I tired Stencyl and I must say GS is very easy to use software. As I said early problem of GS is pillar of the building (loading and performance) are weak. And after each new update they are adding one more floor of the building.(New feature). They have to fully focus on the basement.(loading and performance) Because base is very weak and once they make it strong it will change everything.
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,273
@SaladStraightShooter - do you happen to have a date ( or month ) when LUA will be dropped completely?
better interface for gamesalad.. @RKS i 2nd that @clock I think there are tons of user issues like:
- resizing windows that reset each time you leave a screen.. i have a 24" screen and that stupid actor bar on the left can't even do something as simple as stay where i set it.. - f'n SEARCH bar! i'm sorry but the tag system is a horribly awkward way to organize.. i know all my spawn actors start with spawn_ hey.. can i type spawn somewhere and have it filter those? no?... - allow tabs to be un tabbed! why do i have to always click scene / layers to view that? layers should be able to be its own dedicated screen.. - why can't we just type things into the text field.. drop downs can get tedious after awhile... - why does the gray space around the stage have to be so freakin small?! - why can't display text fields appear on objects outside of compile time so you can see what the heck all those colored boxes are if you leave a project for a week or two and are trying to remember... oh just double click on the actor right? oh that's great now i have to go back to Sene / layers again.. the view i was just in.. - real undo.. i dont know how many times i've changed something by accident and oh great.. no undo.. and i may not be sure what i changed.. sure saving versions is helpful, but this is 2012..
anyway.. stuff like that isn't even heavy development intensive stuff.. i mean really.. i mean heck.. just fix one of these things every month or two.. i can't believe they really are that resource intensive..
don't get me started on the borderline-false advertising of HTML5 games.. the options we have to use this tech is barely worth calling a tech demo.. landscape only? fixed (tiny) rez? pro users can't hid all that stupid frame stuff or define a custom rez? I could have made several business deals this year if GS just let me make a game appear like a flash game does, which is simply THE GAME on a screen of my choice... hell keep your black box publishing, just let me embed the game in a site BS free and i can see no fathomable reason why this isn't allowed.. at least for pro users... I'd pay more than $499 if you guys would let me make more money...
I appreciate the idea of making it "for non coders" but even non coders use copy/paste... etc.. i'm not saying its all bad.. updating names automatically updating everywhere is lovely.. and yea i choose GS over stencyl because in just a few minutes of watching the pachinko video tut.. i was well on my way making a game.. where stencyl, i couldn't even find good tuts.. the build in slide show tuts are painful..
but yea, they really need to look at Adobe CS5 products like flash or photoshop and see how easy it is to move boxes around. Maybe this is coming soon, but really it can't come soon enough! Maybe this is coming with the lua free version.. i just would like to know specifics about the roadmap because i don't think there is enough dialog about usability.. i waste so much time just getting around the UI...
Thanks Caleb
p.s. i love GameSalad.. and i love the GS devs.. its just my livelyhood at stake.. time is precious.. and making the UI experience better has absolutely no negative side effects! Not even much to debug compared to some of the crazy-cool things you guys have been implementing recently.
I love the article @Photics. I hope Gamesalad reads that @SaladStraightShooter - Take some serious consideration of those awesome points. Which i'm sure they will! But as you said.. We've been let down before. I really truly hope GS isn't leading us astray this time and are really amping things up.
The only thing that'll make me convert is if I don't release a game and the pro membership price goes up, the promised features don't come or it just seems GS is falling to far behind. Fingers crossed because I do love GS. But as a wise man taught me recently, don't fall in love with something to much, because you might over see its faults and get dragged down with it. (hope you're reading that mate)
But for the time being, GS is the way to go. This year is their chance to impress me move then ever! C'mon GAMESALAD WE'RE ALL PUTTING OUR FAITH IN YOU!!
