Commissioned Game Creation Ethics
Hey Guys,
Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on something:
I have been creating paid games for people for around a year now and have worked on some exciting projects.
The latest request for a game being created is an EXACT copy of a pretty big game (when I say pretty big, I mean HUGE). All the levels, all the original sounds and sprites (that he has sourced and provided) and for all of the characters to behave how they do perfectly in the original. It will be an exact clone.
Now, I don't want to get in to figures, but he is offering a huge amount of money for me to do the work and that's not a problem, I have worked for varying amounts before and will have a contract in place and 50% money up-front, but the problem is ethics. I don't know why he wants this creating and what he is going to use it for, but should I re-create the game for him?
I could either look at it one of two ways.
1. It is similar to @utopiangames creating templates for people of current games and that is not only ethically fine, but welcomed amongst the community and is an honest way to make a living.
2. I am re-creating work that other people have done to the exact movements and levels set out to the exact pixel for somebody to use it for ill-gotten gain.
I know that from a code point of view, I'm not breaking the law or anything, I'm just getting paid to make something and making it for him and what he does with it is up to him.
Let me know your thoughts.
Ace
Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on something:
I have been creating paid games for people for around a year now and have worked on some exciting projects.
The latest request for a game being created is an EXACT copy of a pretty big game (when I say pretty big, I mean HUGE). All the levels, all the original sounds and sprites (that he has sourced and provided) and for all of the characters to behave how they do perfectly in the original. It will be an exact clone.
Now, I don't want to get in to figures, but he is offering a huge amount of money for me to do the work and that's not a problem, I have worked for varying amounts before and will have a contract in place and 50% money up-front, but the problem is ethics. I don't know why he wants this creating and what he is going to use it for, but should I re-create the game for him?
I could either look at it one of two ways.
1. It is similar to @utopiangames creating templates for people of current games and that is not only ethically fine, but welcomed amongst the community and is an honest way to make a living.
2. I am re-creating work that other people have done to the exact movements and levels set out to the exact pixel for somebody to use it for ill-gotten gain.
I know that from a code point of view, I'm not breaking the law or anything, I'm just getting paid to make something and making it for him and what he does with it is up to him.
Let me know your thoughts.
Ace
Best Answers
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Philie Posts: 240
I would do it, its your job. He is the one that wants to copy something, not you, you are just doing it to eat dinner, and provide for your family. Just like you said, your making it for him, and what he does with it is up to him, don't worry Ace! -
DreamLab Posts: 2,127
I would do it, its your job. He is the one that wants to copy something, not you, you are just doing it to eat dinner, and provide for your family. Just like you said, your making it for him, and what he does with it is up to him, don't worry Ace!
Have to agree. Now, I can't speak from the same stand point as you can, but if it was my pay check, I wouldn't hesitate to make the client happy. It is his name going on the project, not yours.
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LiquidGameworks Anchorage, AKPosts: 956
Hm... this is a curious situation.
Well, I'd sort of think of it this way. Creating a copy could be ethically wrong if you stand to gain from its existence as a copyright infringement. However, it doesn't sound like you are intending to take any profits from any potential sales. You are only earning money for the creation of the game, which in itself is not unethical. Maybe make mention in your contract that you are creating the game for creation sake, and do not endorse the distribution or resale of copyrighted material.
Look at it like technology. You're just the scientist exploring and proving that you can create it. It shouldn't really be your concern whether someone uses it to cure cancer or annihilate the world.
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DimensionGames Posts: 993
Hmmm a very tough one, I disagree with others as I think it is your ethics in question as well as his, as you know exactly what he is going to do with it. It is a very grey area.
I remember that guy who created the original atom bomb was racked with guilt even though he was just creating it. (not that this app is going to capable of killing, I hope?)
This guy puts an interesting perspective on a similar issue: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167244/Turning_down_Zynga_Why_I_left_after_the_210M_Omgpop_buy.php
At the end of the day it is obviously you're decision but I think it really depends on the personal ethics you have. In my opinion I would have to question myself if I would do it for less money? If the answer was no then i'd probably have to say no.
I can see where the others are coming from and it is easy for me to take the supposed moral high ground when it is not me in that situation.
Good luck with the decision, I would rather not be making that decision myself! -
tenrdrmer Posts: 9,934
Personally I would pass.
Its like Selling a guy a gun when your pretty sure he's going on a shooting rampage.
I don't even see it as a template thing. even when Darren creates a template or a game he does not make an exact thing and he definitely does not do it will ripped artwork.
Look at it like this. if your completely ok with having your name publicly attached to what ever this guy does with this thing. then go for it. If your not. then you've got the right answer to your ethics question.
