We're pulling the plug on Amazon
jigglybean
Member Posts: 1,584
After a huge back and fourth argument with Amazon our a new app, we've decided to pull all our games from their store. Frankly sick of their double standards and idiots who either can't read, or don't understand their own company policy.
Hopefully all our games will be removed by the end of today.
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Comments
What was the disagreement?
It was an IP thing.
The story is pretty long but others who have experienced the Amazon Headless Chicken emails will understand.
Right now, we have a game called Flappy Birdie(not flappy bird) on their store. 2 in fact. One free, the other paid. The paid one has sold pretty well.
We sent in an update which they rejected but wanted us to put this in - This app was not created or endorsed by the owners of "Flappy Bird" or 'Gears Studios'.
So we did. It was accepted.
Monday, we upload a new game with 9 birds to unlock called Flappy friends. We put the same line in the text. Tuesday, we have an email saying we need to remove the word flappy bird from our bullet point, so we did. (Plays just like flappy bird)
Wednesday, we have another email asking us to provide proof we can use the word 'flappy bird' in the description. I fell off my chair.
This title was due for release today(friday)
I then sent back an email giving them examples of Amazon Headless Chicken Syndrome and point blank refused to make any further changes until they sort out their own policy.
This morning, they rejected the app. Two things stand out for me.
Firstly. ONE email outlining ALL the problems, not daily stupid nit picking ones, it really fucked me off. Then, the double standards. You count how many apps have the word flappy and bird, and considering they TOLD US to use that line of text, makes things worse.
In the end, I frankly cant be bothered with them any more until they sort themselves out. Their process takes too long, the team are idiots and no one either can read or look at follow up emails.
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I don't want to make you more angry but this sounds like it comes with the territory, if you are going to clone.
Not really. You're just missing the point.
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I don't really have a thing against clones expect flappy bird. But to me I think a big deal is being made out of something that's clearly was going to happen.
They said they were cracking down, they get so many, it's not good for the AppStore. They know so they are cracking down. I don't see what the big deal is, a lot of people took a ride on a cash cow and now it's reached its end. Is that really a good reason to stop developing to a market.
Maybe I am missing something because you been stating on other peoples thread. Is there more to the story or am just not understand?
Let me put this another way. It has nothing to do with it being a clone. Its the PROCESS that Amazon are using.
First - Using the word 'flappy' is fine
Second - its not
Third, they tell us to use the word flappy
fourth - then they say not to.
This is the kind of thing that is annoying and to rub salt in the wound, they don't just send one email outlining ALL the issues, just one, daily, with one issue...down right stupid.
It's a bit like me saying I am going to buy you an ice cream, buy it for you, then take it away.
That any clearer?
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Amazon reviewers change each time you submit and some have bigger issues with clones than others - this seems to be clear from your experience.
If the game was not a clone they are less likely to have problems with the interpretation of their policy.
Just an opinion, good luck with the process.
Oh, I get you now, the communication aspect.
If I was you I would see if the wait and frustration is paid for in the reward.
Keep up the good work in developing. Hope it all gets better here on out
Indeed. Never experienced anything like it in a long time. Just busy moving stuff to google who are a lot more helpful
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@jigglybean,
A lot of people have dealt with their apps being rejected from ALL the markets, (not just Amazon). There were penny of articles out stating that the companies were taking actions on Flappy Bird Clones. If it didn't get rejected then you got lucky and got a pass but if it did get rejected then you just accept it since there were plenty of warnings that this was happening. I understand why you may be frustrated because one reviewer approves it, then another reviewer doesn't but that happens in all the markets with an approval process. Hope you understand!
I've had apps rejected before and I deal with that but its just this is nit picking annoyed me beyond anything. A new email every day with something different. Either way, I'm pulling everything off tonight once they wake up over there....Google has just put my app up no problems, so for me, thats where I will be conducting my business
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I can understand your frustration more than most and nothing grinds my gears more than seeing this:
But the fact is this guy got on first and most likely pays Amazon for advertising.
Money talks - the App stores are like rogue states you either play by their rules or you move out.
