Space Shooter (Danmaku) Theory! DETAILED review of Phoenix for iPhone.

FranzKeller

we need more game theory discussions here ;-)
we discuss HOW, but should never forget WHY! -



we need more game theory discussions here ;-)

but I've typed enough for today, just see the video...

quantumsheep

Thanks again, Mr. Keller, for another awesome vid! Really enjoyed it!

I've always like random elements in games. It keeps you on your toes!

A good example was the first Aliens vs Predator for the PC. Where the Aliens appeared would vary from game to game, so it increased the tension. You never really knew when an attack would come!

I felt the sequel (AvP2!) was far too scripted. Hit a switch, and an alien would come up through the floor. If you died, went back to the save game and hit the same switch, an alien would come up through the same place in the floor at the same time.

It effectively made the experience very dull and a memory game - "Oh, this is the part where three aliens come round the corridor..." - instead of a game of skill and reflexes.

Apply this to a shooter and you have a similar dilemma. Most arcade games (and console/mobile games) have you memorise patterns. R-Type is a good example, as is Nemesis/Salamander and a whole bunch of others.

The predictability of enemy waves was part of the game, and as you pointed out, gave a unified challenge which made leaderboards *mean* something.

I think that argument was levelled at Canabalt more recently.

You *can* put random elements in games though, and make them work. You could, for example, have three ships come in from the left side of the screen, but randomise the height at which they come in from. That would keep the challenge essentially the same (three ships every time), while slightly altering it every time (the height of the ships)

Franz, I'd be honoured to send you some early stuff on shooters I'm making - email me your UDIDs if you'd be interested:

quantumsheepinfo at googlemail dot com

Thanks again for an awesome vid!

QS

777ideas.com

your shooting looks great , do you make the shooting

quantumsheep

@kirk
It's auto-fire - you pick up upgrades as you play to get better weapons.

@Franz
I actually bought Phoenix yesterday thanks to your vid. I think you're right in a lot of your observations.

The background *does* change (eventually) as you get further in.

I'm not a fan of the 'just one life' idea - even if you do take multiple hits before being destroyed.

There's a distinct lack of any music - a shame - it's one of the strong points to any shooter really.

Other than that, it looks very nice, and the random idea behind it is interesting, as you pointed out. It's just not quite Left4Dead is it?

QS

Xpandemic

sorry wrong thread

kietz

This is interesting. Thanks for posting this, im making a game similar to this called Omicron (working title) but putting more emphasis on strategy. the one thing im having trouble with is to get the enemies challenging enough to be fun to play against.
Since there is no enemy a.i. my aliens spawn at random points kind of like this game. im trying to find ways to improve this.
Any ideas?

FranzKeller

oops, I didn't read these responses...
[Note that Phoenix has been upgraded, which improves some of the issues I had with it at review time.]

I'm not against random, I like random!
But it really seems that difficulty varies quite widely between plays of Phoenix,
meaning that you could waste quite a lot of time waiting for a lucky go through,
with just the right power ups.

A great word is "Stochastic" = semi random

I'm making more games also, which may include one of these danmaku ;-)
If only I can keep my attention focused on the single project long enough!

My worry is that the "lots of spawning = bad" issue could cause trouble
when making this type of game?

kietz said:
This is interesting. Thanks for posting this, im making a game similar to this called Omicron (working title) but putting more emphasis on strategy. the one thing im having trouble with is to get the enemies challenging enough to be fun to play against.
Since there is no enemy a.i. my aliens spawn at random points kind of like this game. im trying to find ways to improve this.
Any ideas?

You could use some weird equasion that isn't random to vary the placement?

Danmaku often seem to rely on complicated math to produce their patterns

Which may be my difficulty in making one! ha ha
I teach art, not math.

kietz

FranzKeller said:

Danmaku often seem to rely on complicated math to produce their patterns

Which may be my difficulty in making one! ha ha
I teach art, not math.

Yeah i teach art too, and hate math but hey, we gotta use it to make games. Thanks for the input, i guess ill go look up some calculus.
Man, people better buy my game. haha

FranzKeller

kietz said:
Yeah i teach art too, and hate math but hey, we gotta use it to make games. Thanks for the input, i guess ill go look up some calculus.
Man, people better buy my game. haha

the best game creator (at least at this "indie" level) must be a
"renisance man" (or woman, or robot) - an "all trades" type

ha ha, actually you can get apps from the "education" section to (re-)learn algebra and such! probably more fun than books...