Does GameSalad see Stencyl as significant competition? Any roadmap modifications?
part12studios
Member Posts: 620
So I've been poking around with Stencyl and while I'm not sold on it, some of its capabilities are very intruiging and do make me want to investigate further. I realize I'm not every GS user and so my needs / interests may simply be broader than GS is ever planning to be, but here are the features that I find interesting about it and wonder if GS has any plans match these features..
- flash/html5 games that can be built and not castrated by a fixed canvas size and everything else wrong with the way GS restricts HTML5 publishing
- access to source code for modifications / expansion. Not that every dev needs this power, but for example in my situation.. i have a great programmer i could team up with.. or if i was a programmer, wouldn't it be nice...
- ability to make / get web calls. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to have GS create front ends for not just iOS/android, but for social network/web games.. multiplayer games.. etc. I may not be a programmer, but i know programmers and if i could handle the front end and allow them to deal with the backend, i've greatly increased the possibilities for making games with GS! Its not that GS even needs to be able to make the server stuff.. just the ability for it to handle them would open up so many doors. Even enriching existing GS games.
because if they do, GS is IMHO so far, still a much better product in terms of less time figuring out crap and more time making games. I'm thrilled about the upcoming January release with new features as stated in the GS president. I just really love GS and would love to know that in time GS might address these needs I have personally.. and hope enough other people could see the value in making these things possible sooner..
thanks!
Caleb
- flash/html5 games that can be built and not castrated by a fixed canvas size and everything else wrong with the way GS restricts HTML5 publishing
- access to source code for modifications / expansion. Not that every dev needs this power, but for example in my situation.. i have a great programmer i could team up with.. or if i was a programmer, wouldn't it be nice...
- ability to make / get web calls. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to have GS create front ends for not just iOS/android, but for social network/web games.. multiplayer games.. etc. I may not be a programmer, but i know programmers and if i could handle the front end and allow them to deal with the backend, i've greatly increased the possibilities for making games with GS! Its not that GS even needs to be able to make the server stuff.. just the ability for it to handle them would open up so many doors. Even enriching existing GS games.
because if they do, GS is IMHO so far, still a much better product in terms of less time figuring out crap and more time making games. I'm thrilled about the upcoming January release with new features as stated in the GS president. I just really love GS and would love to know that in time GS might address these needs I have personally.. and hope enough other people could see the value in making these things possible sooner..
thanks!
Caleb
Comments
There is one thing i really like about Stencyl, you can use Obj-c as well, but i don't think GS will do that cause then, Pro membership is worthless.
And, what happened to the roadmap? i can't find it!
There may be reasons why Stencyl is more complicated and less intuitive. After all it does have more complex opterations available to it. the open source is pretty awesome.. but reflecting on the recent letter from the GS CEO.. they are on the cusp pf being 100% LUA free meaning a much faster engine from start to finish.. perhaps once this is in place.. source / backend options can open up effectively.
My hope is not to see GS require more complicated steps.. its to see the existing (brilliant) rule system simply allow more things like web calls. i had another thread on heere about the severe need to make the html5 feature worth even mentioning.. it's so misleading for them to say html5 publishing with all the rules and restrictions they put on a game.
I have plenty to keep me busy with GS this year, but i would just love to know GS will stay ahead of my needs.
darned if I would base my creative works on where a CEO has his finger!
mayhap should look at MIT's Scratch
(which Stencyl seems to have done and knows well even getting blocks for commands in the correct colors!)
which Google's App Inventor for Android used and acknowledged …
(App-Inventor has been assigned to MIT… newVersion in beta … publicVersion will release the 1st quarter of 2012.)
that said, you use what gets the job done for you …
to me GS had a lot of what I was looking for: absolute/immediate visual display/control of the placement of the elements of a game!
alas, Stencyl relies on Flash … while even Adobe admits that Flash is on the way out … and is busy, busy getting Edge ready for Web gaming.
Edge is looking good! as Adobe has lots of money to pour into it.
MH
As expressed GS's communications ability has improved, but having spent time in professional broadcasting, I see that they need a more experienced communications director who has extensive experience. The information that comes out is often fragmented and disorganized. Information needs to be comprehensive and assembled in a streamlined fashion. For example, the forum is constantly bombarded with what Xcode to use. Each version release should have a recommended system requirements required to use GS. This should include ram, osx version, iOS version, devices and Xcode version. Every software company provides this information. How is something as fundamental as this missed? It seems to me GS doesn't cross their T's and dot their I's. This is one of the main fundamentals of Steve Job's companies.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
The iOS portion of Stencyl does not rely on Flash.
Nothing will ever stand up to the GS community as we have such a strong community, But however iStencyl Only offers publishing if you pay: (PRICING REMOVED), Gs offers it for free so GS will always hold the market share, Now stencil does have some nice touches that GS could do with For example; OBJ C input (If the creator/SDK doesn't have the required behavior you can simply make one up in obj C..... This would be a Key aspect that GS should look at, Because the audience that would be appreciative of this are programmers that just want a fast & visual way to get there games done, With a lot of features!,
GS could also do with a lot more features which they are currently working on:
But a few of Features that i highly suggest are imenent are:
I know that are apps are now going to be translated into native code instead of Lua but even so, The GS loading wheel is a real turn off, No1 Its ugly No2 Its annoying No3 It doesn't always match the style of your game, It would be cool if we could design our own loading wheel, Like basically we start off with that loading wheel but we can add our own loading wheels in Like these In FIG 1.0 (At the bottom of this post) We could also maybe try a loading bar!
Custom Code input
I know the majority of GS users don't know how to code, including myself (The farthest I've got is "A hello world" App.) But however it would mean that the GS team wouldn't have to work on more behaviors it would mean that those conscious of Objective C could tell and post a thread on some behaviors that you can input with OBJ C. See an example below in FIG 1.1
Integration with Core device systems
Integration of our apps allowing us to access simple things first like: Vibration, Notifications.... Some people have been asking for camera integration but at the moment GameSalad is PRIMARILY for games so Notifications & vibration would be great!
Custom Collision Shapes
Custom collision shapes would be a great new feature that would help to compete with iStencyl
Fig 1.0=
Fig 1.2=
I would really appreciate if, Some people from the community & From The GameSalad Company read my Post and took it to mind!
---------------
Posted by LeonardDeveloper, contact me on thermoapps@thermo-apps.com
Be sure to visit my WEBSITE
Have a look at my GS Tutorials
----------------------------------------------------
Yours Sincerely,
Jack Leonard
In My opinion:
Nothing will ever stand up to the GS community as we have such a strong community, But however iStencyl Only offers publishing if you pay $350
You should read carefully, iStencyl PRO cost $149 and does more than you (and GameSalad) can ever dream of
In my opinion iStencyl is the software for the real devs!
The only difference is the price, GS looks and is way easier to use, the capabilities are pretty much the same!,
In my opinion stencil is not for real devs, Its just a copy of GS
The iOS publishing doesn't force a splash on you.
(I may be wrong, but that's how I read it)
Also (before anyone gets involved)
you might want to edit your posts to remove info about pricing....this is not the place to discuiss cometitor's pricing models.
GameSalad is what it is... a fast and easy way to make games. I consider StencylWorks a bit more complicated to use, but it's more powerful. GameSalad is not setup to export to Xcode or add my own code. With iStencyl I can. Do most of the developers here want to mess with Xcode? I don't think so. I think most of the developers here don't want to mess with coding.
My GameSalad subscription expires this month. Because of iStencyl, I have no plans to renew at this time. When you compare pricing, it's a no-brainer. Sure, GameSalad has Android publishing and HTML5 publishing, but both of those features are not robust enough for professional use — not for me anyway. So, what I see is a race. GameSalad had a significant head start, and they pretty much wasted a year and a half. Yet, I do see an interesting switch... GameSalad is dropping Lua. That could bring GameSalad up to a more professional level. It could also explain why development has seemed slow and buggy lately.
Why I might recommend GameSalad...
• Easy
• Free to publish iOS games (with splash screen)
• Familiarity - GameSalad had a head start. It's hard to adjust after ~2 years of using the same software.
