Gamesalad : Classroom Assignment?

TheGabfather

Has anyone ever wondered, what if somewhere out there GameSalad is being used in a classroom and assignments are given out to the students to figure out for themselves?

Then they pop on the computer, log into the forums and ask for solutions or answers to their GS homework? )

Now how do you moderate that, especially since GS is really moving towards integrating itself into educational environments eg classrooms?

..not that I'll stop trying to help people out whenever I'm capable

Can't help but compare the situation to sites like StackOverflow though.

RP

Talk to @tatiang about this. Tatiang has students using GS in the classroom environment.

tatiang

Thanks @RP but the question isn't really about teaching GS, which I do. It's about preventing cheating. And the answer is (a) you can't and (b) it's not the responsibility of the moderators to do that.

I imagine most of that post was done in jest but it's the teacher's responsibility to figure out if students are indeed learning skills. I really don't care if my students (who are in 4th-8th grade) learn something from the forums. In fact, I encourage it!

DepressedPanda

This is absolutely happening. Some even coming in saying "I have an assignment, how do I do THIS, THIS, and THIS.

I refuse to code for them. Coding for them doesn't teach them anything. Then usually someone else just comes in the thread and posts the code for them.... (face desk)

mounted88

I agree with @depressedpanda in fact the teachers should be checking the forums to see if people have been getting help. Then that could help ease the problem with people cheating to pass.

Now I'm not talking maybe 4th-8th graders, but high school aged and college kids should be figuring this out on there own. It's not that hard really.

SnapFireStudios

Well.. I say, if they get help on the forums, then great! They're using their resources effectively, and most of the posts I see are not just "do this for me".
However, when I do see a post like that, I will not help them. They need to actually try it themselves, and if after that they need some help on a part of it, no problem.
- Thomas

Elfizm

You can't stop cheating from occuring. You can only prove that it was done. When assignments are given out, resources are used, so if they choose to go on the forums, that's thier smart thinking.

But then I would normally mark them based on thier code and project.
Then I will give then an unseen test, they have to complete that on thier own in a short amount of time.

This way if they just copied to code and didn't bother to figure out why it works, life is going to be tough for them with the test.
That test can give a good indicator of who did those code and learnt and who bugged everyone on the forums.

So it's really up to the teacher to find a way to prove it was cheated. Not prevent it from happening.

RP

Thanks @RP but the question isn't really about teaching GS, which I do. It's about preventing cheating. And the answer is (a) you can't and (b) it's not the responsibility of the moderators to do that.

I imagine most of that post was done in jest but it's the teacher's responsibility to figure out if students are indeed learning skills. I really don't care if my students (who are in 4th-8th grade) learn something from the forums. In fact, I encourage it!

Aha! I see that now. I totally missed that when I read it the first time. 8-}

TheGabfather

Great insights everyone!

@tatiang @RP Yes this thread was done partly in jest, but there's a bit of a back story to it actually.

When I was still teaching GS to students, I made sure that whatever exercises I gave them, the CookBook and my own handouts would be more than enough for them to be able to accomplish things on their own. And then towards the end of the term they would have to present a complete and unique game -- they only had a minimum set of features to implement, and the mechanics were almost totally up to them. We went with the "Oooh!"s and the "Aaah!"s in class to merit points. Lively class we had, everyone passed )

But now that a friend of mine took over the curriculum, she was complaining to me how she was browsing the forums and found a thread asking for answers to a problem she definitely gave in class. The chances of it being her student is somewhat likely given the succession of familiar events needed in the game and the urgency of the request for answers.

Users are hidden behind their screen names though and would be difficult to track

@DepressedPanda @SnapFireStudios @Elfizm I agree

tatiang

Then I will give then an unseen test, they have to complete that on thier own in a short amount of time.

That's exactly right. As a teacher, if you want to be sure they know something then you give them a pop quiz or a test with Internet access turned off or even a spoken answer exam ("How would you keep an actor from being dragged off of the screen?"). That's what I meant by "your responsibility to make sure they know the skills."

