How about a section in the forum for tutorials?

osakamitsu

I realize I can search and ask questions but I think a place specifically for learning this program would be incredible useful. Yes there is the "working with game salad" section but its for asking questions. Im new at this and I am struggling to see the big picture and understand how to do complex things in gamesalad. I don't get much out of the cookbook. Its far too simple and far too brief. I think if we had a section for tutorials not only would it all be in one place, but it may encourage others to write guides if they had a place to put them.

Just a thought from a newbie trying to learn and having a tough time. Simple games are no problem for me... but for things like tables, I don't see how to use them in the big picture. And yes, I have seen Tshirtbooths videos but they are no help to me yet. I don't see how to implement what he shows in his videos. I think there are only 2 types of tutorials available anywhere online. Either VERY beginner... or slightly advance to advanced. I would really like to see some transition tutorials for the beginner/intermediate users. Maybe having the tutorials section could even encourage some more start to finish tutorials. One thing that seems really out there is the expression editor. I see Tshirt booth use it a lot and some others talk about it, and while something I think oh yeah that makes sense, other times (most other times) I think, wow how would I have ever thought to think of the expression editor in that way.

Hopefully I am not alone here.

Crestwood

You are not alone. This is a great idea!

JustMe74

I like this idea.

osakamitsu

well the way I see it:

easier to use/understand >> More members >> More pro subscribers >> more money for game salad >> gamesalad becomes even better

tenrdrmer

http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/

They have the basics and then some. Is there anything your looking for specifically?

osakamitsu

Well like I said above:

" I don't get much out of the cookbook. Its far too simple and far too brief."


reading the cookbook alone doesn't help me understand the big picture of how to do complex things. I think the tables tutorials I have found are aimed at people who understand how to use all of it already.

Fal01

I think this is a good idea.
The tshirt and cookbook tutorials are great and everyone knows where to find them. But occasionally random people come across new techniques for doing things(like the guy with the "never use a timer again"thread), and these little gems would be easier to find under their own section.
Whether it would be a 'Tutorials' or maybe 'Tips and tricks' section.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

If you look there is a sticky with all the links to helpful sites. It takes months to learn gamesalad and you just have to keep watching video and making small prototypes. I know GS looks easy but it's only easy compared to coding an app yourself. New people make this mistake often about GS as yes with in a few hours you can do some basic stuff but it is a code engine just without the hardcore code.

TechNoir

I agree @Fal01 a tips and tricks section would be great..

I think it would be a good idea to have a place to post cool things you may have figured out in Game Salad. Like yesterday I have a flying saucer in my new game and I wanted to animate the lights on it.. so at first I was going to interpolate the colors but instead I cut holes out where the lights where, and placed a rotating circle of colors underneath its layer..

Looks quite cool now..

Fal01

I think tShirt did a a few posts a while back with some tips and shortcuts that he had picked up along the way, now these and countless others are somewhere in the 'working with gamesalad'
ether!
Vote 'agree' if you would like a tips and tricks section.

osakamitsu

http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/

They have the basics and then some. Is there anything your looking for specifically?

Yes. I would really like to see tutorials on how to make games from start to finish with "project files". Project file are VERY VERY VERY important. Anyone that has made a start to finish tutorial and did not present project files to follow along, makes it very hard to have anyone actually finish their tutorial they worked so hard on. Just watching the videos and seeing what they do only goes so far. Being able to follow along with them is on a whole new level. If you don't want to give your art work that you worked so hard on, then watermark them. And I don't want to see only the really simple ones. Of course you have to crawl before you walk, but once you're ready to walk its kinda no mans land at first. How about some start to finish tutorials of all types of game that are actual quality games. Not just space invaders remakes and the like. While these are appreciated it would be nice to see how complex games are made. And again, as seeing tshirtbooth replied, he has great tutorials and I have watched nearly 70% or more of them, but they all seem like thing I need to come back to once I have a better understanding. I want to see things that lead up to that. I feel like the cookbook should be renamed to manuel. A "cook book" is a name that should be reserved for tutorials. Isn't that was tutorials are anyway? A cookbook has a connotation that sounds instruction for creating. The current Cook book just shows you, hey this feature does "this" but really doesn't show example that everyone can understand. The current cookbook is manual stuff and its beyond me why 2 separate manuals exist that cover essentially the same stuff, only one does it ever so slightly more in detail. My background is in art and radiology. It won't come as easily to me like it will some others on this board.

To name 1 topic aside from start to finish tutorials that I feel needs SUPER explanation and many examples of different uses for it? Tables, hands down. Tables can transform whatever it is you are doing. But why and how would you want to use them and why and how would you implement them? This needs very basic explanations as well as intermediate and pro tutorials.

And most if not all tutorials should be done with the beginner in mind, even if they think they are doing them for pros. Explain everything and and why you are doing it.

