While I agree with your position, it is not very classy/professional and certainly won't win you over new cliental if they know this is how you respond to people, not matter how asinine the inquiries you receive.
I'd also suggest that this is not exactly a model for those younger up-starts here in the forums. Not flagging, just saying.
Although I don't think the link is offering serious advice about how to handle the creeping culture of free work (it's a humorous take on people's frustrations from what I can see) it does make a point.
What is less classy/professional than getting professionals to work for free so you can maximise your profits to their disadvantage ?
"I'd also suggest that this is not exactly a model for those younger up-starts here in the forums"
I think If every single younger start-up took the attitude outlined in the link we would slowly start to see the tide of spec/free/unpaid-pitch work receding.
"Although I don't think the link is offering serious advice about how to handle the creeping culture of free work (it's a humorous take on people's frustrations from what I can see) it does make a point."
@Tynan, I got the point. I think i made it clear that I agree with the message, not the way it was conveyed. If it is not serious, it should state so. I think the reasoning in my previous statement makes that obvious. It's not a creeping culture of free work, it's called being in the wrong place, dealing with the wrong people and not knowing better. I have to wonder why you go on below to defend the measage as though it where litteral.
"What is less classy/professional than getting professionals to work for free so you can maximise your profits to their disadvantage ?"
You should know by now in prior discussions that I am not cool with spec work or free work (I got burned on spec-work about 20 year ago, that was the last time). A real professional (not just in thier specialty) is going to be smart enough to stear clear of these watters as they know better. No? Ethics and business etiquette, regardless of the side of the fence.
"I think if every single younger start-up took the attitude outlined in the link we would slowly start to see the tide of spec/free/unpaid-pitch work receding."
Being aware and smart is not the same as being aware with attitude/chip on the shoulder. In the real world, this type of response is juvinile at best (the post, not yours). If you think that it is appropriate to terminate/decline business/trade in this manner, I would have to call into question your age and level of experience (not your skill). The majority of those being taken advantage of are those whom offer services without experience or knowing the ethical guidelines to digital art and multimedia commerce practices (you don't have to be aged or work for a fortune 500 company or conglomerate to know/learn these). If someone portrays themselves as such an expert and if they get screwed, they probably deserve it. It also suggests that they are not professionals, but rather an amateur dealing with amateurs or those taking advantage of amateurs.
Don't take that personal Tynan, I respect your positioning and expertise on many things on the forums. You are also VERY helpful and a great resource, it's just that you seem to be defending this post even if it were serious.
Be it in jest., fine, but clarify when satire hits the floor.
@shaundunne Nah, it's really not that big of a deal. I'm just tired/crabby from jacked up work hours and was not looking at the room for humor to be had. I'm not sure why I came off as such. I think Tynan and I are on the same page when it comes to these things anyway and I forget Tynan's cheekiness. When I get verbose, it sounds like I'm coming down like an avalanche, but that's not my intention. I know I was tying to make a point, but it's a bit overkill (the choir already knows). I apologize for preaching and spoiling the mood. You too @Tynan.
Excellent idea, perhaps there should be a warning label on jokes: 'Caution, the following statement is not an accurate representation of real world events, treat with levity'.
"It's not a creeping culture of free work, it's called being in the wrong place, dealing with the wrong people and not knowing better."
We will have to disagree on that one, my experience is that the culture of free work, free pitching, online 'competitions', spec work (etc) is becoming endemic in the creative industries.
"I have to wonder why you go on below to defend the measage as though it where litteral.
Check out my response, third word in, caveat: ’if', I have no problem using a humorous post (or any post) as a springboard to make a broader point. Do I think the link in the orginal post is seriously suggesting you send the graphic to clients asking for free work ? No, I think it's an expression of frustration, expressed through hyperbole and humour, do I think it's possible to extract a broader point from this humour ? Yes I do.
"If someone portrays themselves as such an expert and if they get screwed, they probably deserve it. It also suggests that they are not professionals, but rather an amateur dealing with amateurs or those taking advantage of amateurs."
Again we will simply have to disagree, to me this is simply a bald assertion, there's no argument here, just an opinion ("if people get 'screwed' 'they probably deserve it".).