GameSalad has now added extra income revenues, they are close to completing their major structural changes in architect by dropping LUA (which must have taken a lot of work), so now they will have no excuse not to bring us the new and requested features! I guess with the LUA wrap they're restricted to a degree of how they implement a new feature so its easy and also not too taxing on performance, with the increase from going native, they now only have 1 problem
For me the next six months are big for GS, they seem to be on the right track.. If they can deliver a lua free engine and a smart interface that speeds up workflow and can work on duel screens by breaking apart the windows then I will be convinced they are moving in the right direction. Then I will be confident all the other features will follow in a timely manner as they no longer have to do a translation with lua gone. If GS doesn't deliver I will begin to seriously look at where all the other tools are in their development and make a serious decision about my tool of choice moving forward. By six months from now we will be finished with our next two products and in our break which will allow us time to decide how we move forward. I think all of us are at this place as for many of us this is our business and we need the best tool to compete. I do love the core of this community of serious developers but as much as I like you all I need to make my venture profitable and I need to eat too. I think those who are building ventures with GS share a similar feeling about this. In the end as a business person you have to do what is best for your business model and not let your heart and bias get in the way.
We've been busy working on the engine side of things and wanted to give you a quick update.
We're glad that folks are excited about the architectural changes. Our guys have been working hard on the changes, and the results we're seeing are pretty exciting. We've been building a team over the past year, so this year should see some exciting new features coming down.
@FryingBaconStudios - Yup the next 6 months need to be BIG for GS, competition is seriously catching up and judging by some of the migrators over at stencyl for instance, surpassed it!
My GS pro has just ran out and i would not update just yet as i would like to see what they start delivering! Im not really interested in most pro things but i don't want play haven, i want external links and if i can get the audio acceptable, i'd like to publish for Android. However, i feel i may have to update as i want to release 'Star Serum' soon and i need some of those features!
@QVT - So can you actually give us some kind of time frame? You're talking about results so i assume the majority is done. Are you just in testing phase? When can we realistically expect to have it (roughly)?
Anyone know when GS is likely to implement this big architectural change . . . . ? (even a rough idea would be good, 2 months, 6 months, sometime 'this year' ?) Educated guesses and pure speculation welcomed !
@QVT Is this major upgrade going to address the various interface issues with Gamesalad (or is it purely a behind the scenes upgrade ?)
I'd like to echo part12Studios ' comments:
I have a 27" screen which is 2560 pixels wide, and spend a fair bit of time in the Actors and Images windows, but as I cannot keep these windows opened out to whatever size I want I am forced to spend a lot of my day working in a 394 pixel wide window ! The ability to simply be able to be able to resize a window and have it stay like that would make an enormous amount of difference to me (and I suspect many others).
Forcing the user to use a 394 pixel wide window when they might have to navigate hundreds of assets seems like a throwback in a world where even the Mac's icons can be sized to 512 pixels ! (and stay at the size you left them). That bears repeating, you can make your icons bigger than two of the most used windows in Gamesalad. This is just one gripe of numerous issues with GS's interface, I could go on about Gamesalad's interface for hours but I wouldn't be pointing out anything that others have not already mentioned months ago, it's enough to say that a really exciting piece of software with enormous potential is let down by an interface that seems to conspire against you from the moment you open the program.
"If there's a bug in stencyl then you tell Jon and the bug is squashed within a couple of days contra Gs 4-6 weeks...."
That sounds great, I wonder how long the GS interpolate bug would survive over at iStencyl ? It's still here, update after update.
I am like a lot of people here, I love Gamesalad, I think it the greatest thing since sliced bread, seriously, I love it, but would certainly be tempted by software that does what Gamesalad does but does it better, faster and with a post 1998 interface . . . whether iStencyl is that software I don't know . . . . again like others here, any serious investigation of another platform would have to come at the end of your current app development (2 apps in my case) as no one wants the hassle of changing horses mid-race, but iStencyl certainly looks good.
One other point (and I know this is not going to find much in the way of consensus), but personally I would be happy to pay a lot more than $500 for Gamesalad 'Pro' if the various technical issues people have raised were addressed (features, bugs, interface etc), in fact at $500 Gamesalad would be the cheapest piece of professional software I own, by a very long way (Adobe are happy to sell me Photoshop for £626 ($992) and I am happy to pay it).
Ha! I read this thread and checked out Stencyl today. I agree that it looks more powerful. However, not only does it seem more complex, but the tutorials are terrible! TERRIBLE! TShirtBooth destroys these guys with his helpful and concise tutorials!
I do agree though that they could potentially be a threat to GS. However, I think GS has a great community and it's just a matter of getting some of the basics working (improved memory performance, polygon collision, tiles, remove Lua and expose code as an option etc.). The question is can GS team do this before loyal users jump ship?! Forget adding fancy monetization tools like Kiip that have no inventory (don't even start me on that one....when someone makes millions with them give me a call!), Kiip could have waited 6 Months as they don't have enough advertisers to make us money yet - I would have taken improved performance before Kiip any day!
