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Stencyl vs gamesalad

FirstDanFirstDan Posts: 208Member
edited June 2012 in Working with GS (Mac)
Hi

What are the differences between the two?

Thanks

Dan

Answers

  • SaladStraightShooterSaladStraightShooter Austin, TxPosts: 3,084Member, Chef Emeritus
    You can probably find the information you're after in this thread: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/39939/gs-or-stencyl/p1
  • SparkyidrSparkyidr Posts: 2,004Member
    edited June 2012
    I have used both (admittedly, more GS than Stencyl...but I have made a few prototypes and stuff in Stencyl)

    I would say....they both do similar things, but in slightly different ways

    GS seems designed for use by designers who don't want to learn to code
    Stencyl seems more like it's designed for people with a grasp of coding....but don't want to :)
    kinda.....

    Stencyl doesn't have Android or HTML5 support yet (coming later in the year)

    GS and Stencyl handle scenes slightly differently.
    With GS, each scene is loaded as you tell the app to change scene. Stencyl doesn't have loads between scenes, but does therefor have longer initial load times...but stencil does have some rudimentary scene transition effects (fade etc)

    Stencyl uses a tile based system, as well as usual box2d objects. It also has custom collision support.

    Stencyl also has more tweening effects...so not just ease in/ease out...they also have bounce in/out etc

    Both have their own quirks. For everything that stencyl might do better than GS, or vice versa, they do something slightly worse/more complicated.
    E.G.
    In stencyl you can "write" to the screen (much like the GS display text behaviour...but on iOS, this drops the framerate by at least 20fps (so adding a acre this way can take a 60fps game, to a 40fps game)....so you then have to use something called an iOS text label. Which is slightly more complicated to get up and running, and imo slightly less convenient.


    I have found stencil to be quite frustrating at times...but mainly because those frustrating elements are handled automatically by GS.

    Both have merits, both have flaws.

    Just because they both have drag and drop interfaces, don't expect them to be the same :)

    Am sure Photics can also offer some input, as he has also used both.
  • jn2002dkjn2002dk Posts: 102Member
    edited June 2012
    I have the paid version of both GS and Stencyl

    The biggest difference is their approach

    Stencyl is visual coding, using standard code practices such as if/for/when loops, declaring local and global variables and stuff like that but the drag and drop blocks makes it a lot faster than actually typing the code. However if you don't understand basic code structure you will struggle to get anywhere in Stencyl

    Gamesalad is much more focused on no coding (even though it is coding in it's own right) by using rules and behaviours that are much more logical without previous code knowledge. This makes it easier for designers to use

    There are of course various other differences as outlined in the posts above me but i think the biggest difference is the way they approach game and app making

    Both are excellent tools by the way, it just depends on what you're looking for
  • FirstDanFirstDan Posts: 208Member
    I think my next game will be done on stencyl, their creator seems a lot more productive to work with!

    Thanks all for the comments.
  • deadlightsdeadlights Posts: 235Member, PRO
    I have active subscriptions to GS, Stencyl, and Corona. GS is the easiest to use, but also the buggiest. Stencyl is extremely powerful but has a HUGE learning curve (frustrates the hell out of me sometimes)
  • JustMe74JustMe74 Posts: 532Member
    Just out of curiosity, are there any actual top quality games in the iOS App Store that were made with Stencyl? I'd love to take a look at one.
  • deadlightsdeadlights Posts: 235Member, PRO
    edited June 2012
    @JustMe74 this may help:




    Edit: link was removed, if anyone wants it please PM me.
  • FirstDanFirstDan Posts: 208Member
    I don't mind that's its frustrating (stencyl) as I am programmer, but due to responsibilities, I havent the time to build a game from scratch in terms of learning objective c. Stencyl seems to have better memory management, to cater for the games I have in mind, my game that I have been developing for with gamesalad is almost complete :)
  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 8,740Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    Guys, this is crossing the line into advertising stencyl, no links allowed

    Keep the discussion to features vs features or I'll have to close it.

    Advertising a competitor - this is strictly not allowed. Discussion regarding a competitor is fine, but do not include links or pricing.
  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 8,740Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    @deadlights

    nothing strange about it. the no links policy started on jan 21st of this year, and both threads you posted were from last year.
  • deadlightsdeadlights Posts: 235Member, PRO
    Ok that makes sense, I was not aware :)
  • mrglocklingmrglockling Posts: 258Member
    I use Stencyl and admittedly I haven't been on GS in a long time. I find it a little better but it does have a large learning curve. I'm almost finished with a flash game I'm hoping gets a good sponsor.
  • andrewm2211andrewm2211 Posts: 340Member
    eh, it's not like we can't find a stencyl link on our own... these rigid policies just make GS appear insecure. Like when myspace automically removed "youtube" and "facebook" from messages.
  • deadlightsdeadlights Posts: 235Member, PRO
    @mrglockling I was put off by the learning curve (I'm impatient :( ). If you don't mind me asking, what resources did you use to become proficient in it?
  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,154Member
    edited June 2012
    Am sure Photics can also offer some input, as he has also used both.
    I posted articles about this issue here... http://photics.com/gamesalad-vs-stencyl
    ...and here... http://photics.com/round-2-gamesalad-vs-stencyl

    There isn't a clear winner yet.

