Open Letter...
gameon
Member Posts: 9
Don't know where to file this perhaps an open letter to Gamesald developers. Having been an in-house software developer for many years as well as using numerous software titles I would like to suggest the following:
How to use the software:
While there are numerous sources for tutorial, templates, tools etc. there is no concise way to learn gamesalad other than the hunt and peck approach. This is both time consuming and frustrating. I believe more developers would embrace gamesalad if there was a consistent path of education on how to use the software.
The Hello World paradigm only gets you so far and the cookbook shotgun approach leaves one with more questions than answers. Here is question that I have been unable to find an answer to that is at the heart of every GS program:
Attributes
"I can't find any really thorough explanation of attributes, their use, when to use, how to use and what type to use in a given situation? I see many examples of using attributes but no one ever explains why a particular attribute has been chosen."
That is just one of dozens of questions I have had while trying to use GS. Since there are no books other than an iPad app that really explains GS I am constantly frustrated. Why not some old fashion tutorials/lessons that have exercises attached that a new user can get experience with from a ground up approach. Here is a title GS 101-Behaviors The basics, GS 201Behaviors, implementation and use...Nearly every software program ever used has some type of structure way to learn the software. I see examples of how to spawn, how not to spawn.
Enough of the rant I think I have made my point. I hope someone is listening. GS has great potential, just wish it was easier to get up and running.
How to use the software:
While there are numerous sources for tutorial, templates, tools etc. there is no concise way to learn gamesalad other than the hunt and peck approach. This is both time consuming and frustrating. I believe more developers would embrace gamesalad if there was a consistent path of education on how to use the software.
The Hello World paradigm only gets you so far and the cookbook shotgun approach leaves one with more questions than answers. Here is question that I have been unable to find an answer to that is at the heart of every GS program:
Attributes
"I can't find any really thorough explanation of attributes, their use, when to use, how to use and what type to use in a given situation? I see many examples of using attributes but no one ever explains why a particular attribute has been chosen."
That is just one of dozens of questions I have had while trying to use GS. Since there are no books other than an iPad app that really explains GS I am constantly frustrated. Why not some old fashion tutorials/lessons that have exercises attached that a new user can get experience with from a ground up approach. Here is a title GS 101-Behaviors The basics, GS 201Behaviors, implementation and use...Nearly every software program ever used has some type of structure way to learn the software. I see examples of how to spawn, how not to spawn.
Enough of the rant I think I have made my point. I hope someone is listening. GS has great potential, just wish it was easier to get up and running.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/faqs
scroll down and you will see some pretty helpful links. this section has helped me in tough times
http://www.youtube.com/user/GameSaladCookbook
Thank you.
No disrespect on the cookbook video, however the attribute video in the cookbook merely states the obvious "a boolean is an on/off attribute" etc, etc. No real mention of a practical application on how/when to use any of the attributes in a given situation.
I referenced the phonics book in my post. I guess what I, as well as others, may or may not be looking for is learning track similar to what one would find in this example. http://www.learningcorona.com/
I do not nor do I care to learn Corona I just use this as an example as an outline of what could be of great benefit to new users who are not familiar with GS. By reducing the learning curve, I believe more people would be drawn to GS.
GS is easy to use, but like anything else requires a lot trial and error during the initial early learning phases. As a new user there is a ton of reference material, but it is scattered about. It's like looking at a connect the dots puzzle with the number 1 in place and not knowing really where to go next. As the developers of GS get closer to the 1.0 release of their product I would hope they would take to heart what I and others have said by users who want to use the product, but are frustrated at the lack of any organized learning/tutorial materials.
Templates are great but with no explanation why or how one arrives at a solution can be frustrating. 2+2 certainly does equal 4, but until one has an understanding of what 2 of anything is, 4 is just a quick answer to a problem that goes unsolved.
Thanks
Thanks for the link. I used the attributes function merely as an example of a larger issue. My Open Letter... is just a shout out to the GS developers as a suggestion of how to better empower their users, especially the new users. Let's face it anyone new to anything be it software, a new hobby etc. is going to do much better at achieving expertise if there is defined path of how to get there.
