Core Midi - Will it ever be added to GameSalad?

Holderness_Media_Inc

I understand that GS is geared more towards developing games, but I am using it to develop mostly music related apps/instruments. The most common request I get from customers is for midi support, and I can't agree with them more. I have so many ideas sitting on the shelf because they would require MIDI or OSC control. Do you think GS will ever implement basic MIDI control options? For me, even just adding note and velocity data would be huge. I think If GS added midi functionality and the ability to record/save audio it would be an unbelievable tool.

HoneyTribeStudios

That would be good if they did. But I'd image that anything to do with audio is way down on their list of things to add.

Holderness_Media_Inc

Yeah, just wishful thinking on my part. I'd love to hear from SSS or someone who could either confirm or destroy my hopes of ever having MIDI in GameSalad. Any GS staff out there care to crush a dream? lol

Ebreeze

I doubt any of that stuff would ever happens in GS and if by the time they did , you could master programming that kind of thing on your own. If you look in the Xcode interface builder manuals..they have articles talking about that stuff but you have to script it in.

Holderness_Media_Inc

@Ebreeze - You're probably right, that's why I'd like to hear from a GS staffer on whether they would even consider it. I will probably need to study and learn to program in XCode iand Max/Msp eventually, but again, the power of using GS with midi input and audio recording would be incredible.

FranzKeller

I too wish for MIDI - ( and WIST, and audio copy? why not )
we aren't likely to get them, because this is a game oriented engine

I'd like Video Out for my iPad 1! But nobody cares about that, probably because iPad 2 and 3 include VGA out mirroring on all apps.

BUT More control over sound playback would be nice, and handy
( for instance, play a sound from a time that isn't the start? or backwards )
direct control over stereo position, etc.

Coding a "real" synth will require Xcode, objective C or something... there are sound libraries out there that can help...

mynameisace

I'd put myself on the line and say... Nope, MIDI support won't be supported in GameSalad and if it ever would be, it's at least 18 months away. MIDI isn't important for a game engine such as this as very few users would implement it. Core game features and a 1.0 release are hugely more important for Gamesalad and users to create great games.

I recommend learning objectiveC or something if you desperately need this.

Ace

FranzKeller

we and some others are the few ;-) but overall stability must rule.

this is indeed a somewhat "off topic" request for a "games engine"
( but what begins as one thing can grow to be more
- ie Flash? began as "web animation engine. ")

Photics

I understand that GS is geared more towards developing games, but I am using it to develop mostly music related apps/instruments. The most common request I get from customers is for midi support, and I can't agree with them more. I have so many ideas sitting on the shelf because they would require MIDI or OSC control. Do you think GS will ever implement basic MIDI control options? For me, even just adding note and velocity data would be huge. I think If GS added midi functionality and the ability to record/save audio it would be an unbelievable tool.

There might be a trick though... maybe tables could be used to create your own music.

Way back when, I thought about hiding sheet music in a project... a note would be an actor and a line would move across the bars. When the line overlapped the note actor, it would play a sound. I stopped when I realized that this would be a lot of actors, which tends to slow things down. But now with the tables, maybe that could be used to create something like MIDI music.

Heh, maybe DeepBlueApps should look into a MIDI to Table converter.

...wait a minute... maybe I should look into that. HA HA. I'd have to renew my pro subscription though. I haven't done that yet... and I'm not sure if I should.

mynameisace

@photics Why would you need to upgrade to pro?

Creating a MIDI to table converter would only sell a few, but nice idea of using tables as a work around. I have a working guitar hero type GS project that I did before tables that used math to work out the notes/tempo etc.

Ace

Photics

@photics Why would you need to upgrade to pro?

That's right! Tables aren't a pro feature! I'll go test my theory.

Photics

Tables aren't a pro feature! I'll go test my theory.

I was able to make a proof of concept, with my rockin' "Mary Had A Little Lamb" project. Basically, it works. I'd have to figure out a better way to handle quarter-notes, half-notes, etc. to make this work better, but it seems that columns could handle multiple notes played at the same time.

I'm not sure what I should do with this knowledge though. If I made a Midi-to-Table converter, it could dramatically change the way this community makes music with GameSalad games.

Are people interested in buying such an application?

Holderness_Media_Inc

Tables aren't a pro feature! I'll go test my theory.

I was able to make a proof of concept, with my rockin' "Mary Had A Little Lamb" project. Basically, it works. I'd have to figure out a better way to handle quarter-notes, half-notes, etc. to make this work better, but it seems that columns could handle multiple notes played at the same time.

I'm not sure what I should do with this knowledge though. If I made a Midi-to-Table converter, it could dramatically change the way this community makes music with GameSalad games.

Are people interested in buying such an application?

!!!!!! You have a working midi convertor? As in midi input coming into GS and converting to table data?
Sending you a pm immediately.

mynameisace

I don't think it's like that, but I may be wrong. I think you input the notes/rhythms and it converts to tables. Maybe @Photics can shed some light.

