Limits of this Game Engine?

Four20

I am incredibly new to this game engine, and coding in general(my only previous coding knowledge is html and php). . .but I was curious to find out what the limitations where when creating a game with this engine.

I realize that the game sets up a lot of the code for you, but if I knew more would I be able to go in and manually edit some of the stuff to tweak them further than what the basic interface offers?

What programming language knowledge would benefit me when creating games in GameSalad?

Are the games limited to a 2D perspective? If so, can this be tweaked to a 2.5D perspective?

I'm sure I'll have a load of new questions the more I learn about the system. But to start I would like to know what I can and can't make with GameSalad

EatingMyHat

You need to be a bit more specific, people have done many creative games with GS doing things that other people will think they can't. It comes down to what kind of game you want to create and I would estimate that you can create in it many of the top 10 games in the App Store (look at the Angry Birds template and Spin the Nut as examples).

As a coder, I do not have the flexibility that code give me, but knowing a lot of other 'no coding' tools - GS is by far the most capable one that I have seen. Code access would have been nice, but much nicer to be able to avoid it in many cases.

Having said that... there are some things that it will not do:
1. This is not a 3D engine (not even 2.5 but you should look at Audio Invaders to see what creative people can do)
2. No access to many device data and API (camera, GPS, etc.)
3. No multiplayer games (limited connectivity in general)
And the list goes on, but the list of what you can do is much longer (check out some of the game that people did like Running Wild, Tiny Balls, Cheeseman, and so on).

Since your background is mainly with scripting languages (HTML and PHP as you stated), you are in the right place. Either Gamesalad or Corona should be your starting point, I started with Gamesalad as a way to teach my kids programing concepts and stayed because it was lots of fun

Cheers,
GR

Four20

Like I see the animations are limited to 30 FPS, does that mean I'm unable to make a game run at 60 FPS. . .or is this a specific restriction on animations only?

Benjamin_m5

The 30FPS are only for the animations. You can run your game without problems at 60 FPS. But you with the 0.9.92 creator (lua) you must optimise your game, that you can run it with 60 FPS. If you don't care about to much attributes, or custom image sizes, and you use as example to much constrain behaviors, timers, move to, etc. you can't run it at 60FPS. Optimse your game and it will run at 60 FPS

EDIT:

If you mean a 2.5 D style like this:

then it would be possible, but with tons of rules, attributes and behaviors i think. Here is an example, to a style like this made with GameSalad:http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/comment/311477/#Comment_311477
But if you mean with 2.5 D something like this:

it wouldn't be possible i think!
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Benjamin

Four20

The 30FPS are only for the animations. You can run your game without problems at 60 FPS. But you with the 0.9.92 creator (lua) you must optimise your game, that you can run it with 60 FPS. If you don't care about to much attributes, or custom image sizes, and you use as example to much constrain behaviors, timers, move to, etc. you can't run it at 60FPS. Optimse your game and it will run at 60 FPS

EDIT:

If you mean a 2.5 D style like this:

then it would be possible, but with tons of rules, attributes and behaviors i think. Here is an example, to a style like this made with GameSalad:http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/comment/311477/#Comment_311477
But if you mean with 2.5 D something like this:

it wouldn't be possible i think!
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Benjamin

ty for the reply. I am talking about the 2nd image. like how Mario RPG works(where you can walk left right and up and down throughout an entire map)

Four20

You need to be a bit more specific, people have done many creative games with GS doing things that other people will think they can't. It comes down to what kind of game you want to create and I would estimate that you can create in it many of the top 10 games in the App Store (look at the Angry Birds template and Spin the Nut as examples).

As a coder, I do not have the flexibility that code give me, but knowing a lot of other 'no coding' tools - GS is by far the most capable one that I have seen. Code access would have been nice, but much nicer to be able to avoid it in many cases.

Having said that... there are some things that it will not do:
1. This is not a 3D engine (not even 2.5 but you should look at Audio Invaders to see what creative people can do)
2. No access to many device data and API (camera, GPS, etc.)
3. No multiplayer games (limited connectivity in general)
And the list goes on, but the list of what you can do is much longer (check out some of the game that people did like Running Wild, Tiny Balls, Cheeseman, and so on).

Since your background is mainly with scripting languages (HTML and PHP as you stated), you are in the right place. Either Gamesalad or Corona should be your starting point, I started with Gamesalad as a way to teach my kids programing concepts and stayed because it was lots of fun

Cheers,
GR

awesome. thanks for the quick rundown of what the engine can't do.

