Math and GameSalad Direct® — Why it doesn't work for Pros!
Photics
Member Posts: 4,172
I think the information contained in this post is important for a new thread...
Did the GameSalad team actually try doing the math? GameSalad Direct® seems like a bad idea as the only option for the software.
How many developers here made over $20,000 in a year? Aside from Tshirtbooth and Firemaplegames, I don't know of any. Even Darren, with Bumps, topped out around $10,000. So... follow that to the logical result. Even if the top developers stay — which many will not — GameSalad still loses.
What percentage are they going to take?!
5% from $10,000 = $500
10% from $10,000 = $1000
Is Gendai Games really going to take more than a 10% cut? Lulu, one of the highest priced third-party aggregators for iBooks takes a 20% cut after Apple takes their 30% cut. That's like 16% overall. So... is Gendai Games going to go with a 20% cut?
20% from $10,000 = $2000
OK, so the GameSalad team might be hoping to take 20% from a $10,000+ developer. How many of those do we have here? I highly doubt Utopian Games is down with the new business model. That leaves what... two people?! The Professionals who cannot allow third-party branding on their apps, that business is lost totally. How does GameSalad Direct® make money for the GameSalad team at the professional developer level?
Logically, this plan seems flawed. Not only has the community been needlessly frustrated for over a week... not only has GameSalad Direct® damaged the reputation of the company and the software... but how does this plan even make money?
Is GameSalad going to take a 25% cut? ...a 30% cut? ...a 50% cut? The higher the percentage, the more customers will leave.
I think the average GameSalad developer makes less than $2000 per year. If Pro was priced at $500-$750, developers are more likely to purchase the software. In their minds, they've more than doubled their investment. They feel independent. They speak of GameSalad well and encourage their friends to participate. It leaves it up to the developer to sell their games. Even if the developer never finishes a game, GameSalad already got paid.
It seems like GameSalad Direct® is more work... for a service most developers don't want... to make less money.
In order for GameSalad Direct® to work, there has to be a divide between the beginners and the developers. Not only in the interest of making the community happy, but also in the interest of the company making money.
With Pro, GameSalad actually gets a higher percentage...
Average GameSalad developer gross revenue... $2500.
New suggested price of Pro... $595.
(GameSalad is easier to use than competitors, so the moderately higher price is reasonable.)
That's basically similar to 24% cut — without the headache of paper work, like 1099 forms and sending checks to developers. So unless GameSalad wants to be one of the highest priced "aggregators" in the industry, the Pro model could actually be far more money overall for GameSalad. Once again, the higher the GameSalad Direct® cut, the less likely people will want to use GameSalad Direct®. At 5%-10% people might not care. Perhaps the extra marketing power could justify that percentage. At 20% and up, people start thinking... "Hey, Corona is not that hard to learn."
I don't see how the math works. GameSalad Direct® is not a terrible idea. It's an excellent way to attract new GameSalad developers. However, once that developer becomes more professional, GameSalad lacks an option to keep their business.
Did the GameSalad team actually try doing the math? GameSalad Direct® seems like a bad idea as the only option for the software.
How many developers here made over $20,000 in a year? Aside from Tshirtbooth and Firemaplegames, I don't know of any. Even Darren, with Bumps, topped out around $10,000. So... follow that to the logical result. Even if the top developers stay — which many will not — GameSalad still loses.
What percentage are they going to take?!
5% from $10,000 = $500
10% from $10,000 = $1000
Is Gendai Games really going to take more than a 10% cut? Lulu, one of the highest priced third-party aggregators for iBooks takes a 20% cut after Apple takes their 30% cut. That's like 16% overall. So... is Gendai Games going to go with a 20% cut?
20% from $10,000 = $2000
OK, so the GameSalad team might be hoping to take 20% from a $10,000+ developer. How many of those do we have here? I highly doubt Utopian Games is down with the new business model. That leaves what... two people?! The Professionals who cannot allow third-party branding on their apps, that business is lost totally. How does GameSalad Direct® make money for the GameSalad team at the professional developer level?
Logically, this plan seems flawed. Not only has the community been needlessly frustrated for over a week... not only has GameSalad Direct® damaged the reputation of the company and the software... but how does this plan even make money?
Is GameSalad going to take a 25% cut? ...a 30% cut? ...a 50% cut? The higher the percentage, the more customers will leave.
I think the average GameSalad developer makes less than $2000 per year. If Pro was priced at $500-$750, developers are more likely to purchase the software. In their minds, they've more than doubled their investment. They feel independent. They speak of GameSalad well and encourage their friends to participate. It leaves it up to the developer to sell their games. Even if the developer never finishes a game, GameSalad already got paid.
It seems like GameSalad Direct® is more work... for a service most developers don't want... to make less money.
