Can you re-engineer a store build GS game? GS Source Code Safety

FatFish

Hi all,

I have just recently been alerted to a developer who has completely cloned one of my latest games QuBe.

As you can see, screenshots alone, there are already similarities here. However, on downloading of the 'clone' I see that their game behaves like they managed to download the original source, swap out a few assets to make it look slightly different, and publish as their own released game!!

So this makes me ask the question: Is it possible to break apart a store release build of a Game Salad game, re-engineer it, to the point of it being like-for-like identical source code, in terms of behaviour, scenes, even bugs and quirks I know about.

Like I mentioned above; it is like they have got hold of the source, swapped a few graphics and republished.

Is this known about? How is this possible? The same developer has cloned our Tiny Goalie game also.

Any help or tips to prevent this from happening in future games would be really helpful, as it makes me a little weary using Game Salad again, knowing all your hard work can be duplicated like-for-like from a store build version of your game.

Thanks.

Armelline

It definitely used to be possible but I thought GS started obfuscating output. If you believe he's using your source, though, you need to get an infringement claim submitted to Apple ASAP.

gingagaming

This is sad to hear @FatFish‌ I do know that there is a way to do what you have said above, It was brought to my attension a while back from a client. Im not willing to discuss how its done here in the fear of it becoming public domain, I will however drop you an email telling how it is done. Unfortunetly, this is a GS security issue though and to my knowledge cannot be fixed developer end.

FatFish

So it turns out the project file is included in the App Store build of any Game Salad game!

How is this safe?! Anyone can lift days/weeks/months worth of peoples work.

Is there no way we can encrypted or obfuscated the source code during publishing?

Armelline

I suggest you tag some GS staffers in the thread so they see it when they get up!

FatFish

@Armelline said:
It definitely used to be possible but I thought GS started obfuscating output. If you believe he's using your source, though, you need to get an infringement claim submitted to Apple ASAP.

This I shame. But it definitely isn't being obfuscated.

I already have submitted a second dispute with the developer.

@gingagaming said:
This is sad to hear FatFish‌ I do know that there is a way to do what you have said above, It was brought to my attension a while back from a client. Im not willing to discuss how its done here in the fear of it becoming public domain, I will however drop you an email telling how it is done. Unfortunetly, this is a GS security issue though and to my knowledge cannot be fixed developer end.

I managed to work it out. It is crazy to see the source just sitting there open for anyone to pinch it and steel weeks/months of your dev time away from you in seconds. I don't think I'll be publishing any further GS games until this is looked at.

Armelline

I have to say I agree completely. Code obfuscation really should jump to the absolute top of their list and they should push an update out with it asap. It's potentially a platform killer. I thought they'd done this already, very distressing that they haven't

gingagaming

It was brought up back in may too..

http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/67851/how-to-protect-source-code-in-published-games#latest

FallingBoxStudios

Sorry to here about the clone @FatFish

Armelline

From the roadmap:

UPDATE: Some of this work is already complete and in the live version of the engine. We currently obfuscate your images, making any reverse engineered games unusable in Creator. More work is coming on this, but progress is being made!

Guess I mis-remembered what they'd said.

What worries me is this bit:

Coming Up Soon

>

We're not working on this stuff yet, but it's right around the corner:

>

Project Obfuscation

>

We've got a new feature on the schedule that helps better obfuscate your projects once released to the public. This will reduce the size of your published games and make them harder to reverse-engineer.

FatFish

@Armelline said:
I have to say I agree completely. Code obfuscation really should jump to the absolute top of their list and they should push an update out with it asap. It's potentially a platform killer. I thought they'd done this already, very distressing that they haven't

Yup you're soo right! It should be priority number one for the GS team. No one's GS games on the App Store are safe knowing this is present.

I don't like to cause hassle by bringing this up, but I am thinking of every developer here and that their hard work, like mine, can be lifted so easily with the most simplest of ways.

It's crazy no one discussed this in that @techana‌ thread. Not even the GS staff!

@FallingBoxStudios said:
Sorry to here about the clone FatFish

Thanks @FallingBoxStudios‌ Cloning isn't new on the App Stores, but I feel this is of more grater concern for us GS devs with live games on the store.

BazookaTime

Wow, this should probably be at the top of the list.