    My issues with GameSalad...
    • I can't customize my games. Features are limited to what GameSalad adds.
    • Lack of professional HTML5 exporting, even after buying "Professional" subscription.
    • Can't choose advertisers. (Maybe GameSalad thinks PlayHaven/Kiip is better, but I'm not sure.)
    • Slow development (I thought 1.0 would have hit last year. Some important features delayed.)
    • For me, Stencyl is cheaper. I have an unlimited license for Flash/Mac/PC.
    • Bad reputation... I can't proudly state "Made with GameSalad" as it might hurt sales.
    • Universal Binary support?!
    • Crippled OpenURL behavior (Why no expression editor?)
    • Can't communicate with my own web server... POST/GET for universal leaderboards and asymmetric multiplayer... THIS IS CROSS-PLATFORM STUFF!


    My Issues with Stencyl...
    • Despite three significant attempts, I haven't published a single game.
    • Radians, top-left origin and clockwise degrees annoy me.
    • Bleeding edge... feels kinda buggy.
    • Supposedly 3.0 will be awesome, but my Stencyl projects are currently on-hold until then.
    • More complicated... harsh learning curve... especially coming from GameSalad.

    Right now, I'm waiting. Maybe GameSalad will make the slight tweaks that will make the software more professional. It feels like it's more suited for hobbyists than professionals. Meanwhile, Stencyl has to get it under control. There's lots of quick development, but the software doesn't always work like I expect it should.

    Maybe this Summer I'll declare a winner. So far, I think Stencyl is going to win it... at least, I think it's best for my app development requirements. With Stencyl, it seems that I can customize my games with Xcode, so the main limitation on the games is my technical expertise and determination. Additionally, the "Web Request" behaviors are perfect for my arcade.

    It's sad. With just a few tweaks to GameSalad, I wouldn't likely be having this conversation. I'd be too busy building awesome apps. GameSalad is really close to being great.
  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,377Member, PRO
    • Despite three significant attempts, I haven't published a single game.
    Wow I thought this would be a killer in any comparison!


  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,154Member
    edited June 2012
    • Despite three significant attempts, I haven't published a single game.

    Wow I thought this would be a killer in any comparison!
    Yes, it's true. With other software, I probably would have given up already. With GameSalad, there are many limitations, but I've generally been able to find creative ways to work around the issues. It's been a lot harder to do that with Stencyl. So, why do I keep frustrating myself?

    It's because GameSalad is great for short-term... but not really for long-term. With GameSalad, I can create a game quickly. It's great for just starting out. But then that's it... my game is maxed out.

    With Stencyl, I see more potential.

    Here are the issues I'm having with Stencyl...

    1 - Layers aren't working right...
    http://community.stencyl.com/index.php/topic,11355.msg68262.html
    ...I'm having trouble spawning actors underneath the main actor. (I'm told that this issue will be fixed with the next update.)

    2 - Tiles don't work well with retina display. (Doesn't GameSalad have this issue too, or did they fix it?)

    3 - Tile physics don't work as consistently as actor physics... getting random crashes. (GameSalad doesn't even have this option.)

    4 - If I rotate an actor in Stencyl, then save and close the scene, the actors often return to their original 0° rotation. (I'm told that this issue is already fixed for the next version.)

    5 - Drawing shapes don't always work in iOS. They'll appear in the Flash version of the game, but disappear in iOS. (GameSalad doesn't even have drawing shapes.)

    So, it seems that Stencyl should be exactly where I want it to be in a few months. My game is on-hold because it's a very demanding game. Performance would be better with tiles than actors. With GameSalad, I can't put custom collision shapes on tiles. I can't communicate with my web server. I can't use Xcode to add custom modifications like adding AdMob or other features.

    GameSalad is great for beginners.
    Stencyl is more advanced.

