♝ ♞ What's the most advanced A.I. acheived with GameSalad to date? ♞♝

StormyStudio

Evening world..

Little question about the best A.I. in GameSalad...



This is something I've been thinking whilst planning out the basics of a new 'obviously original and exciting' game idea. There's a simple game mechanic at heart though to be at all note worthy I think the in game characters A.I. will need to be pretty well done.. I sense a lot of prototyping and messing with tables to build lots of characteristic variables that don't unbalance gameplay.

To date the only A.I. I've ever implemented in a game is if you walk within a certain distance of an enemy he will try and attack you... get far enough away and he will stop... otherwise he will just walk back and forth.

Defining advanced A.I. in a Game seems a bit tricky as really any A.I. we design is made more advanced by simply adding more variables that trigger different actions, not exactly self aware.

*The below A.I. levels aren't what I require for my own game but make it easier to talk about.. just giving a nice little break down.

A.I. level 1:
Automated character walks back and forth on a given path

A.I. level 2:
Add rules so they know to walk around moving obstacles and through doors to reach a position.

A.I. level 3:
Add rules so they know to hide in the shadows when a player is near.

A.I. level 4:
Add rules so they work as a team with other in game characters, blocking the exits.

A.I. level 5:
Go back in time to kill John Connor.


So out of interest in seeing what has been achieved so far:

What's the most advanced Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) acheived with GameSalad in a game to date?

Please share either your own games A.I. achievements, other GS games you've played or ideas on the subject.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Our game puck it has a computer opponent and we received a lot of compliments on the right mix of difficulty and human element in it. Also I remember a game called poo chucking monkey that had zoo keepers chasing a monkey and the computer controlled zoo keepers we're very well executed. AI was one of the most difficult things I ever programmed. Making a perfect computer apponent is easy, it's programing the human element into it that is difficult. It's more art than science to me.

alimpo83

Well, I've seen so many game over this past years made with GS. Yes it's true you add and add variables to make the enemy more "intelligent", but I guess that's it, or am I wrong? The examples you gave, except go back in time lol, are all doable, and I guess the player can be conviced that the enemy is really intelligent depending on how It behaves to the player's actions. It can be pretty convincing, even tough is not really "self-aware".

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Most of those games made around here this year don't have any AI. Certainty not intelligent AI. As I said it's more art and clever logic than anything.

StormyStudio

@FryingBaconStudios
I like your point about it being the human element that is hard to program, not the simplicity of a computer opponent following a set routine. I guess a set routine with purposefully built in errors becomes more human.

I think your right about most of the games recently have very little to no A.I. .

Perhaps as individual and teams get more used to using tables and attempting bigger games, it might start getting put into games.

StormyStudio

@alimpo83 I think we're agreed that all we do to make better A.I. is create more rules and variables. I find it an interesting subject, building character and believability into characters by how they behave. I remember being amazed by the first 'Half Life' game and how the characters you would meet that would sometimes accompany you through some of the game were coded to react to monsters, help shoot them, run away if they were scared, shelter in corners.. very cool.

alimpo83

Yes, A.I. in AAA games is really very nice, and sometimes very subtle and believable. I've played Metro Last Light recently and was not the enemies that surprised me, but the NPC's. While listening to a speech in game, if you looked at the NPC's, they would look at you, like saying "im trying to listen to the speech" without saying a thing. Or when they are "living" their everyday lives and stop/interact/look at you when you become too obtrusive. It's hard to explain, but it's really those small moments that give the game and it's enemies or NPC's the "human" touch.

I also believe tables are giving GS almost endless possibilities. I'm discovering that to my uses now!

Braydon_SFX

I've wanted to take a good crack at creating some nice AI systems as it's always intrigued me, but haven't found the time to do so. It's on my list.

There have been several users who have done an excellent job. @FryingBaconStudios already said that he created a system for Puck It, and I have to say, it's amazing. So Congrats to him.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Building an AI is not so much errors as reaction time and offsetting that with what's the condition of the environment. As humans say we don't always instantly react in particular situations or things are out of our vision et... Like I said it would vary based on the gameplay but you have to think how would a human react to such and such. It's more observational art than coding. The coding is finding clever ways to execute the observations but the observation study comes first. This is where my experience as a screenwriter came into play as studying people is a major part of story telling. Being trained to be an observer of what most people miss in everyday life and amplify it. This is why having a broad range of disciplines in the arts is vital for an independent developer.

jamie_c

I've messed around with what you're calling level 1 and 2 just to see how they work and for future reference, but never anything beyond those yet and nothing in a finished game.

Asobu_Games

I'm planning a game with at least the first 2 A.I. Levels. I'll keep you updated

VolontaArts

lol the unicorn..that was cool

matarua

Help Volty has some little bugs that have seek - seek after event - set paths - random wander - random seek - reactive etc.

StormyStudio

@matarua very cool. There's a lot going on under the hood there. Great stuff.