I don't think you're preaching, It's your opinion, I've no problem with people saying what they think, I certainly wouldn't apologize for expressing my own opinion, but then again I'm the sort of crazy freewheeling online anarchist who doesn't even feel the need to put warning stickers on his jokes.
shaundunne
Member Posts: 38
Comments
I'd also suggest that this is not exactly a model for those younger up-starts here in the forums. Not flagging, just saying.
Although I don't think the link is offering serious advice about how to handle the creeping culture of free work (it's a humorous take on people's frustrations from what I can see) it does make a point.
What is less classy/professional than getting professionals to work for free so you can maximise your profits to their disadvantage ?
"I'd also suggest that this is not exactly a model for those younger up-starts here in the forums"
I think If every single younger start-up took the attitude outlined in the link we would slowly start to see the tide of spec/free/unpaid-pitch work receding.
@Tynan, I got the point. I think i made it clear that I agree with the message, not the way it was conveyed. If it is not serious, it should state so. I think the reasoning in my previous statement makes that obvious. It's not a creeping culture of free work, it's called being in the wrong place, dealing with the wrong people and not knowing better. I have to wonder why you go on below to defend the measage as though it where litteral.
"What is less classy/professional than getting professionals to work for free so you can maximise your profits to their disadvantage ?"
You should know by now in prior discussions that I am not cool with spec work or free work (I got burned on spec-work about 20 year ago, that was the last time). A real professional (not just in thier specialty) is going to be smart enough to stear clear of these watters as they know better. No? Ethics and business etiquette, regardless of the side of the fence.
"I think if every single younger start-up took the attitude outlined in the link we would slowly start to see the tide of spec/free/unpaid-pitch work receding."
Being aware and smart is not the same as being aware with attitude/chip on the shoulder. In the real world, this type of response is juvinile at best (the post, not yours). If you think that it is appropriate to terminate/decline business/trade in this manner, I would have to call into question your age and level of experience (not your skill). The majority of those being taken advantage of are those whom offer services without experience or knowing the ethical guidelines to digital art and multimedia commerce practices (you don't have to be aged or work for a fortune 500 company or conglomerate to know/learn these). If someone portrays themselves as such an expert and if they get screwed, they probably deserve it. It also suggests that they are not professionals, but rather an amateur dealing with amateurs or those taking advantage of amateurs.
Don't take that personal Tynan, I respect your positioning and expertise on many things on the forums. You are also VERY helpful and a great resource, it's just that you seem to be defending this post even if it were serious.
Be it in jest., fine, but clarify when satire hits the floor.
The link was to be seen, as @Tynan said, as a humorous take on the frustrations of constantly being asked to do spec work or 'Work for Credit'.
Nah, it's really not that big of a deal. I'm just tired/crabby from jacked up work hours and was not looking at the room for humor to be had. I'm not sure why I came off as such. I think Tynan and I are on the same page when it comes to these things anyway and I forget Tynan's cheekiness. When I get verbose, it sounds like I'm coming down like an avalanche, but that's not my intention. I know I was tying to make a point, but it's a bit overkill (the choir already knows). I apologize for preaching and spoiling the mood. You too @Tynan.
Excellent idea, perhaps there should be a warning label on jokes: 'Caution, the following statement is not an accurate representation of real world events, treat with levity'.
"It's not a creeping culture of free work, it's called being in the wrong place, dealing with the wrong people and not knowing better."
We will have to disagree on that one, my experience is that the culture of free work, free pitching, online 'competitions', spec work (etc) is becoming endemic in the creative industries.
"I have to wonder why you go on below to defend the measage as though it where litteral.
Check out my response, third word in, caveat: ’if', I have no problem using a humorous post (or any post) as a springboard to make a broader point. Do I think the link in the orginal post is seriously suggesting you send the graphic to clients asking for free work ? No, I think it's an expression of frustration, expressed through hyperbole and humour, do I think it's possible to extract a broader point from this humour ? Yes I do.
"If someone portrays themselves as such an expert and if they get screwed, they probably deserve it. It also suggests that they are not professionals, but rather an amateur dealing with amateurs or those taking advantage of amateurs."
Again we will simply have to disagree, to me this is simply a bald assertion, there's no argument here, just an opinion ("if people get 'screwed' 'they probably deserve it".).
I don't think you're preaching, It's your opinion, I've no problem with people saying what they think, I certainly wouldn't apologize for expressing my own opinion, but then again I'm the sort of crazy freewheeling online anarchist who doesn't even feel the need to put warning stickers on his jokes.