The kiip website does seem to be rather vague, and doesnt show any actual details other than the promo video, that just tells us people like winning real prizes.
From the fact that most of the listed advertisers/prize vendors are US based companies, it does bring up the question of how it will work internationally....
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Chunkypixels said: From the fact that most of the listed advertisers/prize vendors are US based companies, it does bring up the question of how it will work internationally....
well the video does mention a possible cruise. So.. maybe you have to win the Cruise to come to the US and use your coupons.
From watching the Kiip Welcome video... and seeing how it works in-app I think its going to be a double edged sword. Some people will be ok with it in games, others will hate it... It does look quite intrusive.
I can see many GS devs pumping their apps full of Kiip triggers... to the point of where theres not much game, but every opportunity to pop up yet another Kiip banner/promo.
Time will tell.... but Im going to predict that I dont think its going to help improve GameSalads reputation for "crap apps".
I'm reading the Kiip service agreement -- which can be found by playing a Kiip enabled game (I'm currently playing Mega Jump).
Under 'Article 2. How Kiip Work - NO PURCHASE NECESSARY to win rewards' it mentions "Every prize offered is available on at least one game that offers a method of entry that allows NON-PAYING players an equal opportunity to win the prizes. Therefore, no purchase is necessary to win.."
If I'm reading this correctly, you are only allowed to use Kiip on games that are free of charge. This does not negate you from having IAP in your games, but anything beyond that IAP is not allowed to unlock a Kiip reward.
I'll admit, this isn't something I see myself using, but it still seems like a great idea for a service. Kudos for including it as an option for GS users.
With that, I hope other monetization options are still on the table (ie. admob, at least for Android).
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Chunkypixels said: From watching the Kiip Welcome video... and seeing how it works in-app I think its going to be a double edged sword. Some people will be ok with it in games, others will hate it... It does look quite intrusive.
I can see many GS devs pumping their apps full of Kiip triggers... to the point of where theres not much game, but every opportunity to pop up yet another Kiip banner/promo.
Time will tell.... but Im going to predict that I dont think its going to help improve GameSalads reputation for "crap apps".
If I understad it correctly Kiip actually has a way of throttling this type of behavior to where it is not in the developers interest to do this. I believe the way it works is you get x amount of points to offer rewards with to each user.
For example your theory of the Crap App developer blasting 100 of these achievement rewards throughout the game means they get 1 point per reward. 1 point rewards are not going to pay as much as a 20 point reward so the user accepting and thus earning the dev some revenue is likely a minuscule amount. that piled on the fact that users will be sick of the 1 point rewards by the time they hit reward number 5 means they are only shooting themselves in the foot by using this practice. So the higher you value the achievement the more it makes you. so in turn you are likely to make more money from 2-5 kiip achievements as compared to 100.
None of that is of course the exact way it works. Thats just how I understand it from back when gamesalad first started messing with it, and the research I did after that.
Some interesting stuff I'd like to share with you;
"Brands will pay up when a user signs up for a reward, from 25 cents to $3 per cost per engagement."
"The rewards themselves are actually targeted algorithmically based on the game demographics, for example if no girls play a game there will be no offers for lipstick. If someone ends up with something they don’t want they can always gift it."
"Kiip Rewards Network will be rolling out rewards in over 15 games, reaching 12 million monthly active users"
"between September and October, the average number of achievements unlocked per player increased 30 percent from nine to 12."
"We're looking to see what we can do for the Unitys and Coronas of the mobile development world as well as for GameSalad."
I think they are underestimating the true "horde" of the gamesalad...
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
cbt said: "Wong estimates 50 games by the end of the year"
I think they are underestimating the true "horde" of the gamesalad...
Or maybe they play the game and approve it for their rewards programs? that would be a definite double edge sword. Extremely great Value for those who are approved but but bad for GameSalad who will be selling "un-garanteed Access"
@SSS & Yodapollo I think its about time we get a definite This is how things are planned to work.
There have been a lot of great questions on the Kiip implementation and how it will work. We're working on a Q&A with Kiip now, and will post it as soon as possible.
We're feeling very good about this partnership and the monetization additions that are coming to GameSalad and want you too feel confident about what you can do with us and our partners.