I think if this takes off then the quality of games that are made with game salad are going to sky rocket. This will bring a lot more interest to game salad as well.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Most of the people who do the tutorials do it as a courtesy. GameSalad has limited tutorials all the rest are done by other people who don't work for GameSalad and they do it for free! I learned GS with even less than is available now. Yes it takes time to learn but put in the effort and test things out.

tenrdrmer

@osakamitsu

Do you understand how much work that is? @tshirtbooth did this a while back and if I remember right he said he wouldn't do it again. Why? Because its a !@#$% load of work and after making a 14 video series most people watched the first few videos. Took his provided probject file and said to hell with the tutorial I have it all pre made for me right here. Most people won't bother with learning anything for the tutorials when the project files are provided. So no the quality of games will not increase because someone is spending more of thier free time making more stuff for nothing in return.

What will increase the quality of games is when apple pulls thier heads out of thier ass and starts rejecting te games that are absolute crap and have no business being available to the public even as a free game.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

As far as tables go there basically a spread sheet that can store data you can write data into the sheet or read data off them. That's not that hard to understand. It's up to you to figure out what ways you can use that to you're advantage. I can tell you this, in the last couple months I've worked hard developing some effective AI's and some fairly elaborate table code. It took me days to plan out the code and rewrite it until it was extremely efficient. I don't mind pointing people in the right direction and giving out pointers but I have no desire to share the code I spends lots of hours working on for nothing. Although we share lots of stuff freely here we are all still competitors and I intend on keeping the tricks and code I spend lots of hours working on.

Fal01

To be honest I think it's a sad state of affairs when people get so paranoid and precious about their work that they wouldn't want to share the fruits of their experience.
Isaac Newton said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants".
So if everybody had this mean minded philosophy, instead of discovering the Higgs Bosun we would probably be just about discovering our arses!

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Why so a bunch of lazy people can just copy and paste my code? Don't blame me, blame the people who take advantage of people. Too many people around here just ask for their games to be built without putting in the hard work and effort. I'm no genius so if I can figure it out through hard work and testing then so can others. I never ever just ran on the forums and asked, heck I had published my first game without ever coming to the forums. All the materials you need to learn gamesalad are out there for free. It just that most people choose not to put in the hard effort and dedication to learn gamesalad. I'm not paranoid I just choose not to enable the lazy among us. What I think is terrible is there are too many enablers around here and they write someones code for them at the drop of hat and that only teaches them to come back begging again. "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."

Fal01

I think there is more to teaching a man how to fish than pointing him at some water and saying
"I taught myself how to fish twenty years ago with a stick and a piece of string,good luck!"

I do know what you mean about people wanting their whole game built for them art/code and all.
But I think the more resources out there ie.tips and tricks the more chance people will be able to find the answer to their question.

Peace

JustMe74

I'd like to see more written tutorials. I learn better that way; watching videos is excruciating for me (especially if I'm switching back and forth between the video and GS to try things).

I see the point about sharing project files though... I'd have to say I agree with @FryingBaconStudios

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Take for instance right now I'm learning Unity and I haven't yet been to their forums as I don't need a hand out, that only robs me of my opportunity to learn. I have a project I want to do in 3d so I'm learning it and I mapped out five months of learning before I start the game. MOst people around here want to just jump in and do somekind of major game instead of putting in the work and having the patience to study and learn before they jump into a game. I've seen some lately have four posts for different code for the same game at the same time, so who's writting the code? Not them. I can understand needing help with an expression of how to do some math stuff but all the rest is well documented in over 300 videos. I've seen people say they searched and could find anything on a simple topic that I know is a video in the cookbook, come on how hard is it to use Google. I know the difference between people stuck on a problem and someone who is a lazy ass.

Fal01

Mr Bacon,
I agree with most of what you say. I was playing devils advocate somewhat.

My only real point is that sometimes as I said above that people come up with some really good solutions for stuff like the timer thing and the resizing technique,which I although i'm not lazy would never have thought of.

And it would be good to have a section with this kind of stuff in it,so it doesn't get lost in the abyss.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

I always share small tips like that and even help people with their code i can see need clarity and on that I agree with you. As you know you're not the kind of person I'm taking about..come on we all can spot the usual suspects..lol

osakamitsu

Why would I ask anyone do their all their work over again? I simply want a section to encourage anyone and everyone to post their own tutorials. I know its a lot of work.

And no not so people can copy and paste your code. Let's be real here. You're not programming anyway so there is no code. You're just teaching them how to drag and drop. And really whats the difference? People show this in other videos. Im not telling you hey show how someone can rip your game off. Its up to you how nice of a game you teach them to make. And it doesn't have to be something that you're making money off of.

Im not trying to argue with anyone here. But why not make this more accessible to others?

Google doesn't really help. I have been on there many times and I pull the same resources as stated above. And again like I said above its all absolute beginner stuff, of stuff that's for others that have a bigger and better understanding. I feel like I keep repeating myself.

300 videos? AGAIN, repeating myself. Cookbook doesn't really help when its too brief. Tshirtbooths video's while helpful isn't the best for this situation either. Part of the problem is when you're new you don't know what you're looking for, or what videos you should be watching. A tutorial section could help point toward these video when they should be used as well.

Im shocked that this forum doesn't have a place for this from the very start. Its seems pretty basic.

