@Chunkypixels said:
If people are saying this is ok, then what's to stop GS from publishing our games for 99c a download on the Apple AppStore or on Google Play?
Nothing if it complies with the T & C. Read the T & C if they have violated them then you can take it further even sue them if they don't fix it and compensate you. I am not a lawyer but to me it reads like they do have the right to publish them as to charging for them I am not sure about that.
@colander ...so going by your logic, lets assume the following fictitious situation...
GameSalad, whilst in a bit of financial trouble, signs a publishing deal with a 3rd party, to publish to the App Store every decent game thats being uploaded and published through the publishing portal... they just change the icon or logo. Im talking games published as iOS apps, and they don't ask any permission.
To you... that would be completely fine... as, its apparently covered by this bit of text taken from the Terms and Services that everyone agrees to by using the software:
"You acknowledge and agree that GameSalad may use the Software licensed to you hereunder to develop its own games and that GameSalad reserves the right to independently develop and publish games that may be substantially similar to your Submission(s). To the extent that any game independently developed by GameSalad appears substantially similar to any of Submissions, you hereby waive any claims you may have against GameSalad arising therefrom."
...just because something is written a certain way... often in legalese to confuse... doesn't mean it would definitely stand in a court of law. Regardless though... its both a moral issue, and good business sense not to abuse your user base, even if your legal blurb seemingly gives you the ability to do so...
If everyone took every aspect of the terms and services into account, no one would ever use the software.
You said sue them, or demand compensation... I don't want either. I just want my games removed from Amazon in the form of published apps... Im fine with them remaining on the Arcade, or being used on HTML5 browser channels. I don't want GameSalad thinking that my agreeing to let them use my games for promotional purposes, means that i agreed to them publishing them however they want...
I'd like GameSalad to do the right thing, and respect my wish... as I feel Ive been misled.
@CodeWizard ... So... That's it? The long awaited 'official statement' is as much a joke as the whole affair. I am deeply disappointed (and know from past experience that you couldn't care less). To add the 'enjoy' to your post is like adding insult to injury. It's just another proof of the unprofessional way GS treats it's users. Shameful!
@Chunkypixels said: ..so going by your logic, lets assume the following fictitious situation...
It has nothing to do with my logic. I am just saying if you agreed to the T & C and if according to the T & C they can do it then you don't have any redress. Saying you didn't understand the consequences won't help you. However if they didn't comply with the T & C then you have a legitimate and legal right to take action.
I then said in my opinion after reading the T & C it looks like they do have the right to publish your game. I can remember them saying that they would be publishing them on Amazon. After hearing that and reading the T & C I decided I wanted nothing to do with it and didn't enter the competition. It is not logic, it is either in the T & C or it isn't. By this I mean if it goes far enough a judge will decide which still means it is in there or it isn't. I think it is (That doesn't mean I am right but it does seem pretty plain to me) so I don't see what you can do about it.
As to everyone crying foul I don't understand how you can when it was all apparent from the beginning. Of course this doesn't apply to the dev's whose games were not in the jam and were published without their permission. They have a very legitimate gripe and should be compensated in some way.
As for GS making money out of it I sure hope they did and the more the better I really want them to stay in business. I am concerned they don't have enough money as evidenced by this stuff up and others. If they were well resourced then they would have the systems and it would have been properly vetted before it was sent. I constantly see GS staff making comments in the forums about not having the time to do stuff and they will get to it soon. The staff do put in a mighty effort just look at BlackCloaks out of hours work to create joystick controls and that is just one example. They do seem to lack the cash to employee more people and implement the systems to prevent this type of thing and others from occurring.
I just read this whole thread this morning and some of the statements and accusations are over the top and hysterical. Sure they stuffed up and need to rectify the situation for those affected but to say they did it deliberately defies logic.
And here I can apply some logic, ask yourself could anyone with Dan's experience possibly think they could deliberately do this and get away with it? Anyone who is familiar and spent some time on the internet knows everyone is watching and something like this will be noticed and punished. Anyone who has spent some time coding knows to test and retest and skipping or shortcutting this step is perilous like uploading all the files to Amazon without checking it thoroughly to make sure it is doing what you intend it to do.
