Kill the plugin - HTML 5 is the future!

PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
GameSalad... drop the web plugin. It doesn't work well and there is a general resistance to web plugins. Even if the plugin worked properly, people might not install it... or even be able to install it.

And if Flash is creating a Flash-to-HTML 5 converter, it's pretty much over for plugins.

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Wallaby

Also, this can really move GameSalad into the professional realm. If it was a tool to create apps — AND HTML 5 CONTENT — it could be very popular software.

One of the reasons I prefer GameSalad is that it is thinking about web publishing. One of the long-term goals for my website is to create an online arcade at Photics.com. Yet, I realize that Flash is dying and that plugins are not going to work.

So, if GameSalad is serious about web publishing, it should be focusing on HTML 5 and not the GameSalad plugin.

Comments

  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    Did you mean HTML 5 or 6?
  • StusAppsStusApps Member, PRO Posts: 1,352
    The technology is not really up to that yet with html5. Sure adobes conversion utility is cool but it doesn't really support much yet. Just check out most available html5 games and very few are as advanced as gamesalad games. Be cool for the future though, another year or two maybe.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    StusApps said:
    The technology is not really up to that yet with html5.

    I don't think that's right. I've seen Pac Man to Quake II running in HTML 5. I think if there's a lack of technology, it's with Software Development Kits. That's why I think this is a huge opportunity for GameSalad. It solves one problem while creating new business.
  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    @Stu +1

    @Photics....tell that to Unity's 45 million installations currently running at 1 new a second, Kongregate, PigPoint, its all down to the installation experience. Unity get 90% follow through. When it works the GS plugin is excellent, and its currently working!
  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    rofl pacman
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    Rob2 said:
    @Photics....tell that to Unity's 45 million installations currently running at 1 new a second, Kongregate, PigPoint, its all down to the installation experience. Unity get 90% follow through. When it works the GS plugin is excellent, and its currently working!

    Heh, maybe you should tell that to the 100 million iPhone owners that can't run the Unity plugin on their phone. :)

    ...or the millions of iPad owners.
    ...or the millions of android users

    ...and you're laughing at Pac Man? Heh, one of the biggest games of all time?
  • Rob2Rob2 Member Posts: 2,402
    I was thinking desktop I guess, anyway you remember this from a few months back, http://rocketpack.fi/engine/ developing an HTML5 version of GS would be another massive job, lets just let them get on with fixing all the current stuff..yes :)
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    Rob2 said:
    I was thinking desktop I guess, anyway you remember this from a few months back, http://rocketpack.fi/engine/ developing an HTML5 version of GS would be another massive job, lets just let them get on with fixing all the current stuff..yes :)

    I'm not thinking this should be high priority, but it is something they're working on. So instead of trying to make something that works with every web browser, wouldn't it be easier to make something in HTML 5?

    As for Rocketpack, they just got acquired by Disney. I think that strengthens the importance of HTML 5.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33344/Disney_Acquires_HTML5_Game_Engine_Startup_Rocket_Pack.php

    Heh, I wonder if Disney would acquire GameSalad too.
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    StusApps said:
    The technology is not really up to that yet with html5. Sure adobes conversion utility is cool but it doesn't really support much yet. Just check out most available html5 games and very few are as advanced as gamesalad games. Be cool for the future though, another year or two maybe.

    not necessarily...

    ;)
  • dmilinovichiiidmilinovichiii Member Posts: 620
    Would this mean we could finally have firefox support? I don't know much about HTML5.
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    yep. and people could play our games on PCs which would REALLY help my science curriculum biz

    fingers crossed here
  • AquariusAquarius Member Posts: 282
    u know...when i read the thread title.... i imagined arnold saying "its da FEWTCHAAAAHHH!!!!

    [imageGIFSoup
  • StusAppsStusApps Member, PRO Posts: 1,352
    I see, you mean to use webgl for the playback. Well it's not really finished yet, final spec is approved but it's only supported in limited browsers so far and is considered beta in them (just chrome I think so far includes it as standard)
    Just because you read 'quake 2 in html5' in the headline it doesn't really tell the whole story. Certainly it won't work on iOS device browsers yet. Sure webgl will be a final piece of the canvas element in html5, give it about a year though before it's widespread enough to be a viable platform to launch to.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    StusApps said:
    Just because you read 'quake 2 in html5' in the headline it doesn't really tell the whole story.

    Well, yeah, there are technical challenges — like Box2D and Lua... can that really run in a web browser?!
    StusApps said:
    give it about a year though before it's widespread enough to be a viable platform to launch to.