In order for GameSalad Direct® to work, there has to be a divide between the beginners and the developers. Not only in the interest of making the community happy, but also in the interest of the company making money.
With Pro, GameSalad actually gets a higher percentage...
Average GameSalad developer gross revenue... $2500.
New suggested price of Pro... $595.
(GameSalad is easier to use than competitors, so the moderately higher price is reasonable.)
That's basically similar to 24% cut — without the headache of paper work, like 1099 forms and sending checks to developers. So unless GameSalad wants to be one of the highest priced "aggregators" in the industry, the Pro model could actually be far more money overall for GameSalad. Once again, the higher the GameSalad Direct® cut, the less likely people will want to use GameSalad Direct®. At 5%-10% people might not care. Perhaps the extra marketing power could justify that percentage. At 20% and up, people start thinking... "Hey, Corona is not that hard to learn."
I don't see how the math works. GameSalad Direct® is not a terrible idea. It's an excellent way to attract new GameSalad developers. However, once that developer becomes more professional, GameSalad lacks an option to keep their business.
Comments
i think you are right so far...
but...
what will happen when Gamesalad becomes a professional tool that is able to produce very polished and fast running games?
Maybee GendaiGames is able to optimize the engine a lot more or time will simply bring up more powerful devices ...
This day when you are able to produce AAA-Super-Games with Gamesalad would be the day when GendaiGames starts to make a lot more money with taking a cut from the sales...
By reducing the barrier to entry onto the app store (no apple, no subs....maybe no mac??? etc) they are hoping to pull in a huge amount of new customers.
Say for example in the first year they pull in 30,000 new users, 30,000 percentages of a lot of small or average sales all of a sudden starts to add up. And that's before you you factor in any games/apps that do better than the average.
Also remember they are charging to build too.
Its a pretty robust new business model imo...for THEM...not for many existing customers however.
The part that gets me is that, in the FAQ, they don't seem like they're going to act like a real publisher (in terms of supplying additional marketing power) until your title starts making some inroads on the AppStore. Add the fact that they mention that the more successful your title is, the less of a cut they'll take. From one angle, that sounds a bit backwards. Like late-night infomercials and all those as-seen-on-TV products, a publisher would be pushing your title out like it's the greatest thing to happen since the iPhone was announced.
I wouldn't hire a publisher just for the sake of having one. They have to earn that 5%-10% or whatever from me, and furthermore, I should have the ability to buy them out. That's what the Pro option should be there for.
I keep saying that $99 was too cheap and $1999 was too expensive. Especially for beta software. It allowed junk to flood the AppStore and didn't put food on Gendai's table. Making it even cheaper can allow more junk, with them acting as a floodgate to determine whether or not it's worth it or ready to publish. Remember, now that they're calling the shots, it's not just Apple watching if the app will crash or if it's inappropriate, but GameSalad on top of that to make sure it's good enough. In a way that's good, but they might shoot themselves in the foot if they're bombarded with a bunch of even worse newbies that can't put a game together for the life of them, and maybe they'll just sit back collecting submission fees as their income.
I want them to succeed, but they've got to get on the ball with a compromise.
They can keep their GS direct plan to attract new developers, but they NEED to add a Pro option, otherwise it's simply not worth it, and most of the PRO developers don't want or need a publisher!
Lets say I'm gonna roughly make $1000 in a year. (which is about right)
I've made one app and one game. (Contented Baby, and Quake Builder).
If they took 10% (Which would be a fair amount and not deter me from using GS again)
They would of got $100, (same as my Express membership).
If I'd been a bit more pro-active, I would have finished a couple of more games, and it would not be unreasonable to assume $2000 a year is reachable with 4 to 6 half decent titles.
The more people that sign up (if its free why would'nt you give it a try) the more chance of lots of users earning $2000, and as those users get better at making their games and using GS they will not jump ship if they start earning $10,000. Why would they when they know GameSalad well and know they are earning good revenue from it. And it has the constant appeal of no code.
I know some people may leave due to the changes, but others might not have to as we are still going to be able to brand the games ourselves, control promo codes and have access to all the pro features (which as yet I've not used as I'm a poor little express user)
The quality won't go up, will it... ?
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Anyway, I agree. I don't like this new business model.
I think they have said there will be a GameSalad app you can download from the appstore for testing. So I would think you could download that to any test devices and then install your test version. Its only a guess but sounds like what the app would be used for. I'd hope there would a way to manage who can test the game. By giving them a number or something to enter.
Look, let them have Direct, but give more professional and more risk-taking users the ability to take off on their own. I can't see why they can't have the best of both worlds, and so can we.
@StormyStudio: You're not looking at the Pro side of things, you're looking at the hobbyist making a few games per year.
GS direct is great for them, low barrier for entry, and they don't have to worry about commissions too much because they're not making a living off it to begin with.
