What if there is no censor/filter?
    If there is a censor...What if they filter your app out?

    The point is...with a publisher...you no longer have control. And you get paid when they say you get paid...and at the rate they choose!

    1. Exactly why I said it could all go horribly wrong if they DON'T put some sort of quality control into play.

    2. I try again and make something not crap.

    And yes, that's how publishers work. They always have.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    Chunkypixels said:
    If theyre filtering games...then that means a much lower number of games will get published...thus lowering the amount of money GameSalad is going to make via the publishing system.

    So to make up for that, theyre going to either need massive hits, or, theyre going to need to up the % they charge.

    If most of the games are going to be of the amateur variety (as quote "GS ISNT FOR SERIOUS DEVS"), theyre not going to get many games that really stand a chance of being major hits.

    So your theory of how it will benefit all doesnt really seem to work.....

    This just comes down to basic business principles. They need to be thinking long term. Over time, the hits will come and more and more quality titles will emerge. If they DON'T filter the crAPPS, GS will go down in flames as nigh on every release under their name will be terrible and people will simply stop buying. Simple, really. If they don't realise that then they are doomed and we'll all be off somewhere else.
  • EastboundEastbound Member, BASIC Posts: 1,074
    If Gamesalad is going to remain "for the rest of us" they will not have high barriers to entry. This will mean quality apps are associated with utter crap.

    If Gamesalad raises their standards, the hobbyists will lose out. And maybe this is the new business model, I don't know.

    I do know that Gamesalad cannot go on as it is due to this glaring contradiction, so all we can do is wait for more information. Again.
  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    POLYGAMe said:
    1. Exactly why I said it could all go horribly wrong if they DON'T put some sort of quality control into play.

    2. I try again and make something not crap.

    And yes, that's how publishers work. They always have.

    1) So assuming they are NOT going to filter...seeing as that only reducing the apps in the app store...thus lowering their income... >>> This is not going to happen most likely.
    2) What if they say..."still not good enough"...try again...and again...and again...and again...

    So which part of your theory "could be good?" assuming that there is no filtering...and if so...your games don't make the grade?
  • BackUpAndDownBackUpAndDown Member Posts: 685
    Do you just have to pay the royalties? or do you also have to pay per game you upload? (like some people were motioning)
  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    @BackUp...

    There will be a tax to submit the game to the app store and then you will pay a % of earning. So if you sell an app...Apple takes a cut...then sends your money to GS. Then they take a cut and send you what is left over...probably about 35-45% of the original gross sales. Then you give your government a 1/3 to 1/2 of that.

    So you will need to sell twice as many to make up for the revenue split. Plus you have a tariff to publish. Many speculate that will be between $10-25 per app...probably per year.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    Eastbound said:
    If Gamesalad is going to remain "for the rest of us" they will not have high barriers to entry. This will mean quality apps are associated with utter crap.

    If Gamesalad raises their standards, the hobbyists will lose out. And maybe this is the new business model, I don't know.

    I do know that Gamesalad cannot go on as it is due to this glaring contradiction, so all we can do is wait for more information. Again.

    Most GS devs, even the successful ones are hobbyists. Many people are very good at their hobbies.
  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    POLYGAMe said:
    Many people are very good at their hobbies.

    Many people are not...who is the judge? GameSalad? Apple? The market?

    Who do you trust to be the judge and jury?
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    synthesis said:
    1) So assuming they are NOT going to filter...seeing as that only reducing the apps in the app store...thus lowering their income... >>> This is not going to happen most likely.
    2) What if they say..."still not good enough"...try again...and again...and again...and again...

    So which part of your theory "could be good?" assuming that there is no filtering...and if so...your games don't make the grade?

    1. Like I said, if they don't filter, we are screwed. GS has a bad enough name out there as it is.

    2. Try again and again and again, or realise that I'm crap at making games and give up. Like I said earlier, they don't need to be complete nazis about it but some kind of quality control is a must. Nintendo has it... many games get through, we'd consider crap... but they are still published. Those "crap" Nintendo games are not just slightly edited GS templates or totally rushed and buggy taptard games. They still meet certain quality requirements.
  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Member Posts: 1,114
    @Eastbound youve highlighted one of GameSalads biggest problems..... trying to cater to the widest audience meant that they were developing, and trying to sell a product to an audience that largely arent willing to pay what it should be worth.