Because they are under resourced and pressured for time I can see how this happened and believe them when they say it was a mistake. I don't excuse it I just understand how it happened.
@Bad wolf Guy said:
If they had a financial issue then they shouldn't have been creating a new game engine and tool?
It is like the old saying caught between a rock and a hard place. If they don't do something to improve the software they will be dead in time anyway so even with limited resources they have to press ahead.
@lycettebros said:
My game was not posted on Amazon. Not sure if I should be happy or offended!
That is a good thing. The games don't run properly as it looks like they were uploaded using an automated process. And since the games are not running properly it makes the developers look bad in addition to GS. I am not sure how Amazon approved those games. You can't even play half of them ... Not good. You are lucky that your nice game is not published. I didn't enter these jams cos I didn't like the terms and I am glad I didn't. I feel sorry for the guys who did ...
Blimey!
One of my games is up there.. That terrible Space Panda game I made a few years ago.
The "problem" with the version that was uploaded to the GS Arcade is 2 fold
It was uploaded in the olden days, so no check box action for me.
I removed the touch controls and replaced them with keyboard controls....so that's going to work REALLY well on everyone's android devices.
ho hum...have un-ticked that checkbox now.
Not because I care too much about it being up there, but more because I care about being associated with a bad, non-working product.
Seems to be a lot of chuff up in that list. Test projects, bug examples etc too!
Comments
Another day gone by... I am still waiting...
Nothing if it complies with the T & C. Read the T & C if they have violated them then you can take it further even sue them if they don't fix it and compensate you. I am not a lawyer but to me it reads like they do have the right to publish them as to charging for them I am not sure about that.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
Here's our response. Enjoy!
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/76449/addressing-customer-issues-with-arcade-on-amazon-store
I just wanted to point out a few things I found on the amazon app-shop:
http://www.amazon.com/GameSalad-Jams-Hit-The-Balls/dp/B00RFP54CC/ref=sr_1_9?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1421957741&sr=1-9
This game uses the icon from Smash Hit and is intact an uploaded template from GSHelper.com
http://www.amazon.com/GameSalad-Jams-2048/dp/B00RBAJBFW/ref=sr_1_48?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1421960029&sr=1-48
Just WTF??! Look at those crappy screenshots
http://www.amazon.com/GameSalad-Jams-Olli-soundboard/dp/B00RFP66J2/ref=sr_1_49?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1421960029&sr=1-49
It isn't called screenshots when it is a distorted image repeated 4 times exept if this is the only kind of gameplay provided to the user???
I would estimate 80-90% of the games being sh*t and we all know that to do good advertising you need to publish rubbish. #promotionalporposes
@colander ...so going by your logic, lets assume the following fictitious situation...
GameSalad, whilst in a bit of financial trouble, signs a publishing deal with a 3rd party, to publish to the App Store every decent game thats being uploaded and published through the publishing portal... they just change the icon or logo. Im talking games published as iOS apps, and they don't ask any permission.
To you... that would be completely fine... as, its apparently covered by this bit of text taken from the Terms and Services that everyone agrees to by using the software:
"You acknowledge and agree that GameSalad may use the Software licensed to you hereunder to develop its own games and that GameSalad reserves the right to independently develop and publish games that may be substantially similar to your Submission(s). To the extent that any game independently developed by GameSalad appears substantially similar to any of Submissions, you hereby waive any claims you may have against GameSalad arising therefrom."
...just because something is written a certain way... often in legalese to confuse... doesn't mean it would definitely stand in a court of law. Regardless though... its both a moral issue, and good business sense not to abuse your user base, even if your legal blurb seemingly gives you the ability to do so...
If everyone took every aspect of the terms and services into account, no one would ever use the software.
You said sue them, or demand compensation... I don't want either. I just want my games removed from Amazon in the form of published apps... Im fine with them remaining on the Arcade, or being used on HTML5 browser channels. I don't want GameSalad thinking that my agreeing to let them use my games for promotional purposes, means that i agreed to them publishing them however they want...
I'd like GameSalad to do the right thing, and respect my wish... as I feel Ive been misled.
Sorry to say @CodeWizard but we didn't "enjoy" the response
@CodeWizard ... So... That's it? The long awaited 'official statement' is as much a joke as the whole affair. I am deeply disappointed (and know from past experience that you couldn't care less). To add the 'enjoy' to your post is like adding insult to injury. It's just another proof of the unprofessional way GS treats it's users. Shameful!
Here's my response:
http://2dgameartforprogrammers.blogspot.com/2015/01/wtf-is-gamesalad-thinking.html
(So far ENJOYED by 3.000 visitors to my blog and another 10k via google+)
It has nothing to do with my logic. I am just saying if you agreed to the T & C and if according to the T & C they can do it then you don't have any redress. Saying you didn't understand the consequences won't help you. However if they didn't comply with the T & C then you have a legitimate and legal right to take action.
I then said in my opinion after reading the T & C it looks like they do have the right to publish your game. I can remember them saying that they would be publishing them on Amazon. After hearing that and reading the T & C I decided I wanted nothing to do with it and didn't enter the competition. It is not logic, it is either in the T & C or it isn't. By this I mean if it goes far enough a judge will decide which still means it is in there or it isn't. I think it is (That doesn't mean I am right but it does seem pretty plain to me) so I don't see what you can do about it.
As to everyone crying foul I don't understand how you can when it was all apparent from the beginning. Of course this doesn't apply to the dev's whose games were not in the jam and were published without their permission. They have a very legitimate gripe and should be compensated in some way.
As for GS making money out of it I sure hope they did and the more the better I really want them to stay in business. I am concerned they don't have enough money as evidenced by this stuff up and others. If they were well resourced then they would have the systems and it would have been properly vetted before it was sent. I constantly see GS staff making comments in the forums about not having the time to do stuff and they will get to it soon. The staff do put in a mighty effort just look at BlackCloaks out of hours work to create joystick controls and that is just one example. They do seem to lack the cash to employee more people and implement the systems to prevent this type of thing and others from occurring.
I just read this whole thread this morning and some of the statements and accusations are over the top and hysterical. Sure they stuffed up and need to rectify the situation for those affected but to say they did it deliberately defies logic.
And here I can apply some logic, ask yourself could anyone with Dan's experience possibly think they could deliberately do this and get away with it? Anyone who is familiar and spent some time on the internet knows everyone is watching and something like this will be noticed and punished. Anyone who has spent some time coding knows to test and retest and skipping or shortcutting this step is perilous like uploading all the files to Amazon without checking it thoroughly to make sure it is doing what you intend it to do.
Because they are under resourced and pressured for time I can see how this happened and believe them when they say it was a mistake. I don't excuse it I just understand how it happened.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
If they had a financial issue then they shouldn't have been creating a new game engine and tool?
I just robbed a bank, when the police caught up to me i just told him it was by mistake. Do you think he believed me?
People do things all the time thinking they can get away with it. If you think otherwise then you are lost.
Edit: In the world of business, backstabbing for gain is very common.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
>
Agreed but not in this instance it would be just too stupid to believe. Dan doesn't strike me as stupid or dishonest.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
It is like the old saying caught between a rock and a hard place. If they don't do something to improve the software they will be dead in time anyway so even with limited resources they have to press ahead.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
My game was not posted on Amazon. Not sure if I should be happy or offended!
http://gsrca.de/73444
@lycettebros lol
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
That is a good thing. The games don't run properly as it looks like they were uploaded using an automated process. And since the games are not running properly it makes the developers look bad in addition to GS. I am not sure how Amazon approved those games. You can't even play half of them ... Not good. You are lucky that your nice game is not published. I didn't enter these jams cos I didn't like the terms and I am glad I didn't. I feel sorry for the guys who did ...
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
Blimey!
One of my games is up there.. That terrible Space Panda game I made a few years ago.
The "problem" with the version that was uploaded to the GS Arcade is 2 fold
ho hum...have un-ticked that checkbox now.
Not because I care too much about it being up there, but more because I care about being associated with a bad, non-working product.
Seems to be a lot of chuff up in that list. Test projects, bug examples etc too!
I'm just glad I've never published my games to the arcade.