Ok...HOW is that clone featured if they wouldn't even accept his??
honestly i have a hard time having sympathy for anything negative happening when you are making clones. even less when your cloning the game along with naming it as closely as possible to the original. Have a little creativity and at the very least make up your own name...
@tenrdrmer It has been said before and I'll say it again. most games these days are clones of an earlier game. They are all part of a their particular genre. It just so happens that Dong has created a genre. A Flappy genre. It's there and its there for good, so the fact that Amazon is not allowing this genre to thrive is wrong. Whilst allowing some to live and even promote them. It leave a very confusing message.
I do agree people should change art and name (Which is what I did) but still got penalised.
Can't say the same for 'Flappy Wings' which they have up in lights.
That is such a cop out. "All games are clones so cloning is totally cool" No all games are clones because people have lost their creativity. I haven't made a game of my own in some time because i am not satisfied with putting my name on something that is not creative and somewhat new. yes Games have taken inspiration from each other for years but inspiration is WAY WAY different than CLONE.
And no its not Wrong for Amazon to run their store the way they want. ITs their store. Thats business. Companies decide everyday what products they put on their shelves for a multitude of reasons. Its no different in the app stores.
Regardless of the clone debate, for them to say "no you can't use that word in your game", then go and promote another with the exact word in it's TITLE. I think that's a bit rich. It's like what lycette says, money talks.
Now onto the clone debate, all it takes is for some game to be a viral hit, then others will follow. The only reason say platformers aren't all called clones (and there are a whole heap of them) is because there hasn't been a viral platformer hit yet. But when there is, look out for the platform clones.
I'll leave this here - food for thought for sure:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/24/clones-clones-everywhere-1024-2048-and-other-copies-of-popular-paid-game-threes-fill-the-app-stores/
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I think you are mistaking genres and clones.
A genre is a style if game. ie. platformers are not clones because they have a story behind them. Unique level designs and layouts, characters, etc.... Yes there are platformer clones but the genre as a whole cannot be classified as all clones
Clones ie. "Flappy" games are all the same exact game with slightly different artwork. Usually a similar name to being recognition of the successful original to the table as well.
I'm gonna leave it with this last comment because there's to many people who feel its there god given right to ride on the coat tails of someone's success to keep segueing this for no apparent reason.
But you said it yourself
You basically acknowledge there's no creativity in this. People clone to make a buck off someone else's creativity and success.
I agree with this. If you're going to draw inspiration from an existing game (clone, whatever u want to call it) your doing yourself a disservice by not innovating in some form.
But I do believe the original complaint has been lost. Amazon, in this case, are complete @$$ holes and the evidence is clear. No further questions your honor.
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@tenrdrmer
I see where you're coming from but like those who just post about cloning, miss the point altogether. Essentially, Call of Duty is a CLONE of Battlefield, just reskinned with different maps.
Battlefield is a clone of Quake just with a new skin and maps. It goes on. But you are dragging this into a clone argument when that is NOT the issue. Had Amazon said to me in the first mail, 'sorry but its a clone please change A,B,C and D in your game' - then I would have made them, or asked for more detail.
Its the manner of Amazons double standards and the several emails with just ONE change every single day that just narks me. And to make matters even worse, I sent them an extremely detailed email to close down my account outlining the reasons why. And they responded this morning -
"Hello George,
Thank you for writing in. Our goal is to establish long-term relationships with developers, and we would appreciate your feedback on what we can do to improve your Amazon Mobile App Distribution Program experience.
Please note that we are not charging a Distribution Program fee.
If you would still like to close your account, please send an e-mail with your developer name, contact information, and a list of your applications to apps-notices@amazon.com with a carbon-copy via e-mail to contracts-legal@amazon.com. We will notify you of receipt of your e-mail and respond within 48 hours with confirmation of your request to close your account."
Proof if it was ever needed that they are unable to actually read at Amazon.
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The Clones are taking over!!
I love people who add !@#$% all to the conversation and their inability to understand the actual core of a thread
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Sorry @jiggluybean I just try to lighten things a little. I find it less painful that way.
There's a big difference, in my opinion, between a clone and a game inspired by another game. Flappy Bird was inspired by Helicopter. Flappy Wings is a clone of Flappy Bird.
