How much to make a game?

lilongyue

Hello,

I wrote an introduction thread earlier, and in a reply someone mentioned the things needed to make a game (art, music, and someone to "program" the game). Reading that person's comment made me curious how much would it cost to just be an "idea" man? I know the GS forums have artists, musicians and programmers around, and I heard they are all looking for work, so how much would it cost? I know the cost would depend on the kind of game, so for simplicity's sake let's say it's a game where you shoot balls into a moving hole. So, not a lot of complex animation, changing backgrounds, or hundreds of actor interactions. Are there some artists, musicians, and programmers willing to make some estimates?

I read another person's thoughts on this matter (being an idea man) on a different website, and he related this story: Dune author Frank Herbert was once approached by a friend who said, "If you take my idea and write the book, I'll split the money 50/50." Frank Herbert said no, and when asked why he refused, Mr. Herbert replied, "Because ideas are the easy part. Writing is what's hard." I understand this idea, and honestly want to be involved in the actual making of my own games, but I'm also curious how possible and expensive it would be to just provide ideas. I live in Asia, and I could probably get some of the work done here (like the art) for much cheaper than in West, for example. So, until I was able to make games myself, I wonder would it be cost effective and even profitable to just be an "idea man?"

Thanks in advance!

lilongyue

Oops, maybe I should have posted this in the "Jobs" sub-forum. Don't see a way to delete this post, so can't move it there myself.

quantumsheep

I've moved your thread to 'jobs'.

To answer your question:

I think it varies wildly depending on the complexity of the project and the experience of the user you hire.

I personally wouldn't do it for less than $1000 a week,. Because making games is hard, even if you're working on your *own* ideas, much less those of others.

When I was younger, I too wanted to be 'The ideas man' - a guy who sat in a room playing games all day, left to his own devices till someone poked their head in the door and said 'what colour hair should the hero have?'

I'd say 'blue', get back to my games, and that would be my work done for the day!

This role does not exist in reality!

GameSalad is a great enabler though. People who dreamt of making a game, or had ideas they thought would be great, are now in a position to make those games.

Now that pretty much anyone can make a game, it's the *ideas* behind them that will distinguish the good games from the rest. Not your ability to code.

I'd invest your time watching GS videos, playing with GS itself to get to grips with it, and start off small and work your way up.

It's incredibly rewarding and fun to see your ideas come to life. Make it happen

The Frank Herbert quote is brilliant btw

Hope that helps,

QS

lilongyue

I look forward to making my own games, but from a business perspective, I was wondering how cost effective it would be to hire others if you make what ends up being a popular game. Is the $1,000 a week only for programming? Anyone else care to make an estimate?

kapser

Unfortunately the idea guy is pretty rare in independent developpement, and getting a spot in mainstream companies isn't easy. I've been the idea guy for a huge project and it's a lot of fun, but if you have to pay them you'll probably go broke.

As he said, it really depens on the game, but 1000$ a month is probably for programming. If you find someone that can do both coding and graphics, it will probably be the same price, but he will have to split time spent on both things, so game will take more weeks to make...

Personally, I would do coding and art for 500$ a week any time, even if I have to spend 60 hours a week, but even at that rate it doesn't mean I can complete the game in 2 weeks.

If you hire 3 people to make your game, believe me unless you are lucky on the sales you will probably not end up in profits. The best bet is probably to start learning GS, there is no way to estimate this if we have no idea how big the game is.

Hachiko

It usually takes me 2-3 weeks to complete a project, but it obviously depends on the work load.
My rates are for hours, so it depends on the time too, but it can be anything from 15€ (one hour) to even 800€ or more for a kinda big project. I don't see the point in "not working for at least that much". As long as I'm paid my hours, I'm ok with it d:
If your game is simple enough, learning gamesalad would probably be the best route (:
If you want to discuss further the matter (i.e., getting a more accurate rate for what you need), mail me at hachisoft@hotmail.it (:
Cheers!

andrewm2211

$500 for a 60 hour work week!?
I think $1000/week is generous.

I don't know where you live, but in Los Angeles that is too low! Gamesalad programming is a unique skill, and if you're good don't sell yourself short!

Gamesalad programmers may become a fulltime job in a few years, who knows. Dont undercut your future colleagues!

macewan

$500 a week is good money in Washington, NC. Sad I know.

andrewm2211 said:
$500 for a 60 hour work week!?
I think $1000/week is generous.

