Snowman Skipping - Ginga Gaming's Xmas Release 2014

gingagaming

Hi guys, so I got round to finishing my Xmas release this weekend so here it is!

Snowman skipping is based on my Retro Jump template I made for the Gamesalad Game Jam. I have also had some custom 8 Bit Frozen tracks made for the game which any child should love!

Anyhow, I hope you guys like it and Merry Xmas!

Download links:

Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gingagaming.snowmanskipping

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QQFDGRW

itunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/snowman-skipping/id949439886?ls=1&mt=8 (under review)

Braydon_SFX

Wow! I really like the smooth animation you have in there. Best of luck!

jamie_c

I like the art style, it has a claymation feel to it.

unbeatenpixel

Animation looks good.after game over,can monster walk faster?this way is better for user experience.

good luck.

Socks

Lol ! The animation is really good, great little character, the game looks fun too

P.S the copyright on music from Frozen is held by the publishers !

gyroscope

@gingagaming Agreed, excellent animation there - best of luck with it. :-)

Did you animate it yourself using stop motion to get your anim.frames?

gingagaming

Thanks @Braydon_SFX‌ @jamie_c‌ @onelasttime‌ @Socks‌ @gyroscope‌

@Socks said:
P.S the copyright on music from Frozen is held by the publishers !

Yeah, im not sure how ill get on with this one!

@gyroscope said:
Did you animate it yourself using stop motion to get your anim.frames?

I used some After effects footage and then exported the frames again with after effects as PNG files, I then animated them inside creator. I have loads more footage and tricks he does but the file size is silly. These few animations brought the game to a whopping 35MB alone! I didnt want to go any higher as it will restrict downloads I think.

jamie_c

Yeah, im not sure how ill get on with this one!

Well it's not like Frozen was very popular and certainly not the music from it... lol

Socks

@jamie_c said:
Well it's not like Frozen was very popular and certainly not the music from it... lol

. . . and the music is only published by that bit-player and smalltime outfit Disney, who are known for the their laissez-faire approach to legal protection of the their IP.

But seriously, it might slip under the radar if it gets through Apple's review stage, but if Disney ever became aware of it I think it's pretty much a guaranteed C&D (or one of the Disney assassins sets up on the roof opposite your bathroom window).

Socks

@gingagaming

A soft shadow under the main character might look good . . .

gingagaming

@jamie_c said:
Well it's not like Frozen was very popular and certainly not the music from it... lol

I hear you Jamie and@ socks

Maybe I have overlooked this and become blinded by it?

So in real terms, what the difference in me having a custom piece of 8 Bit music in my game VS someone on you tube singing the same song? and getting 100,000 hits? I dont want this to open into a massive debate, so please lets not! But what is the difference guys?

@Lovejoy‌ you seem to have an insightful knowledge on such subjects. Just how close am I to the wind here!

gingagaming

@Socks said:
A soft shadow under the main character might look good

That is exactly what its missing! Ill be right back!

Socks

@gingagaming said:
That is exactly what its missing! Ill be right back!

Also as the character's frame where he places a foot on the snow is known precisely (for example in a 20 frame loop the foot contact frames might be 5 and 16) you can use this info to spawn a foot print in the snow.

For example

When self.image = "WalkFrame.005" or "WalkFrame.016" then spawn footprint.

I did just that on an old project (I might try and dig it up if I can find it), it works really well, it would look even better in your project as he's walking on snow.

Socks

...

Ed_Perkin

What did you use for the 'clay' like animation character ? (by the way it looks awesome !:D

Socks

Here's a very quick and crude example of the snow-footprint thing . . .

Link: https://www.mediafire.com/?267295w7vh214j4

Socks

@gingagaming said:
So in real terms, what the difference in me having a custom piece of 8 Bit music in my game VS someone on you tube singing the same song? and getting 100,000 hits?

