2d sprite makeover legal or illegal?

oragwaroragwar Member Posts: 20
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
Can I alter a 2D sprite from another game and use it? This question comes from a hiphop thought process and procedure known as SAMPLING; when you take a small piece of a created work (sampled audio), and turn that small piece into a whole new creative work and it's legal. CAN YOU DO THE SAME WITH SPRITES? For example, lets say I take an egg from a nintendo yoshi game and creatively alter it into a whole new piece of created artwork. Would that be legal? Are game developers allowed to do this?

Comments

  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasMember, Sous Chef Posts: 2,870
    No, legally you cannot use the image from another game, even if you alter it.

    And sampling has been around since the early days of recording, Hiphop just abuses it. :)
  • oragwaroragwar Member Posts: 20
    You call sampling abuse but I call it culture, creativity, and resourceful thinking from a deprived inner-city community. Early hip hop communities were really run-down and they did what they could to make music. It's all music at the end of the day anyway. How you make it shouldn't matter it should be something people can enjoy; right?
  • skotleachskotleach Member Posts: 48
    It may be considered a derivative work

    "...it must display some originality of its own. It cannot be a rote, uncreative variation on the earlier, underlying work. The latter work must contain sufficient new expression, over and above that embodied in the earlier work for the latter work to satisfy copyright law’s requirement of originality."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
  • ktfrightktfright Member Posts: 964
    oragwar said:
    You call sampling abuse but I call it culture, creativity, and resourceful thinking from a deprived inner-city community. Early hip hop communities were really run-down and they did what they could to make music. It's all music at the end of the day anyway. How you make it shouldn't matter it should be something people can enjoy; right?

    this.

    When I'm making music, I generally like sampling because I feel like I'm reinventing the song and giving it another twist for others to hear.
  • eXtraTurnGameseXtraTurnGames Member Posts: 70
    I'm pretty sure sampling is not legal in every jurisdiction (IP law major here). That said, the sampling argument has some flaws since if we consider the work to be the sprite, and you are taking the entire sprite, that's using more of the work than sampling does.

    The real question might be whether anyone can tell that you copied the sprite. If you are remaking an egg from a Mario game, the more you change it the safer you are. If you changed the shell texture and the outline a bit, no one would be able to tell unless you did that with every sprite in your game. People only care about sampling when the sampler has some money to take, after all...
  • oragwaroragwar Member Posts: 20
    Extraturn
    ExtraTurnGames said:
    I'm pretty sure sampling is not legal in every jurisdiction (IP law major here). That said, the sampling argument has some flaws since if we consider the work to be the sprite, and you are taking the entire sprite, that's using more of the work than sampling does.

    The real question might be whether anyone can tell that you copied the sprite. If you are remaking an egg from a Mario game, the more you change it the safer you are. If you changed the shell texture and the outline a bit, no one would be able to tell unless you did that with every sprite in your game. People only care about sampling when the sampler has some money to take, after all...

    The question i need answered is centered around what EXTRATURNGAMES said. With a song it's a complete body of work so for me to take Michael Jackson's "Thriller", from start to finish and say it's my original song would be against the copyright law. But if i took a snippet of thriller and turned it into a "derivative work" like SKOTLEACH said it would be fine. Does this same concept work with video games. I know if I took MARIO64, as a whole complete body of work, and slapped another title on it I would be breaking the law but if I took a snippet and or a small aspect of the game and turned it into a "derivative work" would this be wrong? I've seen people re-create mario (as a 2D sprite) a million and one times in their own individual way.
  • ultimaultima Member, PRO Posts: 1,207
    the truth is, if you modify 70% of it... it becomes yours.but after modifying 70% of it, it's almost unrecognizable as the original... why not spend 30% of the extra time to make your own art?
  • zombieaddictzombieaddict Member Posts: 213
    If the re-created mario character was still recognizable as mario, then it would be good grounds for Nintendo to potentially file a lawsuit against the artist in question. In saying that, this would probably only happen if you actually intended on making money off it. It would be hard to copyright something like a yoshi egg or whatever. I mean, it just looks like an egg with a few circles, but still you shouldn't straight copy and paste it even if you do intend on changing it. You could try asking the original artist for permission. or... just take some artistic inspiration from whatever gfx you like and come up with your own idea for it.
  • TheHooglerTheHoogler Member Posts: 102
    I suppose the question is, what is your intent? Musicians who sample take a bit of audio that inspires them, and add their own original flavor to it. The key here is, inspiration to further art.