What would also be nice is some timelines. "New stuff is coming" is wonderful to hear, but it doesn't mean a lot without a date tied to it. GS Team you've made a great start and built an awesome community - don't get caught with your pants round your ankles! Do what everyone else in mobile gaming does....steal your competitor's ideas to improve your own product! :-)
A few things to consider, especially regarding about "no top tier games have been made with Stencyl"
iStencyl, the iOS portion of the software, was released in Nov. There really has not been all that much time for users to create much of anything.
On top of that, StencylWorks on the whole only been out for not much longer than that. I don't even believe that the tool has been out a full year yet. Stencyl is more or less in its infantile stages and is already for the most part, on par with GameSalad. With regards to iOS it has features GS doesn't have, like native Objective-C code, xcode export, GC achievements.
Not to mention that the project of StencylWorks is almost literally the result of one guy with the help of a few part-time volunteer programmers. Give Stencyl 6 months and it will be more featured than GS unless the GS team comes out guns blazing (which would be welcomed if they do, all the power to GS)
I think the fundamental difference here is that GS is a business first and therefore its priorities line up with that. Stencyl is primarily a labor of love and I think that comes through and the priority isn't to make money or worry about money, but to deliver the tool the users want.
@Dizko I agree with everything you said, especially about GS being more business oriented while Stencil seems to be all about the software first and foremost. GS has teams of people working on it and they are being surpassed by one person making stencil. If nothing else the competition will be good for both teams and I'm excited to see how things are going to play out, currently both programs have distinct advantages and disadvantages and seem pretty equal. I think once GS remove lua things will start to accelerate and they will end up ahead, so for now I'd say stick with GS. Really once they drop LUA, GS is (hopefully) going to become an entirely new beast and if they hire less programmers and get some actual good designers to fix the interface and for example all those issues @part12sutdios was mentioning, it could become one of the best programs out there for making games. This year's going to make or break GS.
@SaladStraightShooter - "This thread is leaning a bit too far into "look how awesome iStencyl is"." ...... Easy solution to that mate! Give us more features that will make our games better and blow the competition out of the water
Stop concentrating on the money grabbers requests ... that no doubt just release templates as is, with a bucket load of monetization elements in them! The point being in this thread, iStencyl seem to be concentrating on adding features that improve games, better collisions, joints, etc .. If GameSalad delivered these kind of things, without bugs, there wouldn't even be a thread on this! You've had a huuuuge headstart, competitors are coming out with drag and drop interfaces now, as you would of expected, it really is time to kick on and start giving us new features! I genuinely think the last update that excited me was having interpolate! The HTML5 could of been decent if it was better optimised and you wouldn't cripple us by forcing it back to the GameSalad Arcade. Give us users something to be really excited about again, tables was a good start but needs to be writeable.
@SaladStraightShooter Obviously its not so hard to understand that some major changes are coming , i just don't understand why you guys don't talk about them? why don't you guys give us some info about whats in the pipe line? whats with this never ending secrecy ? If it was some awesome new unbelievably crazy ideas that you don't want your competitors to know about then that would be fine , but we are talking about common programing features , there is nothing to hide! why is so difficult to say : "we are working on writable tables , you should expect it in the coming week" Then after a week : "Writable tables are done, we started working on GC achievements , expect to see it coming in about 15 days , oh and by the way we are one step ahead with dropping LUA" Then after few more days: "we are happy to announce that we almost finishing implanting joint , expect to see this very soon"
Well you got the point..
Is this really so hard? what is preventing you guys from giving us users this information , how can it in anyway harm your company? On the contrary ! it will make everyone more relaxed about their project , more informative about where their business is heading , and more happy ! Also , i think it will just give us all a better development flow cause we can prepare for things that are coming , weeks ahead .