I think I may be a bit tied up if I end up trying to create some 'The Sims' type characters that get on with their day whilst a player interacts with things.

matarua

@StormyStudio everybody - and most everything has a routine. That is how we grow. Through copying. So you can have a set number of narratives for a character all attached to an attribute on a random call - what you do past that random call is up to you. Me? I have random calls fall in limbo when I want them to only happen now an then. So if a character is at home bored - there's like 90% chance they will move from their position at game.Hour.11 - they have three tasks they do most days - you random call those. There's your sims style AI - humans are so predictable There might be a busybody who does 20 tasks each day at exactly the same time. Up to you. And your game and it's style. I watched this the other day (old old game I used to play) which only has a disrupt and follow AI but lots of characters - from my old Spectrum 48k days WARNING VERY RETRO!!

StormyStudio

I love that we used to play games like that...

Not A.I. related but I lost a lot of hours to Qwak on the acorn electron...



After a quick google image search it looks like it got remade for the Amiga and then again for the iOS app Store...

alimpo83

The spectrum days... I didn't write perfectly at the time ( I was five) but already wrote Load " " . I spent so many hours to BombJack and Back to Skool... Simple AI at those times, but the games felt very immersive for the time : no flashy graphics or 5.1 sound, you'd had to fill it with your imagination. Great days!

natzuur

I've actually been contemplating some advanced AI for my RPG project now for a little bit. Right now I have pacing, aggro based on magnitude, and a timed loop for abilities 1-(x), also reactions when hit, status effects, interrupts, stuns, etc that can control/modify the the loop. Bosses also have hp % actions and phases based on triggers. That alone gives it a pretty good combat AI set up.

What I've been thinking about doing is setting up a table system/automation system for more realistic AI movement and environment interaction. I've thought of several ways of achieving this.

One would be to spawn (randomized or not) actors that talk to a table and fill it with info for the npcs on a per scene basis (so lets say 5 actors that can be reused to auto update cells with x/y/other variables needed), and the NPCS reference that table to get a position of interest or other values by doing a ran(1,5) every once in a while to choose a table row to call from. Essentially the table is just a scratch table in this scenario.

The other one would be a table with pre-defined values for these points of interest that contains all of them for the entire game. That way each scene would have a col value (scene 1= col1, scene 2=col 2, etc) and can reuse a similar random function to choose the values to pull.

If using the first method, magnitude could also play a factor and send things like an override to stop a follow movement and re-start when whatever it is following is too far away. This would be good for an intelligent party of characters, so one is the active, and then however many AI's following. But if they get close enough to the points they go on there own and stop at the pre-defined spot and start activating logic triggered by that position. When you start to move again they go right back to following etc.

I can see benefits and downfalls to both, but I think when it comes time to work on that system i'll go with the scratch table method to save time. Maybe by then i'll have an even better solution.

StormyStudio

@natzuur thanks for sharing your ideas on it.

I've started working on a test project to see if I can create a way to allow me to vary the A.I. from game to game, so different characteristics can be mixed up on different actos so each time you play you get a unique setup. ... it makes sense for the game I'm looking to make.

matarua

If you go back in to our history again - I am guessing you are around my age

Think of it this way. Do you remember Ian Livingstone and Steve Jacksons books?

Choose your own adventure? You roll a dice and make decisions - choose a path - some other books were called pick a path.

What you do is the same with your actors - give them paths to take - they have a multitude of choices. Selected by you based on some attributes.

The more steps, choices made, the more organic it becomes.

It sure would be fun to play with

StormyStudio

@matarua I read a lot of those books, and cheated a lot too


I'm early 31 or 32 ... can't actually be 100% as I stopped paying much attention after I was 21.

Progress on my non linear story/character setup is evolving... trying to design it so once its up and running I can easily add another element to it with out breaking what already existed.. getting there, have'nt had to think this much since doing the 3d pseudo blocks...

matarua

Alright then junior young spring chicken youthfull larakin @StormyStudio !! got lots of good years left - 40 here! Enjoy that while it lasts.

Hymloe

I'm about to embark on my AI. My monsters all currently just use a few simple rules that result in... "if the player is close enough to me, and is not hiding in trees, then run towards them. If touching them, hurt them."

I want to build a set of creatures that have different types of movement (straight line, bounding in leaps towards the player, zig zagging towards player, etc), and different sorts of attacks (melee swipe, pounce attack, ranged attack), as well as some neutral behaviours (wander in a small area, look around), and perhaps retreat as well.

I haven't started yet, because it's a bit daunting! Wish me luck.

Here's my game so far...


I'm 35, and I remember the really basic AI of the earliest games. But it's always been about perception. If you can use the right finesse of timing and reactions, they can seem human, and apply the right sort of tension on the player to keep them engaged and in suspense.

I remember being really impressed with the different player characters, and enemy AI's in Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines. Great level design and mechanics in that game.

StormyStudio

@Hymloe
Commandos ... another awesome game. I guess it got super seeded by 'Command and Conquer' a few years later.

matarua

Bang on - perception is right.

StormyStudio

@Hymloe ... also you game is looking great and looks like it runs really smoothly.

alimpo83

Very nice, remembers me of GTA 1 mechanics. Very very cool! (BTW, I also played the adventures by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, they were very nice. So many books I bought!)