Well firstly - for clarity - the style of the production (8 bit or EDM or an acoustic ballad) is irrelevant, and also whether the music is 'custom' or not is also irrelevant (the word 'custom' has no meaning in IP law). So the question is what is the difference between someone's unauthorised cover version of a song on Youtube and someone's unauthorised use of a song in a game ?

I'd say thee was a fairly clear distinction, between a musician preforming a song and someone using a song, in a product, for commercial ends, a musician doesn't have to get permission to sing perform / record someone else's song - and although they might be liable for royalties / need a mechanical license, the royalties on something like 100,000 hits is so small that I doubt anyone would pursue it - but I'm sure if a cover version reached 10m hits, and the video had been monetized then you should expect a call from the song's publisher.

gingagaming

@Socks said:
Here's a very quick and crude example of the snow-footprint thing . . .

Your bang on the money here socks although im slightly more interested in the video capture software you used to extract the frames from the video! What software you using here?

@Socks said:
I'd say thee was a fairly clear distinction, between a musician preforming a song and someone using a song, in a product, for commercial ends, a musician doesn't have to get permission to sing perform / record someone else's song - and although they might be liable for royalties / need a mechanical license, the royalties on something like 100,000 hits is so small that I doubt anyone would pursue it - but I'm sure if a cover version reached 10m hits, and the video had been monetized then you should expect a call from the song's publisher.

So your statement starts off with saying their is a clear distinction, but it still went blury for me!

I totally get the commercal vs public, but there is no difference between a musician and an indie dev (from my eyes) So, whats the difference from 100,000 hits on youtube vs 100,000 free downloads on iTunes?

Is it because apps/games are seen as commercial industry and youtube is seen a public performance? Im not trying to legalise this, im just trying to get my head around the difference! Im most likley putting plan B in action tomorrow before I get too far in the itunes queue anyhow!

Socks

@gingagaming said:
Your bang on the money here socks although im slightly more interested in the video capture software you used to extract the frames from the video! What software you using here?

I just download the video from Youtube, stuck it in AE and turned the contrast up a little to lose the snow BG.

@gingagaming said:
So your statement starts off with saying their is a clear distinction, but it still went blury for me!

Sorry, it wasn't a great explanation, simply put the distinction is that one is a performance of a song (something you need no permission for), the other is the use of a song in a product, something you would need to licence.

@gingagaming said:
I totally get the commercal vs public

I'm not sure what 'public' means in this context or in a legal sense.

@gingagaming said:
but there is no difference between a musician and an indie dev (from my eyes).

One is performing a song, the other is distributing a product.

@gingagaming said:
So, whats the difference from 100,000 hits on youtube vs 100,000 free downloads on iTunes?

One is a performance, the other is a distributed product, the fact that it is given away for free has no bearing, I'd always argue that if you were going to use someone's IP then you might be better of selling it rather than giving it away - the stolen car analogy comes to mind, which would you rather happen on finding out your car has been stolen, that the person who took it sold it, or they simply gave it away, in the case of them having sold it you would be able to pursue them for the money that was paid to them for the car.

@gingagaming said:
Is it because apps/games are seen as commercial industry and youtube is seen a public performance?

I'm not 100% sure, the whole IP world is still adjusting to Youtube / Apps, these things are are very new in terms of music publishing (publishing is still based on antiquated notions of music origination and performance), I get my royalties from PRS here in the UK, and you are pretty much guaranteed that in each quarter's payout there will be a long newsletter to do with how they have finally reached some agreement with Youtube, only to have it all thrown back up in the air a few weeks later, this has been going on for years now. Commercial products are a little more clear cut, rather than trying to work out what is and what is not a performance on Youtube, with a product you have an actual thing, with actual units shifted and it more easily fits in with the existing model (although mechanical royalties are always going to be a guessing game).

@gingagaming said:
Im not trying to legalise this, im just trying to get my head around the difference! Im most likley putting plan B in action tomorrow before I get too far in the itunes queue anyhow!