Trial and error while it has its merits also leads to frustration which leads to anger which leads to the dark side. Couldn't resist! Anyway, I hope I am making myself a little clearer. Just suggesting some of what I am going through as a new user. Not trying to throw anyone under the bus. Hundreds of developers contribute to what is becoming a viable format for game creation. I am just trying to make a suggestion to help smooth out the road to getting there.
Thanks,
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/tutorials:video_tutorials:create_from_scratch_1?rev=1262718085
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/tutorials:video_tutorials:create_from_scratch_2?rev=1262718153
In addition, (I know the new ones are coming) the forums have a wealth of information but it's mostly lost in the horrid software behind it. I was honestly shocked at how primitive this forum software was at the beginning, it makes searching for topics a real chore, and because of that, noob questions are asked over and over everyday.
What's this stuff gets honed, GS will be a serious threat to it's competitors.
~t
I'll conclude my comments here. I had feeling someone would come out of the wood work and interpret my suggestion as as you suggest "physically doing it for me". The thought all along was to bring together in a one concise area a means where one could go to lessen the learning curve and spend time making games and not trying a shotgun approach to Gamesalad.
For example one can go to Lynda.com and learn photoshop from rank beginner to expert using step by step methods of creating content complete with exercises and explanations on how and why a technique is being used. On the other hand I can spend time googling different photoshop blogs and websites looking for how to's and shortcuts for
Also I would love if someone answered why my hour hand does all of a sudden does not work in any of my created clocks when I did not change any of my codes. Thanks
I think you have a valid point.. when I ventured over to the dark side (corona) to try and learn it there were a couple of paths to choose from when learning it and its quite easy to build up from the early stages to intermediate etc etc.... (I eventually grew tired of coding... but it was an interesting look into the other world)
Stormys GameSalad Academy:
Maybe I'll try and add something to www.stormystudio.com in the future... a sort of GameSalad academy...where perhaps a final game is created by doing various stages each designed to learn a different area of gamesalad and app development as a whole....eventually letting the user build the final game...giving video step by step instructions and some reasoning on why a certain attribute is used etc...
In the mean time
That said, the information is out there for GameSalad you just have to get used to where to look:
• The GameSalad forum, pretty much every question ever has been asked, if you use the search function, and then scroll to the bottom and press search using Google you'll find what your after.
• There is the gamesalad wiki (as mentioned above) http://gamesalad.com/wiki
• The cookbook (not sure how well this works, I prefer the forum myself)
• www.GShelper.com (Tshirts website and videos are a brilliant resource and worth watching through...I wish the search function worked though...(sorry t-shirt if it does now))
• Photics Book, is a brilliant resource and certainly worth reading at least once, I still visit it from time to time...its just worth reading so you know what is and is not possible.
• Lastly you can search for projects with in the GameSalad software and look to see how they work.
As GS matures further I'm sure more 3rd parties will pick up the slack and make Better documentation. But from any other software I've delt with, this isn't as bad as I've seen. Let's let GS get a finished 1.0 version then look at the state of documentation.
It seems that many on this forum do well with a non-linear, 'hunt for it' approach to learning GameSalad, However, I'm one of those old-school learners who need to refer to a consistently laid-out textbook, or other written medium. (Videos and snippets of cookbook recipes are OK, but I like to refer to textual material to learn from.)
Here is how I would lay out a textbook. (Or perhaps a website with written and video materials.) Chapters 14 and 15 are a little more fleshed-out but all chapters would go into as much depth. Would anybody be interested in a book like this?
Introduction
Part 1. GameSalad Basics
----Chapter 1. Why You Want to Make Games In GameSalad
----Chapter 2. Getting Comfortable With the GameSalad IDE
--------Hello World!
