Mature user forum

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Public enemy number one here to defend his title...lol. I wish gamesald would introduce a forum section for those who use GS as a business tool and as others have pointed out, paying for pro does not define this category. I've cut back on answering questions that can be found with a simple google search. I constantly see people asking question after question that are answered in the videos. I'm all for helping people but sometimes people need to help themselves. The old teach a man to fish.... I would love a place where advanced mature, in attitude and work ethic, could work together to develop ideas and exchange business advice. We're I can chat with people who actually read the iTunes developer guide and know how to do business without sorting through the how to I add music posts. There is so much good material for gamesalad learning, almost more than any development community, and people are just too damn lazy to put in the work themselves to learn. Now, before the usual suspects jump on me, I'm not talking about asking questions on more complex problems as we all seek advice on better ways of doing things and complex code et... I know a lot of the more advanced users are growing wary of answering questions that are well documented so before you say "this added forum idea will lower participation, it's already happening as I see more and more questions sit unanswered for days. I believe the idea's generated in this other forum would be posted and shared with the community. But I should also say while this is a great open community, we are also all competitors, there are some discoveries I don't share as to keep my competitive advantage. So go ahead pile on I can take it...lol

RacetotheMoon

I hate to generalize, but it's systemic of the generation coming up now. They simply have not been taught to think for themselves, nor have the natural curiosity to seek out solutions to their own problems. It's a shame because there is more knowledge instantly available now, and from just about anywhere, than ever before in human history.

No further was this demonstrated than durring the Grammy's, when shortly after Paul McCartney performed, the whole of twitter (mostly under the age of 16) expounded their ignorance for the world to see by asking, "who the hell is this old fart'. It's fine not to know, but it would have taken less energy to type the name into a google search. Then they could have known who he was.

As for what to do here? I don't know. I don't think GS is interested in creating a new section to the forum, or allowing all pro members into the linecook program/board. Search did seem to work better when I used it yesterday.. but maybe I'm just delirious.

beefy_clyro

I'd like something, it beginning to get so hard wading through the forums now looking for decent content. I say do it on pro

gyroscope

I agree that it getting hard work now with the same ol', same ol' but as far as I can remember, these Forums have always included this aspect; but wouldn't a better way be to link TSB's videos and others within the Cookbook; and "old chestnut" questions being answered with "Click on Cookbook"? Just an idea.

Or a yellow sticky with all the links (if there isn't one already...), moved near or up to the top regularly.

I can't see any sort of segregation working in these Forums personally, for instance the "maturity"/age one; would we all have to show birth certificates?! And tick a checkbox to say: Yes, I am over 18 but under 40 but I'm really quite mature for my age..." "And I promise not to ask any basic questions, especially those that have been answered at least 5 times" ;-)

The pro forums - as has been pointed out in other threads - will never contain 100% pro users; buying pro doesn't suddenly make you brilliant at GSC, or know all the answers (or make you mature).

I know I enjoy helping people out if I can (and sometimes help myself in the process) as I know all you guys do too, otherwise you wouldn't! Maybe part of it is to bite the bullet and plough on...

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iPad app: End of the Earth –•– http://davidgriffinapps.co.uk/
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LiquidGameworks

If you find yourself being irritated at repeat question offenders, I've found a great passive-aggressive means to both help and demean a person. Just use http://lmgtfy.com/

LaurenSalad

Hey guys- Just wanted to throw my two cents in on this issue!

Ultimately, it is my goal (and @SSS) for the community and forums to be a positive environment where developers can learn from each other and share development experiences. I believe that forums are for both new and seasoned members to share information and build each other up.

However, I agree that while educational resources exist, there does exist a set of users who would prefer to receive quick and easy answers (aka the "repeat offenders") via the forum, as opposed to wading through the materials themselves.

Currently on the forums, we have stickied threads that led to Salad Solutions (weekly answered user questions and tutorials) and a Useful Links thread (showing users 3rd party resource sites). In addition to these areas, we also have GameSalad Cookbook which now has a robust set of tutorials, videos, and quizzes. Which is the perfect starting place for a beginner looking to learn basic information.

I agree with @gyroscope that more could be done to push the newer members of the community to those resources. It's that old "teach a man to fish" lesson. I believe that as a forum moderator (and similarly for Sous Chef/Line Cook and seasoned developers)- it is our duty to help show newer members where to find this information. Instead of ignoring or being frustrated with repeat questions, let's steer new members to resources where they can learn for themselves. Hopefully, this will provide an education foundation for them and the next time they ask a question, it will involve a deeper set of incisiveness. For example, "I was watching the TshirtBooth video on XYZ and didn't understand ABC."

I hope we can continue to foster a spirit of helping and learning in the community.

SlickZero

I agree. A simple post that shows the link to the youtube Cookbook page is more welcoming than ignoring a new user altogether. I too get tired of seeing the simple repeat questions being asked. I had all these questions and more when I started using GameSalad. Although I spent several hours just watching the youtube videos before I even downloaded the creator, and nobody had to direct me to do that, it's just how I roll.

