"Puck it, a common type game at heart, which means it comes down to that fact that some parts were copied. However judging from the game, its more likely to be inspired from another game or games"
Huh? :-?
Since I am the one that created the concepts, game design and all existing art (and a big chunk of sound) on this title, I'll gladly enter this conversation. What games? It's built from the ground up using traditional air hokey table as the model (not other video games). Then we infused it with pinball and arcade action (mostly 80's and 90's).
"Puck it, a common type game at heart, which means it comes down to that fact that some parts were copied."
Huh? :-?
@RP, hope on offence was taken, my point is that, even games that look different have a core gameplay copied/inspired by others. Puck it was just used as an example.
@MillionairApps I'm confused, from this whole discussion I can't work out what your view is on the matter as I'm pretty certain your first post says you're against clones, then in some places throughout it seems you're not
You know what I'm pretty undecided on the matter too, but yeah this is starting to feel like a confusing debate, I'm not sure what direction we're headed in with it or exactly what we're debating anymore? It's been fun though, it's got me thinking
My initial view was that cloning was bad. Opinions were expressed and I asked questions to further the reasonings. I have is feelings since its good and bad depending how you use it i guess.
As of now, cloning a game, to me is where you take the exact same game play and design and maybe just change the name and or what not and I think that's wrong.
Re skinning a project, is like cloning a game just adding a different theme, as Barry explain it can be used to help a business grow.
Being inspired to me means using the core gameplay, add to it and change the design. Or even keep similar design but different gameplay.
Disagreeing was the only way a debate was going to start and that what was i was hoping for.
Anyway, for an example of how people react, the four comments at the end of this review seems to sum up everyone's opinions.
Those comments from that review link are quite an eye opener. They seem to be really hating that game for being similar to another. I suppose the opinions of the non game dev public might be very different from ours.
I'd like to hope that for everybody who is vocal enough to complain about it there's a dozen more who are just happy to enjoy the game for what it is.
Its very rare to find a completely original game, ideas from this and that will get copied.
My girlfriend plays a lot of the big fish adventure/hidden object type games and its rare i will say that one looks and plays different, to me there all about the same.
Some good points in this thread and its a delicate topic so do what you feel comfortable doing i say.
Let me clarify as I was precise in my working. I never used the work greedy. Making money is not a crime. I'm all for it. I made my money, I just didn't do it making games. I never said artists can't make money even lots of it, Walt and John Lassiter and a host of others are people that proved an artist can make millions. As I said it comes down to personal choices, who am I. Not is who I am left or right, up or down. I frankly don't have an opinion on to clone or not to clone. I am who I am by my choice. Who one chooses to be is their choice and I respect that and won't say their choice is either wrong or right. To throw in another quote " You can't serve two masters" one will always come first. Some like Walt believed put the art first the money will follow other believe to follow business models first using good art. The beauty of free will.
It's not really a debate for me as Fry and I are more focused on designing from the ground up. Cloning and re-skinning is not an option. We have two projects that you could call inspired by two particular arcade genres, but aside from a touch of inspiration, that's where it ends.
I tend to look down on clones and re-skins, but at the same time there is potential that those games evolve further because of new creative input. I kind of find it sad when one brand runs with another's idea and reaps the spoils of creative recognition and profits when they borrow greatly from another game, especially without addressing their inspiration and offering credit to the original. We see this all the time on the App store. It's worse when someone takes a game, changes very little and has marketing pull, where the original creator did not and lands on a success goldmine, ultimately burying the origin of the game and the creator into nothingness.
Morally and ethically, it goes against what I believe in.
Outright cloning is NEVER acceptable. Clones rarely make any money anyway. Anything you make should be unique in some way or another.
Reskinning (changing only the art and keeping all gameplay the same) is OK in some cases. For instance, if you're just reskinning a template that you purchased, of course there's nothing wrong with that. That's pretty much what templates are for. Or taking your own game and giving it a different theme is also fine (like NimbleBit's Scoops and Sky Burger). But if you're taking someone else's game that is making them money and just swapping in your own art, that's not cool. I personally would never be happy with reskinning a template, but I wouldn't be against doing it as long as it was just a way to stay afloat while I worked on something better of my own.
And inspiration, obviously, is completely OK. Ideas have to come from somewhere. Innovation it is a good thing. Original ideas often aren't very successful because they aren't polished enough. It can take several iterations of a basic idea for it to become a game that people want to play. It's the execution of the idea that counts.
Here is the general rule I go by: If somebody could play both your game and the other game, enjoy them both, and want to keep them both, you've done a good job.
I like trying to rebuild other games in Game Salad. Learning how to mimic certain mechanics is a great way to learn building games. I really love doing this and in the end I sell them as a template so I have some money left to buy myself time to keep working with Game Salad. So is cloning wrong? I don't think so. As long as you don't steal code or graphics. That's the same as sampling parts of a song without permission. Copying a style is fine to me. Both in music and game developing. A game idea is just a game idea. And ideas pop up all the time. Sometimes even in different places at the same time. As if they where waiting to be invented. Like the book press. It was invented twice at the same time almost.
Interesting whole video as a whole from the team/collaboration behind, Super Crate Box, Spell Tower and ridiculous Fishing (which they've sold over 300,000 copies of for $3.00 a time)...
But if you skip to the Q&A section at the end they answer some questions about Clones... and how they've not been put off from talking openly about their game developments.
Interesting whole video as a whole from the team/collaboration behind, Super Crate Box, Spell Tower and ridiculous Fishing (which they've sold over 300,000 copies of for $3.00 a time)...
But if you skip to the Q&A section at the end they answer some questions about Clones... and how they've not been put off from talking openly about their game developments.
I had read a lot about them, and was wondering if I shared development of game now. Although my game is complicated to achieve with GS, there is always the risk.
But they had their game cloned before, they knew it happens and yet they still share development and their games get cloned again and they act shock. You have to face the fact that people will clone your game. Thanks for sharing.
So a lot of talk about ios 7 and flat design, and they are all so similar but yet completely different,
Is it cloning a game if you take the core gameplay of a flat design game, add to it to make it better or different, and keep a similar design?
Personally I think it would be a completely new game if new things are added to take it away from the original. But since flat design games are pretty limited at the moment, would people make the assumption it's just a clone? Thoughts?
Comments
"Puck it, a common type game at heart, which means it comes down to that fact that some parts were copied. However judging from the game, its more likely to be inspired from another game or games"
Huh? :-?
Since I am the one that created the concepts, game design and all existing art (and a big chunk of sound) on this title, I'll gladly enter this conversation. What games? It's built from the ground up using traditional air hokey table as the model (not other video games). Then we infused it with pinball and arcade action (mostly 80's and 90's).
My initial view was that cloning was bad. Opinions were expressed and I asked questions to further the reasonings. I have is feelings since its good and bad depending how you use it i guess.
As of now, cloning a game, to me is where you take the exact same game play and design and maybe just change the name and or what not and I think that's wrong.
Re skinning a project, is like cloning a game just adding a different theme, as Barry explain it can be used to help a business grow.
Being inspired to me means using the core gameplay, add to it and change the design. Or even keep similar design but different gameplay.
Disagreeing was the only way a debate was going to start and that what was i was hoping for.
Anyway, for an example of how people react, the four comments at the end of this review seems to sum up everyone's opinions.
http://appadvice.com/review/quickadvice-geometry-dash
I'd like to hope that for everybody who is vocal enough to complain about it there's a dozen more who are just happy to enjoy the game for what it is.
My girlfriend plays a lot of the big fish adventure/hidden object type games and its rare i will say that one looks and plays different, to me there all about the same.
Some good points in this thread and its a delicate topic so do what you feel comfortable doing i say.
Darren.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I tend to look down on clones and re-skins, but at the same time there is potential that those games evolve further because of new creative input. I kind of find it sad when one brand runs with another's idea and reaps the spoils of creative recognition and profits when they borrow greatly from another game, especially without addressing their inspiration and offering credit to the original. We see this all the time on the App store. It's worse when someone takes a game, changes very little and has marketing pull, where the original creator did not and lands on a success goldmine, ultimately burying the origin of the game and the creator into nothingness.
Morally and ethically, it goes against what I believe in.
Outright cloning is NEVER acceptable. Clones rarely make any money anyway. Anything you make should be unique in some way or another.
Reskinning (changing only the art and keeping all gameplay the same) is OK in some cases. For instance, if you're just reskinning a template that you purchased, of course there's nothing wrong with that. That's pretty much what templates are for. Or taking your own game and giving it a different theme is also fine (like NimbleBit's Scoops and Sky Burger). But if you're taking someone else's game that is making them money and just swapping in your own art, that's not cool. I personally would never be happy with reskinning a template, but I wouldn't be against doing it as long as it was just a way to stay afloat while I worked on something better of my own.
And inspiration, obviously, is completely OK. Ideas have to come from somewhere. Innovation it is a good thing. Original ideas often aren't very successful because they aren't polished enough. It can take several iterations of a basic idea for it to become a game that people want to play. It's the execution of the idea that counts.
Here is the general rule I go by: If somebody could play both your game and the other game, enjoy them both, and want to keep them both, you've done a good job.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Interesting whole video as a whole from the team/collaboration behind, Super Crate Box, Spell Tower and ridiculous Fishing (which they've sold over 300,000 copies of for $3.00 a time)...
But if you skip to the Q&A section at the end they answer some questions about Clones... and how they've not been put off from talking openly about their game developments.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1019340/Cloned-at-Birth-The-Story
But they had their game cloned before, they knew it happens and yet they still share development and their games get cloned again and they act shock. You have to face the fact that people will clone your game. Thanks for sharing.
Is it cloning a game if you take the core gameplay of a flat design game, add to it to make it better or different, and keep a similar design?
Personally I think it would be a completely new game if new things are added to take it away from the original. But since flat design games are pretty limited at the moment, would people make the assumption it's just a clone? Thoughts?