+1,000,000 to @Beefy_Clyro I just spent the last hour-ish messing with Stencyl. Really impressed. I pray that GS copies.. yes copies a lot of their ideas, there is so much GS doesn't have that they do YET. I would love to see those features in GS. I don't mean to talk it up, but I mean damn... it's right there for you to see it being used in a Drag and Drop creator. It's gotta motivate GS
I'm not saying anything bad please don't think that. But it's just amazing how many features they have considering GS has had such a big head start. If you go on their forums GS gets slammed by ex GS users there
I love GS and i've learnt this software, so I hope our dreams come true and all these awesome features get incorporated. Sorry was just a little impressed. Also unimpressed with some things to don't get me wrong! But really hope GS is upping the anti.
I will stay with GS, the GS tool works great with my projects ideas/develop , love the community, the GS staff is very professional and I'm already returned the money spent in Pro License
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
Yeah I agree with Roy. Regular info would be better. You know it can actually be quite exciting to think you'll have certain new tools at your disposal. e.g writable tables. GS is a tool to assist creativity and help us bring our ideas to life.
It would be more fun to have mini updates as Roy has described.
And on a practical note it might effect which demos we develop and turn into finished games. i.e sometimes you think 'nah, I'll wait for joints before I do any more on this one'.
Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that Stencyl is very hard to learn, the tutorials are hard to understand and I think it is uncomfortable working with.
I like and stay with GS because: Easy to learn Easy to code Feels comfortable to work with Very easy to understand tutorials. Not a lot of bugs. Quick games 2d games for iOS, android and HTML5.
I don't use stencylworks because: Hard to use and understand. Doesn't feel comfortable to work with. Hard tutorials. A lot of bugs. UI is bad.
GS pros: Easy to use Easy to learn Fast games Good UI All the tutorials you can get. Great workflow
Stencyl pros: Large range of tools Very advanced flash games Less expensive than GS
This is all based on your opinion but I think GameSalad is easier and better to use. I hope this has helped you through your decision. Also I don't think you should re-learn a software.
Comments
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- resizing windows that reset each time you leave a screen.. i have a 24" screen and that stupid actor bar on the left can't even do something as simple as stay where i set it..
- f'n SEARCH bar! i'm sorry but the tag system is a horribly awkward way to organize.. i know all my spawn actors start with spawn_ hey.. can i type spawn somewhere and have it filter those? no?...
- allow tabs to be un tabbed! why do i have to always click scene / layers to view that? layers should be able to be its own dedicated screen..
- why can't we just type things into the text field.. drop downs can get tedious after awhile...
- why does the gray space around the stage have to be so freakin small?!
- why can't display text fields appear on objects outside of compile time so you can see what the heck all those colored boxes are if you leave a project for a week or two and are trying to remember... oh just double click on the actor right? oh that's great now i have to go back to Sene / layers again.. the view i was just in..
- real undo.. i dont know how many times i've changed something by accident and oh great.. no undo.. and i may not be sure what i changed.. sure saving versions is helpful, but this is 2012..
anyway.. stuff like that isn't even heavy development intensive stuff.. i mean really.. i mean heck.. just fix one of these things every month or two.. i can't believe they really are that resource intensive..
don't get me started on the borderline-false advertising of HTML5 games.. the options we have to use this tech is barely worth calling a tech demo.. landscape only? fixed (tiny) rez? pro users can't hid all that stupid frame stuff or define a custom rez? I could have made several business deals this year if GS just let me make a game appear like a flash game does, which is simply THE GAME on a screen of my choice... hell keep your black box publishing, just let me embed the game in a site BS free and i can see no fathomable reason why this isn't allowed.. at least for pro users... I'd pay more than $499 if you guys would let me make more money...
I appreciate the idea of making it "for non coders" but even non coders use copy/paste... etc.. i'm not saying its all bad.. updating names automatically updating everywhere is lovely.. and yea i choose GS over stencyl because in just a few minutes of watching the pachinko video tut.. i was well on my way making a game.. where stencyl, i couldn't even find good tuts.. the build in slide show tuts are painful..
but yea, they really need to look at Adobe CS5 products like flash or photoshop and see how easy it is to move boxes around. Maybe this is coming soon, but really it can't come soon enough! Maybe this is coming with the lua free version.. i just would like to know specifics about the roadmap because i don't think there is enough dialog about usability.. i waste so much time just getting around the UI...
Thanks
Caleb
p.s. i love GameSalad.. and i love the GS devs..
GS Team, its time to make a better interface for us.
I hope Gamesalad reads that @SaladStraightShooter - Take some serious consideration of those awesome points. Which i'm sure they will! But as you said.. We've been let down before. I really truly hope GS isn't leading us astray this time and are really amping things up.