"Kiip’s brand advertisers include Kodak, Best Buy (pictured) Popchips, 1-800Flowers.com, Vitamin Water and dozens of others. The eCPMs (effective cost per thousand impressions) is $5 to $6, much higher than other kinds of ads, Wong said."
Question for SSS, TSB, & Ter, Since this is a behavior and would it be allowable to use Kiip as an ingame purchase system?
For example: Click button X to get Kiip Reward, if user enters e-mail and accepts reward then unlock a new level in the game If they don't accept the reward or fill in there email then no new level Store what levels are unlocked in normal save attribute behavior. End example.
In effect the user watches an add to get something in game like a level, 'coins', 'gold', or a new weapon.
woot.... something nice since i just gotten Pro subscription.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
@bradherman Check out the Kiip Questions and answers sticky. Mchewie said things like that will result in kiip disabling your app from receiving rewards. They are intended to be just that Rewards for Achievments.
Awesome hope my apps that I will be publishing soon gain enough downloads so I can buy the full version and a car!!! Fingers crossed You guys are doing great!!!
@gamesalad you have a nice forum and all but you just slack off when it comes to the real thing iap was set for mid summer now almost 6 months later iap is still something set for far future the closest you got was when it came but it didnt do anything but crash gamesalad and now another thing the least you guys should do is make goals that you can achieve and also stop giving us stuff we dont need and finish the essentials like joints and in game stuff
http://gigaom.com/2011/12/23/kiip-lets-brands-create-flash-contests-inside-apps/ it's looking very interesting, but from the looks of it you'll need some seriously addictive game for the kiip system to work. and extensive gameplay because it is after all reward based.. and it can't exist without games that keeps player on it for a long time... so it's time to get busy.
An update regarding the upcoming Kiip partnership:
In late November, we were excited to announce a partnership with Kiip to bring their achievement-based reward system to the GameSalad community. Since the announcement, we have worked closely with Kiip on implementation. While we are nearing completion, we have elected to hold off on releasing Kiip so that we can be confident that it will meet your expectations as to quality and functionality.
Kiip continues to go through final testing and we look forward to bringing this new feature to Professional GameSalad members in early 2012. We will provide more updates closer to release.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
@MjMDesign I think its important to remember that While you don't find kiip useful or I don't thing IAP should come before much more important things, IMO, like GameCenter Achievements and Joints for example. GameSalad has to balance everyones wants and needs. Some users want monetization some users want better features to make games etc… Kiip is something that worked out so it happened now. You can say it should not have, I can say it should not have. But in the end they have taken in tons of feedback about what everyone wants and are left to the nightmare of actually deciding what to hand out next, Based on what they believe their users want combined with their own plan for GameSalad. I cant imagine personally how much that must suck to be in charge of working out the best mesh of both things.
im not saying kiip is a bad thing in fact it is a great thing, I might not have been clear enough but gamesalad has missed almost every single release date for new features and I think a great way for them to not miss anything is to have an objective c based coding block where users can code in all of these things. Stencyl has the coding block and it is at a much more reasonable price so if gamesalad wants to charge around 3.35 times as much for a less featured product I think they are crazy. sorry gamesalad
Do you guys think that it will atleast be out in Jan? (Preferably early Jan.) I would like to release the free and paid versions of my game all at the same time.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Fallacy I can tell you sous chefs do not have any betas on kiip yet so early jan is most likely a no. That's just my guess though. You guys know as much as I do on this feature.
Comments
I cannot find any information on the Kiip website. To be clear I UNDERSTAND of REWARDS work.
How does a developer make money? Do we get cpc revenue when someone clicks on a reward? Or cpm when the reward is shown?
Is Kiip something we can use in paid games?
I can see how Kiip woud increase downloads of free games, and benefits the player. But if used in a free game how do I ( the developer) earn revenue?
The kiip website does seem to be rather vague, and doesnt show any actual details other than the promo video, that just tells us people like winning real prizes.
From the fact that most of the listed advertisers/prize vendors are US based companies, it does bring up the question of how it will work internationally....
I can see many GS devs pumping their apps full of Kiip triggers... to the point of where theres not much game, but every opportunity to pop up yet another Kiip banner/promo.