I'm all for Pro members having their own section, even though I'm not a Pro member. But it will without a doubt, cause disdain amongst the community, and again it doesn't guarantee a professional atmosphere, but It wouldn't bother me at all, personally.

I'll do my part to help direct new members to the available information, instead of feeding them tiny bits of information at a time as they post beginner question after beginner question, or just outright ignoring them.

LaurenSalad

Also, if any of the more seasoned developers have ideas for future Salad Solutions posts- or would even like to write a guest post or tutorial (similar to what @tenrdrmer did about TestFlight beta testing) I am totally open to that and encourage it. This would be especially great if you notice topics that beginners continuously ask about and there does't seem to be anything applicable in Cookbook that could guide them.

I want our education resources to be top notch and for people to fully understand where to find this information. Feel free to place suggestions for Salad Solutions tutorials- in this thread: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/39112/what-is-salad-solutions#Item_11
And if you would like to author any guest posts, hit me up via PM with your ideas and info.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

I totally agree with providing resources. This is why I created the Unoffical gamesald guide, I spent hours indexing all know video tutorials and sorted them by topic and then organised them into an easy to use website. I also created some tutorials on things I saw as gaps in the available content, including a series on producing audio for your project via Garageband, as anyone who uses gamesalad has this program. As a practice, I tend to do as suggested and embed the video solution instead of typing an answer or suggest they read material and post a link. Like @Slickzero, I actually published my first app without ever visiting the forums so I know the available material outside the forums is ample enough to produce just about anything with gamesalad. I just don't see people using the stickies or the other resources. I agree with @racetothemoon, this seems to be inherant in the culture. As I said, the goal should be to teach and not just build someones game for them. As an advanced user though, I must admit, I find the forums usless for me personally other than for providing an opportunity to help others, which is important but I'm also looking to develop myself further and the forums as constituted make that almost impossible to acomplish.

RacetotheMoon

Perhaps the easiest solution is to separate the 'Working with GameSalad' sub-forum into 'Novice' and 'Advanced' sections.

If in addition to that users would be able to block/remove certain sub-forums from entering their 'stream', I think a lot of problems people are having with communication here would be fixed.

Steverd

I do like the idea of a 'PRO Member" forum.
Then those with PRO feature questions could post there.

ALso maybe more specific forum categories. Not sure what, but maybe:
Controllers
Physics
Sounds issues (already have I know)
Graphics issue (already have I know)
Game Play
Attributes
Scenes
Actors
etc,etc,etc,

Gnomer

I am going to own up and say that I have asked alot more questions then I have answered myself, and I understand that they had probably been asked before. But when I can't find something when I search it, I spend a bit of time on it, then I ask the question.

I think the idea of a pro forum is a good Idea, Obviously I, myself am not a pro user so would not get to use it, but I can see no other alternate way for it to be decided you would use it

3xL

That's the issue with a free tool. Scene gs is a free engine and it's super easy to use, ANYONE can use it.. Even immature users. Gift and curse I guess

ozboybrian

I'm mature
ok I'm kidding. ^_^ |)

HappyKat78

As a new/novice user, I do try to search the forums, google, youtube, cookbook first and sometimes I feel like my question must have a simple answer and sometimes not. I do like the idea though of having novice and advanced sections. While you won't get 100% compliance, it might help as most people will know if their question seems straight forward or not. It certainly couldn't hurt and could only help advanced users filter a bit better.

calvin9403

well it would be good if the all the members can read the posts in the pro forums, but only pro members can post

that way everyone will have the same info

Steverd

I like Calvin9403 idea even better.

This would be great for people thinking about buying the PRO version and want
to learn more about using it.

morphinegamingmachine

The cookbook has a function where you gain "xp" for completing tutorials

Just make it so you can't post untill you have enough xp and it reminds you you don't have enough if you try to post and directs you to the tutorials where you can get more

kolabo

Great idea calvin9403!
Pro forums where we (non-pro members) could read and learn, without adding redundant questions.
Or, what if forums allowed a minimum number of comments per month for non-pro, and unlimited for pro-users? Might encourage beginners to look around before posting.

EatingMyHat

mmm... based on the title I thought this is the GS porn forum... wrong place, I'll keep looking...

dmilinovichiii

What about a "dedication" limit? For instance, you couldn't post on the pro forums unless you own Pro, have had a GameSalad account for over a year, or have published 2 games?

calvin9403

@Riony I think we are on the right direction, but publish2 games should not be there(what if those games are copies of others?)

and have an account for a year would not mean they are good at game salad

but a limit post count for non pros will be nice

Calvin

Clouds

" . . . . a limit post count for non pros will be nice"

Those who are not yet 'Pros' are to one's who generally need more help, the corollary being they will likely ask more questions, if you limit the amount of questions someone who is learning is able to ask you simply slow down learning.

I think you might do well to avoid a punitive element to this planned hierarchy, instead of limiting (or otherwise hindering) those new to GS, you should instead reward those who have been around a while and are prepared to help out.

calvin9403

yes but then they can ask in the free forum

Clouds

"yes but then they can ask in the free forum"

What does the 'limit post count' refer to ?

calvin9403

refer to the pro forums