@TheGabfather Yep, some students are going to cheat and then hopefully you can figure out who and how they did.

lycettebros

My philosophy is that cheats only cheat themselves and reality usually catches up with them. The consequences get uglier the longer they cheat.

It is too hard to track now and a waste of energy.

RThurman

I tell my students that good developers will use any means necessary to get the job done. They can help each other, they can ask former students. They can even ask the instructor (me) and I will show them step by step what needs to be done (over and over again). I even tell them to use a 'cheat sheet' in the tests. Its a great instructional technique. They really have to think about what they need to include. They end up studying, and condensing everything down, and really understanding the essential nature of the material. All in the name of 'cheating'! (Sorry kids, but if your instructor is letting you use a 'cheat sheet', s/he is not [necessarily] being nice. It's a trick to get you to study.)

Perhaps my students think they are cheating when they (very rarely) get on the forum and ask for help. Now, I don't mention the forum and I don't recommend that my students use it, but I see them occasionally 'sneaking' on and looking stuff over. Mostly they search old discussions for hints. But occasionally they do ask questions here. I know who they are (by the nature of the questions), and I give them the same answers I would have given to them if they asked me directly. The funny thing is -- I don't think that they know its me!

Every once in a while, I catch someone in class looking out of the corner of their eye at me (with the forum open on their screen). I can see the puzzled look on their face. I like to think that they are trying to decide if that really cool guy on the forum called 'RThurman' could possibly be the beat-up old 'clueless dude' yapping his gums in the front of the class.

Photics

Now how do you moderate that, especially since GS is really moving towards integrating itself into educational environments eg classrooms?

First off, I'm happy to know that students and teachers from all around the world have been using my book in their classrooms. That's pretty cool. So, GameSalad is already in the classroom. I'm not sure if cheating is such a large issue though.

I think it depends on the class and what needs to be taught. If you're giving them problems to figure out, like how to make an actor move in a circular pattern, then that's hard to defend. But if the project of the class is to build an app and try to publish it, people on these forums are less likely to do the project for them. That's because the developers here are generally too busy with their own projects.

Even if a student goes and downloads/buys a template online, changes up a bit, and then launches it to the app store — THEY'RE STILL LEARNING!

I think that's the problem with the education system. It's too focused on tests. In the real world, going online and getting answers isn't considered cheating. It's called productivity. Working with others isn't considered cheating. It's considered team work.

What I like about GameSalad as an educational tool is that it's more real world. It helps students visualize mathematical problems. It's more hands-on. Academics can be applied. That's how I think GameSalad classes should be geared. The students should work together. Form groups and let them build an app. Then, rotate the positions and have them build another app. Programming, Artwork, sound effects — there's lots that can be learned with the software. I think a GameSalad class should be less about tests and what you can make with it.

That's where it becomes a sense a pride — THAT'S MY APP!

ADSentertainment

I actually learned a lot of Gamesalad from an iD tech camp, which is kind of a class. I really think though that our programming class should either scrap gamemaker and replace it with gamesalad, or use both.

tatiang

Agree, @Photics!

RThurman

What I like about GameSalad as an educational tool is that it's more real world. It helps students visualize mathematical problems. It's more hands-on. Academics can be applied. That's how I think GameSalad classes should be geared. The students should work together. Form groups and let them build an app. Then, rotate the positions and have them build another app. Programming, Artwork, sound effects — there's lots that can be learned with the software. I think a GameSalad class should be less about tests and what you can make with it.
That's where it becomes a sense a pride — THAT'S MY APP!

@Photics -- I'm with ya! A GameSalad course can work well as production oriented set of activities. One of the best things about GameSalad is that it frees students from thinking about syntax so that they can concentrate on both logic and on mathematical relationships -- in a very hand's-on way.

By the way, I've always appreciated your book. A week with your text, coupled with TSB's excellent videos (way back when I discovered GameSalad) saved me months of trying to learn it on my own.