Time will tell.... but Im going to predict that I dont think its going to help improve GameSalads reputation for "crap apps".
Under 'Article 2. How Kiip Work - NO PURCHASE NECESSARY to win rewards' it mentions "Every prize offered is available on at least one game that offers a method of entry that allows NON-PAYING players an equal opportunity to win the prizes. Therefore, no purchase is necessary to win.."
If I'm reading this correctly, you are only allowed to use Kiip on games that are free of charge. This does not negate you from having IAP in your games, but anything beyond that IAP is not allowed to unlock a Kiip reward.
I'll admit, this isn't something I see myself using, but it still seems like a great idea for a service. Kudos for including it as an option for GS users.
With that, I hope other monetization options are still on the table (ie. admob, at least for Android).
For example your theory of the Crap App developer blasting 100 of these achievement rewards throughout the game means they get 1 point per reward. 1 point rewards are not going to pay as much as a 20 point reward so the user accepting and thus earning the dev some revenue is likely a minuscule amount. that piled on the fact that users will be sick of the 1 point rewards by the time they hit reward number 5 means they are only shooting themselves in the foot by using this practice. So the higher you value the achievement the more it makes you. so in turn you are likely to make more money from 2-5 kiip achievements as compared to 100.
None of that is of course the exact way it works. Thats just how I understand it from back when gamesalad first started messing with it, and the research I did after that.
I could of course be totally wrong.
"Brands will pay up when a user signs up for a reward, from 25 cents to $3 per cost per engagement."
"The rewards themselves are actually targeted algorithmically based on the game demographics, for example if no girls play a game there will be no offers for lipstick. If someone ends up with something they don’t want they can always gift it."
"Kiip Rewards Network will be rolling out rewards in over 15 games, reaching 12 million monthly active users"
"between September and October, the average number of achievements unlocked per player increased 30 percent from nine to 12."
"We're looking to see what we can do for the Unitys and Coronas of the mobile development world as well as for GameSalad."
And an interesting fact;
Kiip founder Brian Wong is 19 years old. Wow...
I think they are underestimating the true "horde" of the gamesalad...
@SSS & Yodapollo I think its about time we get a definite This is how things are planned to work.
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/225376/make-your-own-games-and-make-money-with-them-with-kiip-and-gamesalad/
/\
see
We're feeling very good about this partnership and the monetization additions that are coming to GameSalad and want you too feel confident about what you can do with us and our partners.
This seems like a good possibility for my Android apps. I think it would work well with BOT.
This could be a good reason to renew my GameSalad subscription. HA!
"Kiip’s brand advertisers include Kodak, Best Buy (pictured) Popchips, 1-800Flowers.com, Vitamin Water and dozens of others. The eCPMs (effective cost per thousand impressions) is $5 to $6, much higher than other kinds of ads, Wong said."
http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/28/kiip-and-gamesalad-integrate-ad-based-rewards-directly-into-game-development-platform/
So looks like there could potentially be some good revenue. I would still like more info but Kiip is starting to look really good!
Since this is a behavior and would it be allowable to use Kiip as an ingame purchase system?
For example:
Click button X to get Kiip Reward,
if user enters e-mail and accepts reward then unlock a new level in the game
If they don't accept the reward or fill in there email then no new level
Store what levels are unlocked in normal save attribute behavior.
End example.
In effect the user watches an add to get something in game like a level, 'coins', 'gold', or a new weapon.
Still waiting to publish some android games :P
it's looking very interesting, but from the looks of it you'll need some seriously addictive game for the kiip system to work. and extensive gameplay because it is after all reward based.. and it can't exist without games that keeps player on it for a long time... so it's time to get busy.
In late November, we were excited to announce a partnership with Kiip to bring their achievement-based reward system to the GameSalad community. Since the announcement, we have worked closely with Kiip on implementation. While we are nearing completion, we have elected to hold off on releasing Kiip so that we can be confident that it will meet your expectations as to quality and functionality.
Kiip continues to go through final testing and we look forward to bringing this new feature to Professional GameSalad members in early 2012. We will provide more updates closer to release.
Stencyl has the coding block and it is at a much more reasonable price so if gamesalad wants to charge around 3.35 times as much for a less featured product I think they are crazy.
sorry gamesalad