There seems to be a lot of close minded ideas in this thread. To say its up to me to figure things out like tables, I agree. But why not make it easier? Im not tying to get rid of the hard work and experimenting but why point to something and say, well figure it out yourself how to use it. That's just stupid. If their are more experienced people here then help the community grow. I know that creating tutorials is a lot of work. No ones making anyone do it. No is holding a gun to your head and saying make a quality tutorial that people can actually use. Im just saying, start a section for tutorials and let it grow and let people add to to it as they see fit. I do think that the cookbook should be revised to add tutorials and not just videos that says, this does this. Show how to use them. I mean the cookbook is representing their product. For business not to make it as accessible to everyone possible is just bad business.


A tutorial section may help you pro's out as well. Maybe it will teach you a way to do something you never thought of.'


And come on, don't blame apple for the poor quality of games made. Especially when this thread is about game salad. They don't care. They just want money. I never said to increase the quality of games made on the app store. I said to increase the quality of games made with game salad. The app store is full of all different programs and all different kinds of people with all different kinds of experience. True their should be some sort of moderation but don't hold your breath.

osakamitsu

Thank you. Good to know and thank you for supporting the idea of a tutorials section.

But again, creating something our own I am all for. But to truly create something you need to understand things better. I hardly see how keeping someone from understanding fundamental concepts better, will make create something their of own. To create something quality you need to know what's at your disposal. Only then should originality come. you need functionality first. Otherwise, what's the point? I can create simple games all day long. but I have massive ideas in my head that are completely original. But i am lost as to where I would start on something like I want to create. I need functionality before I can show my originality.


But really when it comes down to it. i know a lot of people are reading these posts and saying, omg why can't he just learn like the rest of us! I am only asking for 1 thing. A tutorials section. Its simple, out of the way, and could be invaluable to everyone on this forum. It could be a place to organize all of the tutorials that already exist, and a place for everyone here to add ones that need to be added. And most of all, a place where users could really grasp the understanding of game salad.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

First I would contest there is a strong element of coding in GS. If you think it's just drag and drop you're missing the fundimental element that gets you to understand how to do the big games. Just because you don't type function Update ( ) { var : gameScore; } doesn't mean there is not coding. What do you think coding is? Of course there is coding in GS what do you think the expression editor is for? Yes, you don't have to know all the CALLS and or syntax but to really understand GS you must understand it's logic and see past the GUI. You create variables, you assign X&Y coordinates, you use if and else statements and you do vector math. This is what coding is. This is where many GS users get trapped in their minds as they get suck infront of the GUI and they never peer into the logic. If you look at it in logic it becomes much easier to understand as you know you need to tell the computer what to do, when and under what conditions. Many times, I believe, the GUI aspects of GS stalls people in the harder aspects as to go father you need to begin to understand logic and the power of using thigns such as < or >. All the info you need is right in front of you, it does take time to sink in. It took me like 8 months before I realized I was stuck infront of the GUI and looked past the GUI to the logic and how things really worked and the light went on and now I can figure most anything out I want to do as long as it's within the limits of what is possible in GS.

osakamitsu

yes obviously there is coding. I realize that. But its all for the most part hidden. The expression editor is something that needs many tutorials on. And to me the expression editor is more math than it is coding. Its more concept to me...

if I were to choose a top 3 for what needed in depth tutorials, they would be:

1. Start to finished tutorials with project files. ranging from beginning to expert.
2. tables.
3. expression.

in that order.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

That's my point it may be hidden but you have to look into it to understand it. It's all just logic. Like tables they are just static variables, period. Tutorials are only for the most part route memorization, in order to go deep you need to understand abstract logic assignment. Each tutorial is a piece to the puzzle and after you learn the pieces and grasp logic you can arrange the logic anyway you can imagine it. As for a tutorial section all those tips and tricks will get lost in the shuffle and mixed in with junk just like the regular forums.. Those of us who have been around here a while know from experience how these ideas come and go.

osakamitsu

not is the since I see it. To me coding is using syntax, brackets, parameters, functions, and loops. If you're worried about people ripping off your expressions, then that is sad since the expressions are a pretty basic thing that everyone should know how to do. The expressions seem to have a pretty set structure. Its the concept on how and why to use them thats hard. I hardly consider them coding.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

I'm not talking about expression..I'm talking about my logic assignment. Well good luck.

kobayaashi

I've only been here, and using GS for a short while so far, but I'd like to say :

Firstly, a great big thank you to TShirt and all you others who have taken the time and effort to put together tips and tutorials to help others along their way. Many of these have been extremely helpful to me as I strive to learn more about GS.

Secondly, I agree with the call for more info and tutorials - not neccesarily for free, but either as an official publication by GS itself (available to Pro members for free, or non-Pro for a price?) or an unofficial publication (with the thumbs-up from GS) featuring in-depth tutorials on the many possibilities available to GS users, again, at a price.

I'm not asking for freebies, but I'd appreciate a more centralised approach to in-depth studies of the GS creator, submission procedures, provisioning profiles - the whole gamut of information required by those with a serious interest in using GS to create something special.

Thanks for listening, have a nice day!

osakamitsu

For quality tutorials that include project files and are worth the money, I would be more than happy to pay.

lukey5227

How about the new "Community Tutorials" section in GameSalad 101?