    I'd hazard a guess that probably 60-70% of the GameSalad accounts are kids.... and most of those kids arent gonna realistically be able to pay any more than $99 for the software. So straight away, theyve pitched themselves at a market that for the most part dont have funds to support the software, and for the most part wont be looking at creating apps that would realistically have the quality to be succesful apps and generate decent royalties under the new scheme.

    Dont get me wrong...nothing against kids.... I used to be one myself...but its not really the target market for building a succesful dev tool business on.

    Instead of trying for the "everyone" market, they really need to be thinking more selectively, and building a product to match.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    synthesis said:
    Many people are not...who is the judge? GameSalad? Apple? The market?

    Who do you trust to be the judge and jury?

    Apple should have been all along. Do you like wading through the crap in the App Store?
  • design219design219 Member Posts: 2,273
    POLYGAMe said:
    they don't need to be complete nazis about it but some kind of quality control is a must.

    I can't imagine that GameSalad is looking forward to the kinds of arguments and bad feelings that will come from having to subjectively filter games. I don't see it happening.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    design219 said:
    I can't imagine that GameSalad is looking forward to the kinds of arguments and bad feelings that will come from having to subjectively filter games. I don't see it happening.

    Then... we're DOOOOOMED. Anyway, like I said... just my thoughts on the matter... not what should or shouldn't be done. I'm no business man... the guys behind GS with the million dollars are. HOPEFULLY GOOD ONES. We just need to wait and see.
  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    POLYGAMe said:
    Apple should have been all along. Do you like wading through the crap in the App Store?

    No...but GS's new business model just made themselves the King Kong Crap App Sausage Maker.

    1) Answer: There will not be any filtering. This will reduce volume and GS wants volume. Is this acceptable?
    2) Answer: Your apps are solid...do you want to give GS half your profits and all of your control? If so...why? Are you comfortable being surrounded by craptards?

    If you answer NO to anything above...then your OP title is flawed.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    I still think that there should be an option for self-publishing, FYI. But I do think this could work, too.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    I still think that there should be an option for self-publishing, FYI. But I do think this could work, too.
  • Sunny_1etha1Sunny_1etha1 Member Posts: 41
    Assuming the existing Pro feature-set is incorporated into the new, improved (?) GS, isn't there something to be said for the ability to incorporate links to the rest of your (you, developer, not GS) games from within your app itself, without paying $2000 for the privilege? That's got to be worth something, too.
  • BeyondtheTechBeyondtheTech Member Posts: 809
    It will appear that there will be a minimal fee to submit a game to GameSalad, regardless of whether it's free or not. This should cover their basic administrative costs for them to submit to Apple.

    There will also be a revenue split, meaning a cut on the net sales of your game. What percentage this could be is unclear, or whether or not it's tiered against the number of titles you already have with them, or if it increases/decreases, depending on the amount of sales.

    Again, while the ability to publish on your own is one thing that's important to many subscribers here, my two issues are 1. whether or not GameSalad can be a viable publisher, and 2. if GameSalad can shake off the bad stigma of crap games. Look at the first comment on TUAW and countless posts on TouchArcade. We're hated as a whole. Like the Bad News Bears.
  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Member Posts: 1,114
    I think theyre simply going to have to rethink it all.... take a few steps backwards, apologise to the community and come up with a new, revised plan.

    Theyre going to get so much negative publicity and feedback from this that to continue with it is just going to lead to a mass exodus of users, industry derision amongst indie devs and commercial suicide.

    So Im expecting a few days of silence, while they weigh up the response and general feedback, before they announce ditching the plan for something else.....
  • synthesissynthesis Member Posts: 1,693
    POLYGAMe said:
    I'm no business man... the guys behind GS with the million dollars are. HOPEFULLY GOOD ONES. We just need to wait and see.