    I read an article recently that Popcap was getting frustrated with plugin problems. So, they switched their games to Flash.

    http://www.industrygamers.com/news/2011-flash-gaming-summit-facebook-and-flash-are-steering-popcaps-future/
    (Article is broken now)

    It stated this... "Sick of trying to convince anti-virus companies to take their game loaders off blacklists, PopCap decided to return to Flash."

    True, the mobile browsers are weak. A lot of features don't run correctly. But I'm looking at the pieces here...

    1 - There are a lot of different browsers. The current version of the GameSalad plugin only runs in Mac Safari.
    2 - Apple is anti-flash. So if a big software maker like Adobe is adding support for HTML 5, that's highlights an industry shift.
    3 - Desktops are not as popular anymore. They're being replaced by laptops and cell phones.
    4 - Mobile devices will get better.

    If GameSalad is aiming to be the next Kongregate (aren't those Flash games?) or Unity 3D, then this is a big decision for GameSalad. I don't use the GameSalad plugin even though I have a Mac with Safari.

    This website does seem to be setup as a place to play, not just a place to build, so this is probably an important matter for the GameSalad team. I think it's a bad idea to go with plugins. The only way I think plugins make sense is to make GameSalad export to Flash. That's not a trivial task either.

    So, what if plugins were ditched entirely? If people have to download a plugin, why not download the whole game? Would you rather play a GameSalad game on Windows in a browser or as an application?
  • StusAppsStusApps Member, PRO Posts: 1,352
    Well a flash based GS viewer app that loads the game through XML files would be more straightforward (did I just recommend flash!?). Scratch uses java for game playback by default, but they are moving to flash for now, no other options yet for universal browser support that is stable.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    StusApps said:
    Well a flash based GS viewer app that loads the game through XML files would be more straightforward (did I just recommend flash!?).

    That is a good idea.
    It's a great idea actually!

    Instead of building different plugins, GameSalad only needs to create a player. That player would read the content of a GameSalad project file... XML, sounds, images, and then import it into Flash.

    Maybe this could be a community project. Do you think GameSalad would let us build it? We'd probably have to reverse engineer the software a little, but I think they'd give us permission for something like this.
  • simo103simo103 Member, PRO Posts: 1,331
    personally I think the future of paid (or make money from) apps and projects is NOT to make web or HTML5 versions.

    WHY? well I think the internet has taught us about FREE, free content, free music, free images and video and Apple has helped put that genie back in the bottle for music, apps and maybe news content etc. I think the beauty of what Jobs has done is to say that there is a value to content .. price it fair and make it easy to get and people will pay.

    I know that to consumers that seems not good since free is better ... right? Well not always since overtime less quality content will be produced by free (since people dont make money) so you end up with free crap.

    I think Flash was blocked for a lot of reasons ... lack of touch focus, battery life etc but also because it meant that value was sucked out of the content.
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    simo103 said:
    personally I think the future of paid (or make money from) apps and projects is NOT to make web or HTML5 versions.

    WHY? well I think the internet has taught us about FREE, free content, free music, free images and video and Apple has helped put that genie back in the bottle for music, apps and maybe news content etc. I think the beauty of what Jobs has done is to say that there is a value to content .. price it fair and make it easy to get and people will pay.

    I know that to consumers that seems not good since free is better ... right? Well not always since overtime less quality content will be produced by free (since people dont make money) so you end up with free crap.

    I think Flash was blocked for a lot of reasons ... lack of touch focus, battery life etc but also because it meant that value was sucked out of the content.

    I don't think GS should make that choice. I think developers should. If you don't want to put your game on the web for free you don't have to. But some of us (me! me!) have been waiting for this for a LONG time! For example, I have a human body text book that ties into music (hence the name sciTunes) and video games. I am allowing teachers to stream the music for free and play the video games for free to bring them to my site. I am hoping that teachers will then buy books to use in their classrooms to tie the games music and science content together.
  • simo103simo103 Member, PRO Posts: 1,331
    scitunes said:
    I don't think GS should make that choice. I think developers should.

    Excellent point .. had not considered that ... my concern was if web based games worked on IOS devices as HTML5 might then why code an app and submit thru Apple? Would that destroy the golden goose?
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    simo103 said:
    personally I think the future of paid (or make money from) apps and projects is NOT to make web or HTML5 versions.

    I agree that there is a danger in reverting back to free/advertisement based web content, but Flash games are great for promotion. Additionally, casual gaming is very profitable. Some of the biggest games around are FarmVille and CityVille. They make their money with virtual currency.

    I think the Flash Player for GameSalad games could be a cool open source project. I'm not sure if the GameSalad team is cool with it. Also, I'm a bit busy with BOT right now. The point is this... reinventing the wheel might not be the best idea. If GameSalad made a Flash player, they'd only have to build the player... not a custom plugin for multiple browsers and multiple operating systems.
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