Clone: A copy of a game made to play and look as similar as possible to the original in order to get people to buy/download it based on their love of the original.
Inspiration: A game that borrows elements or mechanics of another game but presents them in a different way or expands/evolves the borrowed ideas.
Sonic owes a lot to Mario. But it's inspired by Mario, not a clone of Mario. A lot of these are Mario clones: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/10/04/the-13-most-shameless-super-mario-rip-offs-on-iphone
People hate Flappy Bird clones as they very rarely add anything to the genre. Sure they might add moving pillars, or extra birds to chose from, or even vague powerups. But they are not bringing anything new to the genre or to gaming as a whole, they're just riding on the coattails of a game that did evolve the game it borrowed from.
This is broadly true. Call of Duty was a game made to appeal to Battlefield's audience, and to play in a way that was very similar.
This is not true. They are in the same genre but Battlefield was NOT a clone of Quake. It using similar gameplay mechanics, but it is inspired by and evolving the mechanics rather than directly copying them. Take Doom vs Marathon. Marathon was a FPS just like Doom, and you shot guns and ran around corridors and killed enemies. But they were very different games. Marathon was inspired by Doom but it wasn't a clone of Doom.
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I know I said I was done but I just want to clear things up on one point. I understand exactly what your gripe is at the begining of this thread. I was just expanding in my comments of why I have a really hard time having any sympathy for your situation because your game is a clone and I think cloning is wrong and hurts app stores and developers overall. Doesn't make how amazon handle your situation right. I'm just amazed when people are doing things that people feel is wrong and then throw a for when they feel they are wronged.
It's like the burglar that trips and falls on a knife and sue's the homeowner of the house he's not suposed to be in for leaving that knife out and causing him to get hurt.
Ok so let's get this thread back to the original topic. Amazon is not being fair to @jigglybean and he's removing his games.
And...... GO!
@tenrdrmer @Armelline @Jeromy @lycettebros Until this crap happens to you, you will never understand the frustration of dealing with QA personnel who don't pay attention to original support tickets. If you do understand, then ranting about another Flappy clone is wasted breath (keyboard wear)
@jigglybean has valid frustrations regardless of the nature of the game he submitted. This can happen to anyone for any reason. Vomiting opinions about "flappy clone blah blah, post my two cents, avoid authentic sympathy or empathy" is hijacking a thread and pouring salt into an already deep wound.
Why can't we just enjoy the fact that people are using GS to better their skills at something? We're all pro developers (or tying to be) and we should support each other even when we disagree about things.
Lol it's kinda like marriage...ha
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This is a good warning about amazon. Them basically having a open contract to change rules by judgements is exactly what's in the contract.
That doesn't change the fact of what they are doing though. With any subject that suddenly becomes popular, this company is now shown to change policy, or like others have mentioned, have multiple judges with multiple opinions.
Either way, whether others dislike your game or not, I'm glad you made a firm decision on it. You could conform for potential more money or remove all games. But that's still ten times better than just griping or feeling shafted. So, glad you made a decision on it either way.
You are a developer of intellectual goods. It's your baby that's on the line.
Sidenote: @tenrdrmer , whenever I see your avatar I think of a rice ball with eyes.
Garrrr
@JDuaneJ I think if people are going to post on the forum they are going to be prepared for questions to be asked and alternative viewpoints. I know I am.
[Hey maybe someone needs to start a sympathy thread where you can only agree with a person and sympathise with their current frustration] [sorry total sarcastic response please forgive me]
I don't think anyone is trying to 'poor salt on the wound', I think they are trying to posit logical responses to why he is feeling the pain.
You are right we are all Pros. Pros know how to deal with rejection and injustice. They find solutions or make changes or compromise and @jigglybean has done that. I as a Pro may not react in the same way - in fact I definitely would not react the way he has and I am very comfortable to say why.
I believe my expression is advice and support. It may not be welcome or accepted - fair enough, he can reject it as he has.
I will also attempt to lighten the vibe when people get tetchy cos it really 'aint that big a deal in the context of life.
I may not agree with him or you but I wish him luck with his plans as I do you
BTW this crap has happened to me before not with Amazon but with Apple.