The only thing that'll make me convert is if I don't release a game and the pro membership price goes up, the promised features don't come or it just seems GS is falling to far behind. Fingers crossed because I do love GS. But as a wise man taught me recently, don't fall in love with something to much, because you might over see its faults and get dragged down with it. (hope you're reading that mate)
But for the time being, GS is the way to go. This year is their chance to impress me move then ever! C'mon GAMESALAD WE'RE ALL PUTTING OUR FAITH IN YOU!!
Thanks,
Brian
Edit - nice little post from @Sparkyidr !
I guess with the LUA wrap they're restricted to a degree of how they implement a new feature so its easy and also not too taxing on performance, with the increase from going native, they now only have 1 problem
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
We're glad that folks are excited about the architectural changes. Our guys have been working hard on the changes, and the results we're seeing are pretty exciting. We've been building a team over the past year, so this year should see some exciting new features coming down.
My GS pro has just ran out and i would not update just yet as i would like to see what they start delivering! Im not really interested in most pro things but i don't want play haven, i want external links and if i can get the audio acceptable, i'd like to publish for Android. However, i feel i may have to update as i want to release 'Star Serum' soon and i need some of those features!
@QVT - So can you actually give us some kind of time frame? You're talking about results so i assume the majority is done. Are you just in testing phase? When can we realistically expect to have it (roughly)?
Very excited for the changes to come!
@QVT
Is this major upgrade going to address the various interface issues with Gamesalad (or is it purely a behind the scenes upgrade ?)
I'd like to echo part12Studios ' comments:
I have a 27" screen which is 2560 pixels wide, and spend a fair bit of time in the Actors and Images windows, but as I cannot keep these windows opened out to whatever size I want I am forced to spend a lot of my day working in a 394 pixel wide window ! The ability to simply be able to be able to resize a window and have it stay like that would make an enormous amount of difference to me (and I suspect many others).
Forcing the user to use a 394 pixel wide window when they might have to navigate hundreds of assets seems like a throwback in a world where even the Mac's icons can be sized to 512 pixels ! (and stay at the size you left them). That bears repeating, you can make your icons bigger than two of the most used windows in Gamesalad. This is just one gripe of numerous issues with GS's interface, I could go on about Gamesalad's interface for hours but I wouldn't be pointing out anything that others have not already mentioned months ago, it's enough to say that a really exciting piece of software with enormous potential is let down by an interface that seems to conspire against you from the moment you open the program.
@Basseman
"If there's a bug in stencyl then you tell Jon and the bug is squashed within a couple of days contra Gs 4-6 weeks...."
That sounds great, I wonder how long the GS interpolate bug would survive over at iStencyl ? It's still here, update after update.
I am like a lot of people here, I love Gamesalad, I think it the greatest thing since sliced bread, seriously, I love it, but would certainly be tempted by software that does what Gamesalad does but does it better, faster and with a post 1998 interface
One other point (and I know this is not going to find much in the way of consensus), but personally I would be happy to pay a lot more than $500 for Gamesalad 'Pro' if the various technical issues people have raised were addressed (features, bugs, interface etc), in fact at $500 Gamesalad would be the cheapest piece of professional software I own, by a very long way (Adobe are happy to sell me Photoshop for £626 ($992) and I am happy to pay it).
I do agree though that they could potentially be a threat to GS. However, I think GS has a great community and it's just a matter of getting some of the basics working (improved memory performance, polygon collision, tiles, remove Lua and expose code as an option etc.). The question is can GS team do this before loyal users jump ship?! Forget adding fancy monetization tools like Kiip that have no inventory (don't even start me on that one....when someone makes millions with them give me a call!), Kiip could have waited 6 Months as they don't have enough advertisers to make us money yet - I would have taken improved performance before Kiip any day!
What would also be nice is some timelines. "New stuff is coming" is wonderful to hear, but it doesn't mean a lot without a date tied to it. GS Team you've made a great start and built an awesome community - don't get caught with your pants round your ankles! Do what everyone else in mobile gaming does....steal your competitor's ideas to improve your own product! :-)
"What would also be nice is some timelines. "New stuff is coming" is wonderful to hear, but it doesn't mean a lot without a date tied to it."