GS direct does not cater to those trying to make a living in the app store. It just won't work, and there will be very few, if no Pro GS devs left if they continue with this model alone.
I would like to make purdy games. But I have to pay an artist to make the game look purdy. I might have to pay a musician as well.
There are costs associated with making hobbyist games, just as much as 'pro' games. Making it harder to just break even is not going to encourage the hobbyists much either I'm afraid.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I think a 10% commission is not terrible... especially if GameSalad does a good job with marketing and works with developers to make better games.
It's a matter of goals. For many of us, publishing under a different brand is not an option. That's the problem. For beginners, having Direct and Pro gives beginners a goal. It shows that GameSalad is on the side of the developer, helping them grow.
When your fronting the costs of graphics and music, it's tough now adding an extra barrier to breaking even on an application.
@Photics: I agree so long as they give the option to developers for GS direct or Pro. None of us should be forced into a publisher scenario.
For Pros, it just doesn't make sense at all.
But overall, I agree that GS direct does not work for Pros, and it will be unfortunate if they don't take a serious look at the current model, and revise it.
I'm hopeful that GS will provide us with a Pro option, and still staying positive, otherwise it's back to square one for me, in learning another tool.
Just wondering, and I am no doubt being a dim wit here. I know we don't know 100% how its going to work. But if GS Direct lets you brand the games yourself. Control Promo codes. etc. Surely you can still run a business on that model.Tax returns and stuff can still show earnings just (I assume) paid from GameSalad and not from apple. Why is it not an option to publish under a different brand.
I'm not saying having Pro still available would'nt be a good thing. Just that if it is'nt available it might not be the end of GameSalad for the pro users.
Also @QS - Fully agree the cost of graphics and music come into play, but if its a true passion (which by the end of a hobbyist game it has become that) you'd probably be as happy paying out for the graphics and music with express membership as with Direct. Just for the love of making cool looking and sounding games.
Also I'm sure we've all been tempted by the bright lights of Pro at some point. So to have access to that, in a way your sort of saving $2000 a year, which is (imaginary) money that can be spent on music, graphics or Mac OsX Lion.
For Pros, and those of us trying to make a living off apps, they will be shelling out more money than 2K a year including commissions, upload fees and more.
They need to offer a Pro option as GS direct is simply not a viable option for the majority of Pro users.
And it's really unfortunate if they don't, because I love GS, but GS direct is in no way, a consideration for me.
I have pro right now. Honestly, the most useful feature is having my own splash-screen. That cute sheepy makes people smile right off the bat!
I'd resigned myself to getting the express version because 2k is too much for me (and most others-I'd originally paid $500 for the 'lite' version, which got upgraded to pro when the price went down to $99).
So I wouldn't have spent 2k on art and music - more like $500 maximum.
But if I *do* spend $500 it will be harder than it is *now* to make that money back.
Or, if I was offering a royalty scheme, suddenly the amount I can offer is reduced as GS takes its share.
Far as I can see, this whole system *discourages* investing resources in a game. You and I may take great pride in making our games, but people that spend just $30 to make an app aren't going to care enough I'd wager.
Sorry mate, I think we disagree
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
1) Cannon Basket (+ Cannon Basket HD) 800 $
2) Stone Wheel 2400 $ by iAd (570.000 downloads)
3) 300$ all other games (free or not)
Total of 3500$
Gendai are you SURE that you want a % of my revenue instead of 2000$ ??
It's weird, I've read through so many of the past few days comments on this and I guess its purely cause it suits me pretty well that I can't see the major problem with the big change.
I obviously do get why having a Pro option would be a plus. To essentially be able to pay to get out of contract with GameSalad and have any revenue earned on games published that year as your own.
But I still struggle to get my little noggin round it all being so incredibly terrible. It may be the baby induced lack of sleep for 9 months, or it may be the overly cold beer in front of me.
But....(Humour me here)...(plus we don't yet know what the revenue share amount may be.)
Lets say you've had some very successful apps, similar to the likes of Firemaple and T-shirt booth. You've earned an amazing $20,000, life is good. Even then if you had to pay out 10% thats your $2000 pro licence anyway.
So the way I see it (and yes i know "I'm wrong") is that the only people losing out are those earning over $20,000.
Unless its more that 10% then we are all in the sh**.
Like I say I'm sure I'm wrong, but hey lets have a debate anyway.
Oooh....baby is crying......
ooh baby fixed with a dummy/pacifier.
...and my new Apple TV is calling....hello my precious...so many films to rent...eeek..
Superman "Doomsday" it is...
There is probably just a lot that is unknown makinall this speculation basically irrelevant.
Also safe to assume gendak is hopping for a hit.
Who knows what sort of deal they have worked out to promote something like mini cannon too.
As it stands if they have no plans to manage it at all, then any Aussie is going to get shafted come tax time.
For the record, I do think they should retain a pro/self publish option.