    Here's another reason why I haven't been having trouble with my Stencyl projects. GameSalad works in High School math mode. The origin is at the bottom left, the actor degrees are counter-clockwise. And most importantly, the actor's origin (for position) is middle... not top-left. That makes things a lot easier with GameSalad. However, in many other programming languages, it's not unusual to work with things like a top-left origin for a scene or radians instead of degrees.
  • MarkOnTheIronMarkOnTheIron Posts: 1,447Member, PRO
    2 - Tiles don't work well with retina display. (Doesn't GameSalad have this issue too, or did they fix it?)
    That was finally fixed with .94 and so far they're working fine on my projects. :)

  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,377Member, PRO
    edited June 2012
    Interesting @Photics. You must have a lot of time in your hands!

    I guess we are always in the hands of the software makers.

    I have not looked at Stencyl so appreciate your opinions. It sounds too frustrating for me and based on your observations of Stencyl I hope GS does 'win' (as it were).
  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,154Member
    edited June 2012
    2 - Tiles don't work well with retina display. (Doesn't GameSalad have this issue too, or did they fix it?)

    That was finally fixed with .94 and so far they're working fine on my projects. :)
    That's good news.
    Interesting @Photics. You must have a lot of time in your hands!
    It's quite the contrary.

    This is a big issue for me. And if one of these... or even both of these... applications emerge as a replacement for Flash, then that could make my life a lot easier. Both talk about HTML5, but neither are professional solutions yet. If that changes... wow... it goes well beyond game development.
    I guess we are always in the hands of the software makers.
    That's one of the reasons why I prefer Stencyl. It doesn't feel like they're trying to own/leverage my game. They feel more like teammates than software developers. With Stencyl, I feel that I have more freedom with my projects.
    I have not looked at Stencyl so appreciate your opinions. It sounds too frustrating for me and based on your observations of Stencyl I hope GS does 'win' (as it were).
    Also, I'm not really cheering for a winner. I like both. There's money to be made with both.

    I think GameSalad should loosen up with the restrictions a bit... allow more professional publishing options... like custom behaviors, export to Xcode and export to HTML5. (I don't want my web projects hosted on GameSalad.com.) Being unable to communicate with a web server is a big strike against GameSalad... for me anyway.

    I think Stencyl needs to mature and become less bleeding edge. It has the features I'm looking for, so all I have to do is just wait.
  • JamieOneilJamieOneil Posts: 872Member, PRO
    Well, i won't go into much detail like others. But for people starting to develop and don't want to spend much money, id go with GS.

    I have looked at Stencyl but never really used it.
  • mu-kowAPPSmu-kowAPPS Posts: 233Member
    Well, I used GS and started Stencylworks. I liked SW a lot more, workflow Is much better. I picked up iOS and android unity liscenes when they were giving them away and I'd say that I actually much prefer coding in C# than dragging and dropping. It was quite difficult to get started at the very beginning, but It doesn't really take all that long to get the hang of it. Plus, coding is an invaluable skill in this day and age, average salary of a new hire programmer in silicone valley is $100,000.

    That's my input on the matter
  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,377Member, PRO
    edited June 2012
    This is a big issue for me. And if one of these... or even both of these... applications emerge as a replacement for Flash, then that could make my life a lot easier. Both talk about HTML5, but neither are professional solutions yet. If that changes... wow... it goes well beyond game development.
    I hear you on this. Adobe really came late to the party and may never arrive (unless they buy someone out - which is highly likely). There is no clean, easy and efficient HTML publisher. What you are saying is if GS or S extends its focus somewhat beyond apps they could be a serious web publishing tool - for all platforms and contexts.
  • JustMe74JustMe74 Posts: 532Member
    edited July 2012
    .... average salary of a new hire programmer in silicone valley is $100,000.
    That's completely false.
    It's high, but it's not 100k... not for someone right out of school with no experience, anyway... maybe someone with a Master's or better from a top tier CS program (MIT, Stanford, etc) but not the average grad with a Bachelors.



  • EatingMyHatEatingMyHat Posts: 1,246Member, PRO
    .... average salary of a new hire programmer in silicone valley is $100,000.


    That's completely false.
    It's high, but it's not 100k... not for someone right out of school with no experience, anyway... maybe someone with a Master's or better from a top tier CS program (MIT, Stanford, etc) but not the average grad with a Bachelors.
    +1

    100k is an average salary for a programer, not an average salary for a new hire.
  • mrglocklingmrglockling Posts: 258Member
    @mrglockling I was put off by the learning curve (I'm impatient :( ). If you don't mind me asking, what resources did you use to become proficient in it?
    Ahh Well... I got disconnected from the internet for a little while... So no forums means I have to figure it all out myself. So Thats how I became good in it just like gamesalad :) I'll be making tutorial videos soon for it because sunrise kingdom is not the best english speeking person around.
  • mrglocklingmrglockling Posts: 258Member
    Its also almost the same as GameSalad. so GameSalad helps to
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