Its very easy these days for people to push blame off onto others for their bad actions even when you get right down to it that one person could have possibly prevented what ever shouldnt have happened in the first place.
Im broke as hell, so I know all about needing to feed the family but I still would not take part in something I felt was ethically or morally wrong to do it. -
Wow….. Im gonna fundamentally disagree with you on that one.
Look at it like technology. You're just the scientist exploring and proving that you can create it. It shouldn't really be your concern whether someone uses it to cure cancer or annihilate the world. -
@mynameisace In all honestly. I would bet you could be nailed with infringement just for being the creator. you may not be selling it yourself but you got paid to copy someone else's work. I have seen GS pull templates from the old marketplace where someone was too close for comfort with an original and the original dev bitched to GS.
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@mynameisace Realistically you know that he will probably use it for 'evil'
and if money isn't an issue, what is the attraction of the project? It is a really interesting issue
tenrdrmer +1 -
@mynameisace Realistically you know that he will probably use it for 'evil'
EDIT: Good on ya! A tough decision to make especially with large amounts of money but you can't buy a clean conscious (well not just yet). and if money isn't an issue, what is the attraction of the project? It is a really interesting issue
tenrdrmer +1
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Whoops accidentally created another comment!
Answers
@Bright-Spark-Games - I don't know exactly what he's going to do with it, I imagine he is going to release it but he may sell it as a template or something, I don't know. I'd totally do it for less money, money isn't something that bothers me that much. As long as I have enough to feed my daughter and live, I'm happy
Still would be great to get other people's opinions.
Ace
P.S. If you see a hugely famous game on the App Store in the coming months with the GS loading wheel, I'm to blame haha.
Ace
Ace
Ace
You can hardly talk about ethics... Stealing someones shoes is hardly something to boast about :P
Ace
Hey, shoes are priceless! No monetary value can be put on them I swear!
Well, you answered your own question in your first post
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Ace
Though, I'm a little curious as to why someone would drop 20K for a Mario clone built in GS...
That's a huge chunk of change for what would be an obvious copyright infringement if published in any way.
Ace
it would be conspiring to violate the IP laws …
but, as an independent contractor doubt if that would be provable/enforceable
Ace … you know the axiom… If you have to ask … you know it is wrong!
so what is wrong? … what the guys wants to do!
if you need the money … if you think it would be a challenge …
then do the coding …
to accept money for your skills/work is not wrong
just promise yourself … that you will be proud of your work …
and stop thinking about how that guy will use it!
Just do a good job and look the other way when the CEO ruins the lives of ass loads of people by breaking the law.
I know that example is a much larger scale but it all boils down to the same thing. at one point every illegal activity began as a small idea. and at some point someone looked the other way for one reason or another. and most cases the idea never amounted to any real harm. but the fact is someone had a choice to in someway be a part even if that choice was to tell themselves they are not directly doing it so its not on them. Its a major problem with our society sure but come one guys take responsibility for your actions. even if you only commit half the act you are a part of the whole thing.
this is of course just my opinion. And I will try to stop beating this horse to death now.
@MotherHoose No disrespect intended.
I personally, did about 10 independent contractor apps/games years ago …
and didn't like how they were exploited …
so I haven't done anymore
in most respects I agree with you …
especially in terms of small wrongs can lead to a major wrong
but, I just have to go with … if you write code for a game, you are not doing wrong
and, as far as contributing to the wrongs in the world today
we all are guilty … (just think about our footprint in the environment)
-when we spend our money on something …
do we consider what will be done with that money?
-when we pay our taxes
do we accept that some of that money will go to killing fellow human beings?
what can anyone do? … but try to maintain their personal integrity and values?
what was quoted is in context of the If statements
in effect what I should have said: we each have to live with the decisions we make.
and, when we make a decision … then do what we decided … dauntlessly
But I think selling menu templates and non copied game templates what @tshirtbooth does... thats fine morally and ethically.. and good
And th snippets of code, that darren & wayne over @utopiangames make for us showing how to do something like in somebody's game is fine.. and good
But IMO recreating someones game is immoral... We're all indies here... And If I was to make a game called "Star Craze" With the exact same gameplay as @tsb's "Star Daze" that would be like stealing his little baby that he's worked for months and months on...
I disagree with it..
But however...
hmmm.. Its a toughy
Cheers,
Jack
It sounds like the game would get pulled and he/she would have wasted a lot of money.
You also wouldn't have posted here if you felt comfortable about it so it all leads down the path of saying no.
Darren.
Can I get in trouble with this project?