----Chapter 3. A Big Picture Overview of How Things Work
--------Actor Oriented Development
--------Attributes – Everybody’s Got ‘Em
--------Behaviors – Everybody Wants ‘Em
Part 2. Learning How to Create Games in GameSalad
----Chapter 4. Altered States – An Adventure in Adventure Games
----Chapter 5. It’s Alive! Making Actors Interactive
----Chapter 6. It Won’t Be Long ‘Til You’ll Make Pong!
----Chapter 7. Wallbuster – A Breakout Game
----Chapter 8. Invaders – Look Out Below!
----Chapter 9. Jumpers – We’re Moving Up!
Part 3. Enhancing Your Games
----Chapter 10. Keyboard Input and Audio Output
----Chapter 11. Look At All The Pretty Particles!
----Chapter 12. Sensing Actor Positions and Controlling the Environment
----Chapter 13. Storing and Retrieving Data
Part 4. Phenomenally Phun Physics
----Chapter 14. Vectors, Acceleration, And Gravity, Oh My!
--------Working With Vectors
--------Calculating Vectors from dx and dy
--------Calculating Acceleration
--------Fun With Ballistics
----Chapter 15. Actor Motion
--------Newton (Sans the Figs)
----------------Newton’s First Law
----------------Newton’s Second Law
----------------Newton’s Third Law
--------Newton and Vectors
----------------Why Hot Air Balloons Fall
----------------Adding Hot Air
----------------Adding Wind, Rain, and Fire
----------------Don’t Tie Me Down!
--------Drivers Ed
----------------Checking Keys
----------------Turning the Car
----------------Making an Even Better Car
----------------Making an Even Better Driver!
--------Lost in Space!
----------------Captain! We’re Caught In A Gravity Well!
----------------We’re Pulling For You
----------------If One Planet Is Good . . .
----------------We’ve Got A Tractor Beam!
--------Landing On The Moon – Putting It All Together
Part 5. Advanced Topics
----Chapter 16. Do It Again – Loops
----Chapter 17. Do It More – Arrays
----Chapter 18. Do It With Legs – Joints
Part 6. But Wait! There’s More!
----Chapter 19. Finding and Fixing Errors
--------Debugging Tools
--------Logic Errors
----Chapter 20. Ten Math Concepts Every Game Developer Should Know
--------Random Number Generation
--------Calculating Distance
--------Projecting a Vector
--------Generating a Vector
--------Combining Vectors
--------Velocity (What it is and What it is not)
--------Acceleration (Rate of Change)
--------Newton’s Second Law (Force, Mass, and Acceleration)
--------Vehicle Motion (Speed, Power, Mass, and Drag)
--------Compensating for Gravity (The Law of Universal Gravitation)
Part 7. Appendices
Glossary
Index
Hey, the 'command bunker' is in Austin isn't it? The University of Texas at Austin has a great instructional technology program. I bet they have Masters and/or PHD students who would love to put together some decent training materials for you. (They could get credit or perhaps an internship out of it.) Here is their URL:
http://www.edb.utexas.edu/education/departments/ci/programs/it/
I'd suggest contacting them and letting some of their students (and maybe even a faculty member) work with your team in the 'command bunker'.
RThurman
BTW, the yellow! Is so nice to see, so often. SSS for mayor?
~t
Hey! Its great to see you being so responsive to the forums. Please keep it up!
p.s. Just in case its sounded like I have a vested interest in UT -- I'm not affiliated with them in any way.
A textbook already exists... http://photics.com/books/gamesalad-textbook
It's not super secret or months away either.
But yeah call me old fashioned, but between the cookbook, gshelper.com, photics book, and some effort, it think thats more then enough. There could be documentation on every single thing possible in gamesalad, your still gonna need effort and a ton of practice to get used to software. Take unity for example, theres tons and tons of materials and even tons of premade scripts for you to use. But that doesnt mean that someoen with no knowldege of the program can go in and just start plugging in pre made scripts and have a game. i Documentation and tutorials are never enough to learn the ins and outs of a sdk, it always takes effort and practice
but hey what do i know
Not saying that more documentation is a bad thing, thats ALWAYS good, but yeah what i said above haha