Ace

Holderness_Media_Inc

I don't think it's like that, but I may be wrong. I think you input the notes/rhythms and it converts to tables. Maybe @Photics can shed some light.

Ace

Ahhh, still could be useful though. I have a project that's almost done that allows realtime sequencing as well as manual inputting notes, but midi capability would make it much better.

Photics

!!!!!! You have a working midi convertor? As in midi input coming into GS and converting to table data?
Sending you a pm immediately.

I basically turned sheet music into a table — Manually. Then, I could play that data with a loop.

Well... I didn't actually play any sound. I just had letters display on the screen. Each letter represented a musical note. (That letter could be associated with a sound file, or a single sound played at a different pitch.)

Creating the tables is very tedious to do manually. That's why I was thinking about building a converter app. GameSalad doesn't do the converting... but it can import .CSV files. So, the idea is that if you can make your own midi files, the app would convert that into data that GameSalad could use. Then, with some crafty behaviors and some sound files, that data could be turned into sound.

Technical issues...

1) I noticed that when I returned to my computer, the notes were moving much faster than they should. This technique may not be that stable. Also, I'm not sure of the performance hit on playing sounds in this fashion. A few notes from Mary Had a Little Lamb is not exactly the same as something like the Super Mario Bros theme song, or the Doctor Wily levels in Mega Man 2.

2) I was thinking about turning it into a kickstarter project... but I'm not sure if the demand is there... and I don't want to take a bunch of money only to deliver something that doesn't exactly work. If I'm going to keep working on it, my other projects would suffer.

So, this could be a cool idea or it could suck. I don't know. The possible benefits is that this could dramatically reduce the size of a game. The downside is that it may not be stable, might reduce performance and isn't exactly standard GameSalad technique.

If you want to be technical, this approach is more like a MOD sound file than a MIDI.

Holderness_Media_Inc

!!!!!! You have a working midi convertor? As in midi input coming into GS and converting to table data?
Sending you a pm immediately.

I basically turned sheet music into a table — Manually. Then, I could play that data with a loop.

Well... I didn't actually play any sound. I just had letters display on the screen. Each letter represented a musical note. (That letter could be associated with a sound file, or a single sound played at a different pitch.)

Creating the tables is very tedious to do manually. That's why I was thinking about building a converter app. GameSalad doesn't do the converting... but it can import .CSV files. So, the idea is that if you can make your own midi files, the app would convert that into data that GameSalad could use. Then, with some crafty behaviors and some sound files, that data could be turned into sound.

Technical issues...

1) I noticed that when I returned to my computer, the notes were moving much faster than they should. This technique may not be that stable. Also, I'm not sure of the performance hit on playing sounds in this fashion. A few notes from Mary Had a Little Lamb is not exactly the same as something like the Super Mario Bros theme song, or the Doctor Wily levels in Mega Man 2.

2) I was thinking about turning it into a kickstarter project... but I'm not sure if the demand is there... and I don't want to take a bunch of money only to deliver something that doesn't exactly work. If I'm going to keep working on it, my other projects would suffer.

So, this could be a cool idea or it could suck. I don't know. The possible benefits is that this could dramatically reduce the size of a game. The downside is that it may not be stable, might reduce performance and isn't exactly standard GameSalad technique.

If you want to be technical, this approach is more like a MOD sound file than a MIDI.

True. Well, if you do work on it anymore and want to discuss, hit me up.

FranzKeller

Some of us HAVE used actors as "notes" in our apps. ;-) It does work, for basic music, but obviously would be cumbersome for complicated melodies.

I haven't been here for quite a while - it seems they've invented TABLES!
Certainly more suited for "tracker" style music making and such

(Still no "tile backgrounds" though, eh?)

Your GS skills do impress me. I hope to be as good someday, at this ( or some other ) app development system... ( it's not exactly called a "programing language", is it? )

You COULD do a MIDI to table convertor, but I'm not sure the end results would be worth
the effort? ( Who knows what discoveries might occur during research, though. )

.mp3 files work rather well for music, and these devices have so much more memory
space than in the 8 / 16 bit era that it's less of a need

also, playing the ".mods" would use up a certain amount of processor resources and audio voices.

We could end up with sometimes lagging music, like in Zelda 1, remember that? ;-)
When the screen got bogged down with too many sprites, the music played at half speed.

( Actually, the processor slowdown could be one's friend in such games though! Gradius and such would be more difficult without. )

So, this could be a cool idea or it could suck. I don't know. The possible benefits is that this could dramatically reduce the size of a game. The downside is that it may not be stable, might reduce performance and isn't exactly standard GameSalad technique.

If you want to be technical, this approach is more like a MOD sound file than a MIDI.

FranzKeller

Now there's "AudioBus" and "AudioCopy" as well! Pie in the Sky wishes.

I haven't been here in a while, it looks like things have progressed