• Particle behavior (It's a lot harder to make particles with StencylWorks)
Why I prefer iStencyl...
• Freedom... I don't feel like Jon and the gang are trying to own my game.
• I can see the code and add my own custom code
• More options (Example: Game Center Achievements & Universal Binaries)
• Less expensive
• Flash! (It's not dead yet and full screen web games rock!)
• Can communicate with a web server
• Software runs on Windows
• Much better community software (This forum really is a step backwards)
So clearly, I prefer StencylWorks. Yet, I'm watching GameSalad. A carpenter doesn't just build a house with a hammer. Certain tools are better suited for other tasks. If GameSalad turns out to be the better HTML5 software, while iStencyl is better for iOS apps, then I might maintain two subscriptions.
Maybe competition might be the kick that GameSalad needs to get moving.
Also, the idea of a custom loading wheel is cool but I think the better question is: why is one needed at all? Stencyl does the loading upfront and has a customizable loading bar that you can put ontop of your custom splash screen. After that, the levels and scene switching are pretty much instant. Shouldn't GS be like that as well? Fortunately it seems like an engine overhaul is in the works so hopefully it does go that way. I've always said that GS is the best tool that is not living up to its potential.
Why I prefer iStencyl...
You forgot to say about the In-App Purchases which are so easy to use, they can be setup in 2 seconds.
Please keep to the meaning of this thread "does GameSalad see Stencyl as significant competition? Any roadmap modifications?"
Please don't turn this into a comparison thread
1) I'm not interested in putting this feature into my games right now.
2) GameSalad should be getting in-app purchases this month. From what the Sous-Chefs have posted, it seems like a good update is on the way.
I can be patient, but GameSalad has really dropped the ball on other features. Game Center... why wasn't GameSalad all over that. We should be enjoying Achievements, networking and voice chat in GameSalad apps. But over a year after launch, GameSalad only supports High Scores.
I do like that I have more time to edit my posts, but I dislike that the clock is wrong. It wasn't 3:03 PM in New York when I posted this. There are other issues I have with the forum, but I'm surprised at the setup issues. When I'm on the Stencyl website, I feel like they understand me better than GameSalad. It doesn't make sense to me why GameSalad — in 2012 — would have a forum without a WYSIWYG editor.
We understand but we are not GS so we cannot speak from their perspective. We can only share our experience and perhaps offer incite on to why some of us switched over, which is the goal of the competition, no? So sharing and comparing should hopefully shed some light to GS on to how competitive Stencyl really is.
I probably should have been clear on who I was addressing, I was addressing the fact that someone said that the GS community is excellent, bar none. "Nothing will ever stand up to the GS community as we have such a strong community." I whole heartily disagree with that. But as I said, who am I to judge? I haven't been engaged here for ages. I lurk, but that's about it.
Overall, I think this is an excellent community... but I think Stencyl has a great community too. That's one of the reasons why I think serious developers shouldn't have the coke vs pepsi mindset. These are both nice websites to visit... even if I'm not crazy about the forum. The danger with listing that as an advantage is that a community can change. I've seen things get pretty ugly around here. GameSalad has done an good job of managing the friendliness of the forums... but how long with that last? Five minutes? Five days? Five Months? Five Years? Five Decades? It can change at any time. The GameSalad Direct® fiasco almost destroyed this community. It also sent lots of developers over to Corona. But considering that GameSalad was able to recover from that, it shows the strength of this community.
Very true,
Thanks for your input!
and ive got to say wow,no loading times at all between scenes,you dont have to wait as you can load the textures atlases for each scene while your changing scene, performance is really good,custom collisions,video,gamecenter leaderboards and achievements,joints,layout is a little bit of a learning curve,but for the features and price you cant really go wrong.
i downloaded it today and within 3hrs id made my hole menu system and swipe control.
so stencyl is a real contender for GS.
one thing i forgot to mention also is they have texture atlases.
I do like the idea of being able to look at the code again...
( some things are actually EASIER to do with code, if you began that way. )
As Photics says - there's no reason you could not keep using BOTH.
( just as I use mainly Mac, but do have 1 PC )
Certain projects could be easier in one, harder with the other.