I do agree that GS does /seem/ to be the most user friendly, which is why i decided to start here.

i dont really have a specific game in mind because im no where near that point yet. thinking up some crazy 3d world with multiplayer and all would just be a waste of time and a let-down when I found out the engine wasn't able to create/handle it.

my question about 2.5D would specifically be like Mario RPG or a Paper Mario game.

so GS doesn't let you go into the code and edit how the game is written? or did I read that wrong

I am very excited about what GS has to offer. im just wanting to learn what my boundaries are before I dive in head first

Benjamin_m5

@Four20
You can see the "code" from your game from GS. But i think you aren't able to change things in it, that will wok after. You can see the code only after you publish and have the .ipa file
@EatingMyHead true You can make many, many things with GS that everybody thinks it's not possible!!
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Benjamin

simo103

@Four20 ... welcome ..... and here's some other ideas of what is possible:

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/34137/p-o-ms-new-project-code-name-tlw-sneak-peaks-d/p1

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/30862/spooky-hoofs-addictive-coach-ride-by-gamesmold/p1

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/31582

Four20

@Four20
You can see the "code" from your game from GS. But i think you aren't able to change things in it, that will wok after. You can see the code only after you publish and have the .ipa file
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Benjamin

While that does sound appealing to my noob side of programming. I worry how far I'll really be able to go. But that's probably just me getting ahead of myself. . .and really wont be an issue(which I guess depends on how robust GS is after I become more experienced).

@Four20 ... welcome ..... and here's some other ideas of what is possible:

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/34137/p-o-ms-new-project-code-name-tlw-sneak-peaks-d/p1

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/30862/spooky-hoofs-addictive-coach-ride-by-gamesmold/p1

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/31582

thanks for the welcome, and thank you for the examples provided

Benjamin_m5

I think if you want to code your game and not "drag and drop" it's better you use corona or another code-game-engine.
But i would recommend GS, because there's so much new features coming soon (lua-drop, writeable tables, etc.) and with tshirtbooth's tutorials (www.gshelper.com)(http://www.youtube.com/user/gamesaladcookbook?feature=results_main) you will learn GS really fast and good. I've learned all about GS with tshirtbooths tutorials
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Benjamin

Four20

I think if you want to code your game and not "drag and drop" it's better you use corona or another code-game-engine.
But i would recommend GS, because there's so much new features coming soon (lua-drop, writeable tables, etc.) and with tshirtbooth's tutorials (www.gshelper.com)(http://www.youtube.com/user/gamesaladcookbook?feature=results_main) you will learn GS really fast and good. I've learned all about GS with tshirtbooths tutorials
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Benjamin

nice, thanks for the link. seems like a great resource for GS. . .any idea why they quit uploading videos 7 months ago?

simo103

@Four20 ... not sure why they stopped but tshirtbooth does his own videos all the time and they can be seen here (along with a lot of free demo templates):

http://www.gshelper.com

Four20

@Four20 ... not sure why they stopped but tshirtbooth does his own videos all the time and they can be seen here (along with a lot of free demo templates):

http://www.gshelper.com

very cool. i've seen some tutorial videos with other game engines before. and while they start out great. lots of times they just end abruptly. . .which is why i asked

thanks for the link

mynameisace

@Four20 - You can definitely, 100% do Mario RPG style games in GameSalad. It is an isometric RPG with platform elements in it and that is definitely do-able within GameSalad - not the easiest and probably not recommended for a first project, but can handle it just as well as any other environment.

Ace

Four20

@Four20 - You can definitely, 100% do Mario RPG style games in GameSalad. It is an isometric RPG with platform elements in it and that is definitely do-able within GameSalad - not the easiest and probably not recommended for a first project, but can handle it just as well as any other environment.

Ace

That's so awesome. I was about to look up a couple games on the App Store that I remember seeing to ask if I was able to make games like them. They aren't exactly Mario RPG clones but they do have the same 2.5D ish look to it(isometric you say?).

That's epic news and will be a good goal for me to work toward after I learn all the basics and start making some more complex games.

EatingMyHat

Unless you really need a feature that GS does not have, the only constrain on how far you can go is you.

natzuur

I agree, GS is actually a lot more capable than most give it credit for. As far as the fps goes. Although the animations are playing at a lower fps, you can use things like interpolate, move to, and particles in combination with things like tables, math, and self attributes to create some smooth and really great looking effects and "animations" without a huge performance hit.