Tiny_Ideas

I suggest you remove any images or instructions on how it's possible to gain a Game salad project. No doubt there will be several people scrolling the forums who want to or will try this.

gingagaming

I agree with @Jeromy here 100% I think that a mod should pull rank here, and delete this thread with the promise that the same mod contacts GS staff and explains this issue. That way @FatFish‌ still has put his point out there but it wont be found on google.

Armelline

This has been a problem for years. It's probably the same guy doing it who's been at it the whole time. It's worrying that even after all this time nothing has really been done about it - either stopping him publishing his stolen games or stopping people being able to steal them in the first place.

FatFish

Agree this thread should be removed once it has been acknowledge, otherwise like the previous two threads (going back to 2010!) it will just get swept under the carpet.

No instructions have been mentioned. Just that it is shocking possible. It is extremely important that this does get addressed by any of the GS staff and becomes an important priority for the next release of either the client or the publisher side of GS.

birdboy

Wow... thank you for bringing this up @FatFish.
This thread should stay until we have a definitive answer from the GS Team.
I won't publish a thing with gamesalad until i know that this has been fixed.

unbeatenpixel

like this thread any thread should be remove after gs team answer us

sorry for @FatFish this is more important than all updates @BlackCloakGS

dgackey

The engineering team is looking at this now and I am in the process of identifying the user who published the game in question. His or her account will be terminated if, as it appears is the case, the game was stolen.

FatFish

Thank you @dgackey‌ that is good to hear!

BlackCloakGS

the engineering team and I are looking into solutions as dgackey said.

BBEnk

@FatFish‌

he also has this looks like Tiny Goalie someone even says in review just a clone of tiny goalie.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/footie/id906823321?mt=8

Armelline

Glad to hear this is being approached pro-actively! Looking forward to a happy resolution

JSproject

@dgackey said:
The engineering team is looking at this now and I am in the process of identifying the user who published the game in question. His or her account will be terminated if, as it appears is the case, the game was stolen.

It's great if you identify the user and bans him/her which will be well deserved but as you know that will only be "patch work" and not a solution to the actual problem. It may cause that person an annoyance (and some money if the person has pro membership) but what happens next for that person you think? He/she can just open up another account using vpn and then continue publish using that new account.

@BlackCloakGS "the engineering team and I are looking into solutions as dgackey said."
Great and by that I hope you mean actually solving the real problem by not openly including (or by obfuscating) the complete project with all the xml-files since it is the only real solution (as you know already).

You have done some great work already in the obfuscating area (image files) but all the logic is wide open for all GS projects for anyone that is moderately intelligent and that is for both IOS and Android.

In my opinion solving this issue should take just as high priority as fixing IOS8 compatibility (which from what I've read you've been doing a great job with) - basically #1 priority and not long down on the road maps to-do list as it currently is.

dgackey

@JSproject said:
It's great if you identify the user and bans him/her which will be well deserved but as you know that will only be "patch work" and not a solution to the actual problem. It may cause that person an annoyance (and some money if the person has pro membership) but what happens next for that person you think? He/she can just open up another account using vpn and then continue publish using that new account.

The individual in question does have a pro membership, and we will be banning them and recording their email and IP addresses. They will lose access to their game portfolio and it should generally be kind of a pain for them to "Pro Up" and republish everything, which is the primary goal.

We're going to address this permanently with an engineering solution. @BlackCloakGS‌ and @adent42‌ are working on it now.

JSproject

@dgackey That is great news, thank you! (thanks from the whole community I'm sure... well maybe excluding at least one specific person

CodeWizard

So, it looks like a fix for this will be implemented by EOB Monday. We'll push to get it out as a hotfix to 11.1. Can't get much more top-priority than this!

FallingBoxStudios

@dgackey @CodeWizard‌ That's great to hear

Armelline

@CodeWizard said:
So, it looks like a fix for this will be implemented by EOB Monday. We'll push to get it out as a hotfix to 11.1. Can't get much more top-priority than this!

Love it! A quick response to something like this doesn't just reassure on this issue, but on things in general

JSproject

@CodeWizard said:
So, it looks like a fix for this will be implemented by EOB Monday. We'll push to get it out as a hotfix to 11.1. Can't get much more top-priority than this!

Awesome!

birdboy

Fantastic! Thank you for the quick reaction!