Just change a couple of the chords, invert a couple, change a major to a minor 7th, then shove the melody around a little, and you will be fine, I'm not even sure you'd need to change the chords, just the melody, but it's not hard to swap a couple of chords around just to be safe . . . everyone does it, that's how band X 'borrows' a song from band Y without getting into trouble.

KillerPenguinStudios

@gingagaming‌, Liking it and the animations! Great job! In regards to the music, i believe you are fine because a custom 8 bit piece like you have would fall under being a parody.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Love it. Just my two cents, I wouldn't screw with Disney.

Socks

@KillerPenguinStudios said:
gingagaming‌, Liking it and the animations! Great job! In regards to the music, i believe you are fine because a custom 8 bit piece like you have would fall under being a parody.

For it to be a parody it would have to be making a comment or criticism on the original song or maybe making a comment on Disney or even the themes represented in the film Frozen, or any kind of comment or criticism at all. Any kind of fair use argument would fail in this context. There is no comment, criticism, news worthiness, nor is the song used here for research or any kind of scholarship . . . and so on . . . it's just a song in a game.

Socks

. . . Anyhow, we're getting off topic here, so back to the actual game ! . . . .

Lovejoy

@gingagaming‌

Since the song does not fall under fair use, id be weary about sampling it without a sample clearance. Even if you change a few chords and such and claim it sounds nothing like the original, it comes down to what the average user hears. The key is to make it as unrecognizable as possible, otherwise you open yourself up to some trouble.

Theres much more to it than that, ( @socks explained lots of it ) but i won't go into all the details. With that being said, you may be able to slip through the cracks and go unnoticed. But if this is the game that makes it big, get ready for a lawsuit for damages and whatever else they want to throw at you. Not worth the risk imo.

Great game by the way.

Malkovich

Congrats @gingagaming‌ for your game, the animations are just awesome. Very fun. I understand it's a mini christmas game, but i will be honest with you, i think your character and animations are pure gold and deserves better game mechanics. Please take it well. I wish you best of luck.

Thunder_Child

Wow. I watched that xmas video 3 times just to watch that awesome animation at the end. GREAT logo

gingagaming

Thank you all for your kind comments all
@Ed_Perkin‌
@KillerPenguinStudios‌
@The_Gamesalad_Guru‌
@Socks‌
@Lovejoy‌
@Malkovich‌
@Thunder_Child‌

@Lovejoy said:
gingagaming‌
You may be able to slip through the cracks and go unnoticed.

Whilst this sounds tempting, I think with all the advice on here, scrapping the whole frozen added theme is best. Lets face it, I knew I was sailing close to the wind, but do I really want to be on Disneys radar? I thought by making a version of my own, and having no references to frozen at all, I would be able to use it. But given the reaction of you guys, I guess not!

@Malkovich said:
I think your character and animations are pure gold and deserves better game mechanics.

I agree it does deserve better, you will be seeing more of him in the near future...

-Timo-

Looks really cool. I like the art style. Good luck with it.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Good choice remember Disney and Apple are joined at the hip and have a very close relationship. The Jobs family is the largest holder of Disney stock.

Braydon_SFX

@gingagaming‌ - great choice! I can't tell you how nice it is to see you taking the extra steps to do that. A lot of people ignore this advice, I assume its a pride thing. It just shows that you're not afraid to do the right thing and that you're open to suggestions. You're headed the right way, nicely done.

gingagaming

@Braydon_SFX said:
gingagaming‌ - great choice! I can't tell you how nice it is to see you taking the extra steps to do that. A lot of people ignore this advice, I assume its a pride thing. It just shows that you're not afraid to do the right thing and that you're open to suggestions. You're headed the right way, nicely done.

Sure, that the idea of posting isnt it! Music has already been replaced, foot prints added and few other sound effects added and back in apples queue! Thank you to all!