    If for some reason you think you have a unique approach to recreating a Yoshi egg, thus calling attention to the importance of the original art and the new art, then by all means, "sample" away.

    However, if you're just being lazy because you don't want to draw an egg shape, then you really aren't like any of the hip hop artists, are you?
  • eXtraTurnGameseXtraTurnGames Member Posts: 70
    oragwar said:But if i took a snippet of thriller and turned it into a "derivative work" like SKOTLEACH said it would be fine. Does this same concept work with video games. I know if I took MARIO64, as a whole complete body of work, and slapped another title on it I would be breaking the law but if I took a snippet and or a small aspect of the game and turned it into a "derivative work" would this be wrong? I've seen people re-create mario (as a 2D sprite) a million and one times in their own individual way.
    I don't think there has been a case exactly on what you're asking. So your question would have to be considered through analogy...

    So, people can make Mario's likeness, but they aren't charging money for it and they aren't taking a market away from Nintendo when they do it. That's a fair use.

    If they made a game with Mario in it and sold it, that would be infringement of course.

    Basically, to use your egg example... the idea of an egg done as a sprite is not protectable, but their original drawing of an egg is protectable. Your question is actually a lot more complicated than it appears due to a jurisdiction split and other legal issues, for instance if you redraw the sprite using their artwork as a base does that count as incorporating their artwork? Like I said, there hasn't been a case on that concerning digital things to my knowledge, but jurisdictions differ on if tracing over a physical work can result in copyright infringement or not.

    So basically, to be safe, just make sure it isn't recognizable as Yoshi's egg and you are probably going to be OK.

    P.S. You are not my client or prospective client and this should not be considered professional advice, just something written for educational purposes.
  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasMember, Sous Chef Posts: 2,870
    You can't copyright an idea, so the idea around Mario can be used to your hearts content. But the graphics have to be original. You could re-create the gameplay from Mario, and as long as you didn't use any of the names, or any of the art, you'd be okay.

    As far as sampling…I've been a professional musician for over 20 years, Ive used sampling before on collaborative jams, and one of the biggest debates on sampling was between Vanilla Ice and David Bowie. Ice simply added a extra note in the bass line and got away with it. Won in court.

    I was just being a smart ass and throwing my personal opinion of sampling, which I don't consider people that do sampling exclusively, as musicians. They are D.J.'s.

    Like I said, just my opinion.
  • oragwaroragwar Member Posts: 20
    ALL THESE RESPONSES ARE GREAT.....I was wondering about this because I saw the TSHIRTBOOTH dude in a youtbube video taking an image off of google and making his own personal image of a heart out of the image he found on the internet. He just altered the image in photoshop and it no longer looked like the original. I just thought the same would apply with any other image. I guess I got some research to do.
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    no no no thats different. Tshirt didnt take the image off google and start messing with it in photshop. He put it in illustrator and traced it and made his own completly from scratch. And thats because that heart wasnt a copryright character or anything. So your telling me you think you can take a image of mario, change his clothes color and you think you can use it? no way man. Alsoi your thought on sampling is off too. Just cause some hip hop guys let other people sample there work doesnt mean thats how the real legal issue with it is. If i took a skrillex track and resampled and mixed the whole thing then tried to put it on beatport or itunes you know what would happen? i would have a 2 million dollar lawsuit in the mail the next day. Even people when they sample useuallly and are supposed to get permission. I see sampled songs all the time that have been pulled for copryrights and the real artist dissing the songs saying they have nothing to do with it and they want it pulled.

    Just do your own art man, it will save you a ton of time, and will end up better for you anyway.
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