IsabelleK

Really, with GS you can make almost anything - just look at this thread: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/43961/try-and-try-and-try-and-finally

Many of us would say that this is impossible.

Four20

I just purchased the ebook that was listed in the iBooks Store for this software.

While the video tutorials are nice, I wasn't really able to find one that was for straight beginners. Most just seemed to be examples on how to do certain features. . .ones that you would use or need help with in the middle of a current project(I possibly just didn't find the correct one though).

And while the Templates are nice to kickstart a certain game genre, I assumed since most were user submitted they wouldn't be documented. . .and if they were, probably weren't aimed toward absolute beginners.

Personally, when learning a program or engine like this. I find it EXTREMELY helpful to have someone say 'lets create X game' and then go through step by step on how to create said game(which is what the book provided). I just went through the first example tutorial and prototyped my first platformer in about an hour(incredibly bare bones basic though, which is good).

I have to say I was very impressed with how easy it was. I understood exactly what was going on(not just blindly doing what the book said, like i've had to do with other engines) and even when I messed up a certain feature(not giving me the 'you win' notice). . .I quickly figured out what went wrong(I added the rule to the door instead of my character) without having to retrace my steps in the book. It was all just an 'oh right' moment that clicked and was very easy to relate the new rule I was trying to create with an older rule that I had previously added to my character.

I'm very excited to see how far I can go with this program. The only thing I can't do is Art. I went through the Asset Store here on the site. . .and I wasn't impressed with what was listed(I didn't go through ALL the art assets, just a brief skim). But I think it'll be pretty easy to hire someone to make some graphics after all the basics are done with the game. Hopefully from within the community here(if that's allowed).

Four20

I agree, GS is actually a lot more capable than most give it credit for. As far as the fps goes. Although the animations are playing at a lower fps, you can use things like interpolate, move to, and particles in combination with things like tables, math, and self attributes to create some smooth and really great looking effects and "animations" without a huge performance hit.

Thanks. Only reason why I brought it up is that I've heard some reviewers for PC games complain that a game didn't run at 60 FPS. This probably has no correlation with iPhone games at all. But I was kinda hoping I'd be able to release these games for PC and Macs if I ever got to the point where they were 'big games' that just wouldn't do well on the iOS devices.

I'm not really sure if it's possible to release games with GS on a Windows platform(I assume Mac is supported), but it's not that big of a deal right now I dont think. The App Store is a great marketplace to release games onto.

Really, with GS you can make almost anything - just look at this thread: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/43961/try-and-try-and-try-and-finally

Many of us would say that this is impossible.

Thanks for the link. From the video it looks like he worked out some controls for an RTS game. Which, I haven't even thought about doing one of those, but the basic concept at least seems really easy. Granted he said he was stuck on coming up with a way to do this control scheme alone, it is a good example of what can be done. Thanks again

tenrdrmer

Your are limited only by your imagination and problem solving skills.

With the exception of 3D of course.

Some seriously awesome stuff has been made with the Software.

tatiang

@Four20 Welcome! I think you'll find the community here very supportive and eager to help.

If you'd like an example of a step-by-step tutorial that takes you from zero to 60... well, maybe 35, you can check out my Alien Conquerors-based video playlist: http://tinyurl.com/gamesaladtutorials. The videos were designed for my middle school students, but I think you'll find that they are good stepping stones for learning the basics.

Four20

@Four20 Welcome! I think you'll find the community here very supportive and eager to help.

If you'd like an example of a step-by-step tutorial that takes you from zero to 60... well, maybe 35, you can check out my Alien Conquerors-based video playlist: http://tinyurl.com/gamesaladtutorials. The videos were designed for my middle school students, but I think you'll find that they are good stepping stones for learning the basics.

very cool. thanks for the link. i watched the 'finished game' now and like the different elements in the game. it will be a good stepping stone to learn with.

theCodeMonsters

It's possible to do a 3D game however, it would require A LOT OF images and A LOT of rules. For example, I could easily make a model rotate like in this example:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/scv (scroll down a bit to the 3d model)

Now this is made up of a bunch of single image frames but it's 3d.

alimpo83

You can make a 2d platform with fake 3D buildings and stuff, like I've proven in my pseudo 3d tests. If you want a platformer that looks like Paper Mario in this screen :

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fx6sRXWFXiw/0.jpg

Then yes, it can be done. But the only "real 3D" would be the main background and the door part. For the rest, inteliggent design would do the trick I guess, but it wouldn't be that easy. Much trial and error!