    The suits that implemented this are basically doing a low stakes gamble (for them) to see if they can corner a portion of the app store market and peel revenue off of Apple...since they are the only ones in the black right now in this economy. They are sitting on billions in cash and see a small chance of success here against the paltry $1M they threw at it. If it succeeds (long shot) then they carve out a slice of Apple's big pie. If it fails...no big deal...to them. But GS disappears as a result.

    This is a small venture for them. And their move is not in line with the principles of Indie Game Dev. The numbers of people out there with the desire and/or talent to build marketable games willing to accept such a subscription model are limited...and therefore I just cannot see a clear profit coming from this for them...and I suspect GS will be gone within 12-18 mo.
  • AfterBurnettAfterBurnett Member Posts: 3,474
    synthesis said:
    No...but GS's new business model just made themselves the King Kong Crap App Sausage Maker.

    1) Answer: There will not be any filtering. This will reduce volume and GS wants volume. Is this acceptable?
    2) Answer: Your apps are solid...do you want to give GS half your profits and all of your control? If so...why? Are you comfortable being surrounded by craptards?

    If you answer NO to anything above...then your OP title is flawed.

    Not flawed at all. I said that this whole thing WOULDN'T work if there was no filtering. If there is, it could be a good thing.

    That makes your next point moot... there wouldn't be those craptard apps if the filters were engaged. But yeah, giving an extra percentage and control would be fine by me if it helped my game sell... which would be beneficial to me and GS.

    I believe that GS will stand to make a whole heap more cash from this system by getting the royalties from fewer, better games than a load of shovelware that doesn't sell anyway. After all... you actually need to sell copies for GS to get their cut (EDIT: of course they do take their publishing fee, so that kinda makes this point null and void)... so it would be in their best interests if the games they were pushing were of a decent quality.

    Once again, there are many successful publishers... you think they take on any old game?

    EDIT: At the end of the day, who knows? We all just have to wait and see... we all know GS aren't exactly good at listening to the community so there's not really much we can do for now.
  • butterbeanbutterbean Member Posts: 4,315
    Chunkypixels said:
    I think theyre simply going to have to rethink it all.... take a few steps backwards, apologise to the community and come up with a new, revised plan.

    Theyre going to get so much negative publicity and feedback from this that to continue with it is just going to lead to derision and commercial suicide.

    So Im expecting a few days of silence, while they weigh up the response and general feedback, before they announce ditching the plan for something else.....

    I REALLY hope you are right.

    Watching them institute this plan is like watching a speeding vehicle drive towards a cliff, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop it.
  • gregr209gregr209 Member Posts: 441
    I want to see A HUGE, GIANT 'We're SORRY' from them. Don't expect to get it given their lack of overall customer service skills and attitude towards us. But it would go a long way in helping heal the wounds inflicted today.
  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    synthesis said:
    The suits that implemented this are basically doing a low stakes gamble (for them) to see if they can corner a portion of the app store market and peel revenue off of Apple...since they are the only ones in the black right now in this economy. They are sitting on billions in cash and see a small chance of success here against the paltry $1M they threw at it. If it succeeds (long shot) then they carve out a slice of Apple's big pie. If it fails...no big deal...to them. But GS disappears as a result.

    iPad messing up...but spot on synth

    This is a small venture for them. And their move is not in line with the principles of Indie Game Dev. The numbers of people out there with the desire and/or talent to build marketable games willing to accept such a subscription model are limited...and therefore I just cannot see a clear profit coming from this for them...and I suspect GS will be gone within 12-18 mo.

  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    Yep if all current gs devs stand their ground what are they going to be releasing with this great new product...jack. Hardly a great launch...
  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Member Posts: 1,114
    butterbean said:
    I REALLY hope you are right.

    Watching them institute this plan is like watching a speeding vehicle drive towards a cliff, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop it.

    I really hope Im right too....

    I can sometimes come across as being overly critical regarding GameSalad, but its only because I would like to see it go in the right direction, and be the product it could be....

    I'd like to continue using it, and see it evolve and grow. But the newly announced plans really kill it for me as a tool i can invest my time and effort into.. and i think thats going to be the same for the majority of users.
Sign In or Register to comment.