I don't know where you live, but in Los Angeles that is too low! Gamesalad programming is a unique skill, and if you're good don't sell yourself short!

Gamesalad programmers may become a fulltime job in a few years, who knows. Dont undercut your future colleagues!

JohnPapiomitis

macewan said:
$500 a week is good money in Washington, NC. Sad I know.

not for a programmer! 500 is good money a week anywhere you are if your working at mcdonalds or doing manual labor. But Not for sitting at a computer 18 hours a day 7 days a week pulling your hair out!

lilongyue

Thanks for all of the responses! It's very interesting to get an idea of what it would cost to "produce" a game. I was never seriously considering trying to be an idea man, just curious since if such a thing would ever be possible, it would only be in indie game development.

To play a bit of the devil's advocate, even if I had the money, I'd be hard pressed to fork out a lot of it for GS programming, since the game in question will only sell for about $1 USD (and not $50 USD like a PS3 game). Real game programmer's annual salary is high, but they don't get overtime. A quick Google search reveals that they are worked like dogs, and there is a high turn over rate. Most people doing game development in large companies live in cities with a high cost of living, but you could do GS development from anywhere. Many game programmers burn out and take lower paying jobs outside the game industry to spend more time at home, among other things. So, that would also have to be factored into the salary.  Honestly, working at home on a GS game sounds like a stroll in the park compared to real game development, where 80-hour work weeks are the norm. Oh yeah, did I mention there are millions of people dreaming of doing this kind of work? A large, and very eager work force affects salaries, too. 

In light of all of this, I think $1,000 USD is quite good money.  That's $48,000 a year (quite possibly tax free) if you were doing it full time.

kapser

500$ a week is more than I did as a game tester for a mainstream company XD It was just an example, but I don't have the programming skills to ask anything more XD I would work hard, but I know some people around here could do a better job.

I wasn't offering my help, just saying I would do it anytime, maybe even for cheaper

Most artist/programmers around here ask for around 20 bucks an hours, but I'm probably not as efficient. Where I live, this is what professionnal C++ programmers/artists get paid by multi-millionaire companies, so I wouldn't dare ask this price for my GS skill set.

andrewm2211

In a high cost of living area, 48,000 is not a comfortable wage, you can get by, but life won't be that easy.

And no it would not be tax free.

So you'd prob take home about 35k.

Those guys getting 20/hr, plus health ins, plus pension. All of which you'd have to pay for on your own if you were working from home. Once you have a wife in the picture that's a $1,000/month expense.

So that leaves 23k a year, to pay rent, car, car insurance, food, bills, and save...

I'm from a rural area in the Midwest, and in a lot of 'normal' cost of living towns that's doable.
There's nothing wrong with making 48k a year, you can get by. But it's not that comfortable either.

Why not think about how you can make $300,000 a year? Lot's of people do, and they aren't all genius' either. Maybe you won't get there, but why not aim high?

CaramelTigerClan

Would you be willing to pay $1 for a fully functional game?

quantumsheep

Hachiko said:
I don't see the point in "not working for at least that much". As long as I'm paid my hours, I'm ok with it d:

If that was aimed at me, I think you're probably misunderstanding me!

I want to make my own games. That's my priority.

Creating a whole game for someone else could take weeks away from that.

Which is why I wouldn't do it for less than the price I mentioned. Not because I'm greedy - but because I'd much rather be getting on with my own games!

It's like a deterrent

QS

Hachiko

Oh no QS, it wasn't directed at you d: It's just that I saw lot of dev (on toucharcade too), saying stuff like "I'm not going to do anything for less then 2k$". I just don't see the point in that, work is work d: If you want to work, I don't think the final price really matter, as long as you're paid your hours.
I'm actually enjoying getting to work on others. I get to do lots of different experiences, and money isn't bad either. But I totally understand you (: I'm in for the money (it's a necessity, actually), so making my own games unfortunately must come last. But if I was in the position to make my own without having to care so much about money, I would've probably do the same (; Hopefully I'll find the time to work on mine this summer (:

quantumsheep

Hey, no worries!

I can see you're a 'work for hire' guy of course and our two situations are very different.

No offence I hope!

QS

Hachiko

Not at all (;