+1
iStencyl, the iOS portion of the software, was released in Nov. There really has not been all that much time for users to create much of anything.
On top of that, StencylWorks on the whole only been out for not much longer than that. I don't even believe that the tool has been out a full year yet. Stencyl is more or less in its infantile stages and is already for the most part, on par with GameSalad. With regards to iOS it has features GS doesn't have, like native Objective-C code, xcode export, GC achievements.
Not to mention that the project of StencylWorks is almost literally the result of one guy with the help of a few part-time volunteer programmers. Give Stencyl 6 months and it will be more featured than GS unless the GS team comes out guns blazing (which would be welcomed if they do, all the power to GS)
I think the fundamental difference here is that GS is a business first and therefore its priorities line up with that. Stencyl is primarily a labor of love and I think that comes through and the priority isn't to make money or worry about money, but to deliver the tool the users want.
Stop concentrating on the money grabbers requests ... that no doubt just release templates as is, with a bucket load of monetization elements in them! The point being in this thread, iStencyl seem to be concentrating on adding features that improve games, better collisions, joints, etc .. If GameSalad delivered these kind of things, without bugs, there wouldn't even be a thread on this! You've had a huuuuge headstart, competitors are coming out with drag and drop interfaces now, as you would of expected, it really is time to kick on and start giving us new features!
I genuinely think the last update that excited me was having interpolate! The HTML5 could of been decent if it was better optimised and you wouldn't cripple us by forcing it back to the GameSalad Arcade. Give us users something to be really excited about again, tables was a good start but needs to be writeable.
Obviously its not so hard to understand that some major changes are coming , i just don't understand why you guys don't talk about them? why don't you guys give us some info about whats in the pipe line? whats with this never ending secrecy ?
If it was some awesome new unbelievably crazy ideas that you don't want your competitors to know about then that would be fine , but we are talking about common programing features , there is nothing to hide! why is so difficult to say :
"we are working on writable tables , you should expect it in the coming week"
Then after a week :
"Writable tables are done, we started working on GC achievements , expect to see it coming in about 15 days , oh and by the way we are one step ahead with dropping LUA"
Then after few more days:
"we are happy to announce that we almost finishing implanting joint , expect to see this very soon"
Well you got the point..
Is this really so hard? what is preventing you guys from giving us users this information , how can it in anyway harm your company?
On the contrary ! it will make everyone more relaxed about their project , more informative about where their business is heading , and more happy !
Also , i think it will just give us all a better development flow cause we can prepare for things that are coming , weeks ahead .
Roy.
I just spent the last hour-ish messing with Stencyl. Really impressed.
I pray that GS copies.. yes copies a lot of their ideas, there is so much GS doesn't have that they do YET. I would love to see those features in GS.
I don't mean to talk it up, but I mean damn... it's right there for you to see it being used in a Drag and Drop creator. It's gotta motivate GS
I'm not saying anything bad please don't think that. But it's just amazing how many features they have considering GS has had such a big head start.
If you go on their forums GS gets slammed by ex GS users there
I love GS and i've learnt this software, so I hope our dreams come true and all these awesome features get incorporated.
Sorry was just a little impressed. Also unimpressed with some things to don't get me wrong! But really hope GS is upping the anti.
Edit - Great point Roy..
Seriously, I get your point (and Roy's comment about regular information updates/roadmap progress).
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
It would be more fun to have mini updates as Roy has described.
And on a practical note it might effect which demos we develop and turn into finished games. i.e sometimes you think 'nah, I'll wait for joints before I do any more on this one'.
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/40150/whats-cooking-in-the-gamesalad-kitchen#Item_4
Roy.
I like and stay with GS because:
Easy to learn
Easy to code
Feels comfortable to work with
Very easy to understand tutorials.
Not a lot of bugs.
Quick games 2d games for iOS, android and HTML5.
I don't use stencylworks because:
Hard to use and understand.
Doesn't feel comfortable to work with.
Hard tutorials.
A lot of bugs.
UI is bad.
GS pros:
Easy to use
Easy to learn
Fast games
Good UI
All the tutorials you can get.
Great workflow
Stencyl pros:
Large range of tools
Very advanced flash games
Less expensive than GS
This is all based on your opinion but I think GameSalad is easier and better to use.
I hope this has helped you through your decision. Also I don't think you should re-learn a software.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS