"Skyward" dicussion
MattButlerStudios
Member Posts: 486
SkyWard
I don't know if you guys have seen the newest game released by ketchapp (I think another company made the game and published on their account) but this thing is a real beauty! Just playing the game makes me drool over the graphics and the extremely polished look and feel. I just wanted to make this thread to discuss this game and if something like this could be possible in Gamesalad. It was probably made in Unity, but something similar might be achievable in Gamesalad. Regardless, I just think it would be nice to discuss the game and how it is an example of a true piece of art!
Comments
It's a pretty shameless and cynical ripoff of Monument Valley.
Yes, I think most of it would be possible.
That's what I was going to say , Socks beat me to it. Monument is a really thought out and beautiful game, graphics and mechanics are spot on. Take a look at that one.
@Socks @floatingwoo I have most certainly heard of monument valley. I know that it looks a lot like it, but do you think that they could have ripped them off that quick? Maybe it was just a coincidence..
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Really nice video of the behind the scenes making of Monument here....
Quite a team they put together to do it.
Quite a few people seem to think so.
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April 3, 2014 - Jan 1025 = 9-10 months.
I remember when Bouncy bit came out in February 2014! We got a ton of attention and downloads. Then Ketchapp released Don't Touch The Spikes in July 2014. This is what they do.
Now they have a ton of fans so they can keep doing it and they continue to succeed. I would have applauded Skyward had they at least used a different art style. I mean, it's really the least they could have done.
Monument Valley is one of my favorite mobile games of all time. It's truly a piece of art. Its sad to see a clone from a big developer and succeed.
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Yep, like I say, cynical opportunists happy to steal other people's hard work.
Discussions like these always leave a weird taste in my mouth because I can't stand the double standards some people seem to maintain.
I know this developer brought himself into a disadvantage by seemingly specializing on cloning certain aspects of recent hit games and I really don't like this myself. For me making games is a way to express myself and not just a money making tool.
I haven't played his other game which seems to be a clone of Threes but I know the story behind Threes and to a certain degree I totally get the anger that was directed at the developer for cloning it (I read the clone was making more money than the original game while looking worse and being a worse game which is ridiculous).
But calling SkyWard a rip-off or a exact clone is wrong. This game has nothing to do with Monument Valley (which is a fantastic game) besides the art style. It's a technically well made game and I haven't seen its gameplay elsewhere. Yes i know - Monument Valley has similar flat shaded low poly structures and a similar background gradient and overall a SkyWard screenshot can look like it was a (worse looking) part of Monument Valley. But seriously, please don't start to call art styles a rip-off of something. I swear if you give me some time I'll find drawings that look like stuff out of Monument Valley that were made long before this game. Monument Valley has these really great looking set pieces while SkyWard really isn't more than some procedural generated paths.
Of course SkyWard looks like it does because of the popularity and critical acclaim that Monument Valley has earned but that's were it stops. If it had the same gameplay, a similar structure ... that's were I'd join in and call it a rip-off.
What really sets me off is that a lot of people who are fast with calling games a rip-off don't hesitate to put out templates which are 1:1 clones of popular games on the AppStore (of course only for learning purposes, yadda yadda) Or they use characters that look nearly identical to existing ones to the point were the only difference are some colors. Or they release games with mechanics that are nearly identical to existing games.
So yeah, in my opinion discussing stuff like this is absolutely necessary but people shouldn't be so fast with these rip-off calls (some without even trying the game). And if they don't like clones they should take a good look at themselves.
Does Ketchapp develop these games themselves? or do indies making clones reach out to them specifically for publishing? Unfortunately for this reason alone, I can only see myself making a simple, addictive game if it's just for cross-promotion purposes. I wonder why there haven't been any truly successful Angry Birds or Cut the Rope clones, yet variations of the "match 3" candies, fruits, and bubble shooting games seem to dominate the charts 24/7
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The art style may be similar, but this is a whole new game that plays nothing like MV. This is a game of its own.
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That's kind of the point of the thread, if you read the OP the main theme is the look of the game - "a real beauty" . . . "drool over the graphics" . . . "extremely polished look and feel" . . . "a true piece of art!" . . . etc
And that look (or art style) is a direct ripoff of Monument Valley.
"And that look (or art style) is a direct ripoff of Monument Valley."
Good point.
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I've been researching Ketchapp extensively the last few weeks. They hardly make the games themselves. It's just two french dudes, really. They contract out games they want to clone to dev shops in Vietnam.
Love them or hate them they are easily 30MM DAU and likely grossing 10-15 million in ad revenue a month.
Reminds me of my days working in the t-shirt printing industry. The Gaming industry is just the wild west all over again.
I have actually talked with Michel and Antoine. They are great guys running a publishing company. This game was made by Aya Studios and published by Ketchapp.
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But they do know what they are publishing don't they ? I mean they don't just take whatever is given to them, without even looking at it, and then - with closed eyes and their fingers in their ears - they upload it to the App Store ?
If it's obvious that a game is a blatant rip off like Don't Touch The Spikes ( which is basically @DeadlySeriousMedia 's Bouncy Bit ) and it has gone through them then they are responsible for enabling that process as much as the people coding it.
For sure, i wasn't disagreeing with the art ripoff. Was answering the question made by @supafly129 about who made the game. I forgot to quote it.
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@metamet million ad revenue for a month, is it true? it is a lot and can kick off some grossing game.
I suppose I was taking issue with them being 'great guys' !
It might be just me, but I really struggle with this part of the mobile game world, like floating woo said, it's like the wild west, there doesn't seem to be any rules when it comes to stealing work from others, at one end you have people like Ketchapp and at the other you have the template makers and the cloners . . . . it's hard enough to come up with a great idea in the first place, then to produce it, polish it, get the code and the design and the sound and the music working, as well as all the peripheral stuff needed for delivery like a great name, icons, logos, splash screen, menu pages and so on . . . but to know that regardless of how long you spend on your project, how many late nights and missed holidays, how many enthusiatic and excited phone calls with your design partner/musician/illustrator (etc), or regardless of whether you've even given up your job to go full time with game making . . . that when you deliver your pride and joy, the product of your creativity, sweat and tears, that vultures are waiting to pick it apart, steal your ideas, design, game mechanic and use their marketing muscle (money) to cannibalise sales that should have rightfully been yours.
It's all pretty depressing stuff, you only have to look at DeadlySeriousMedia's case to see that people like Ketchapp are little better than thieves.
@Socks Lets not forget that MV is pretty much this:
Mixed with art style from Famous artist M.C. Escher
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I was too curious about how ketchapp releases games so quickly. As mentioned earlier, they usually just publish now and don't even develop games for themselves. Since they have such a huge following, almost every single one of the games that they publish hits the top charts almost instantaneously. Most of these games are just simple concepts that would not have necessarily have gotten huge without ketchapp's influence. I guess it's just something to deal with and it should make us want to work that much harder!
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I guess to play devil's advocate, it's much more upsetting seeing 2048 and Don't Touch The Spikes at the top of the charts because essentially everything was copied except for the colors and characters, whereas after playing Skyward you can definitely see the difference in gameplay and I think art style is something that's generally very difficult to be completely original with. Also, MV still being a Paid App imo maintains its premium "real deal" appearance.
In general, I think original, exceptionally-designed titles will usually get the respect they deserve and will continue to prevail in their own lane regardless of clones. It seems as though Monument Valley and it's creators still gain a ton of positive publicity, and I would assume there will always be a crowd that appreciates the "originals".
I guess the question is, to what degree can Apple prevent clones without allowing a developer to monopolize the store? In fact, I've been working on games that I thought were totally originally only to find unbelievably similar concepts already exist, and to ensure I make my game(s) more unique and appealing, I would play and read their reviews to learn from their accomplishments and mistakes. It's kind of like with Facebook and Myspace, where the overall concept was the same, only Facebook's execution was much better.
All in all, I think our only solution is to just make a game you yourself are proud of and if it reaches the top, leverage that for your next idea and keep rolling with the punches because chances are the players will be loyal in one way or another. Making a more complex and detailed of a game would certainly minimize the amount of clones you'd compete against. I'm guilty of joining the Flappy Bird wagon for my first game because, well, it was so easy
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Agreed, the conversations tend to be polarising, and examples of companies copying other people's work all tend to get thrown in the same category, but of course there are degrees of copying, some more blatant and egregious than others, I guess I just hate the whole culture of copying within games and can't really be bothered with attempting to tease apart how awful one party is compared to another when they are all - to a greater or lesser degree - stealing other people's creative ideas, but your point is valid in this case.
Yep, work harder so the cloners have better material to copy
But you are right, this just something people have to deal with, unless someone is going to start a campaign to bring IP laws into line with 21C technology.
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