Here are some thoughts and suggestions (and I'm sure you've already thought of a lot of these yourself!):
Make sure you start off relatively easy. The first level should last about 45 seconds and have just a few mines in there. The first mine should appear about 12 seconds in. This gives the player a little time to experiment with the controls on their first try without being in immediate danger.
Second level should be more mines, 45 seconds long again. Introduce one battleship to this level.
Then maybe have your 3D view with the gun - introduce just two enemies here - a ship and the sub.
Then back to the mines. 1 Minute long. Have more battleships in this section. Towards the end introduce 1 helicopter to the mix.
Then back to the 3D gun. Add helicopters to the enemies already there.
Then back to the mines 1 minute 20 seconds long - but with added helicopters.
You get the idea - it introduces enemies one at a time, then gives you more to deal with as you go on, and increases the time of each level.
Other thoughts:
Helicopter missiles. Use Interpolate to make them shrink in size over time. This will give the illusion of 'falling' from the 'copter high up to the sea far below!
There needs to be a way to destroy the helicopter missiles and/or the helicopters themselves. It seems very difficult to avoid them.
I love the helicopter shadow btw, but this makes me think that the copter and shadow are all one sprite. You'll have to make a new actor, call it 'heli-hit-box' and constrain it within the image to where the helicopter actually is. Then when this box is hit, the chopper explodes.
Nice explosions too btw!
So you need a weapon - perhaps surface to air missiles launched from the back of the sub?
Alternatively, add a smart bomb. Limit the amount the player can have. Smartbombs are easy to implement. Essentially have a blank, transparent actor cover the whole screen.
Have a smart bomb button that says 'if pressed, then for .5 seconds smartbomb=true - otherwise smartbomb=false'
Then have a rule in each enemy that if smartbomb=true and enemy colides with blank transparent actor, destroy enemy.
You may want to vary the environment too. First three levels as described above. Then the next two at night - put a blank square over the screen - colour it light green and add some transparency - should give a nice 'night vision' view (make sure it's a the very top of the scene layers)
The 3D helicopters look too much like pasted on animations in my opinion. They just look out of place. Nice 3D scaling though!
I hope this helps a bit. Take it all with a pinch of salt of course! You're making your own game after all, not mine!
Awesome post QS! I'm thrilled that you're taking the time to give me feedback that I value so much. All great suggestions. I especially agree with your opinion re. bringing in enemies on each level and I've been awake at night thinking how best to balance gameplay difficulty and level design. After reading your post, I'm much more confident about my next step in this venture.
I'm often reticent to offer advice like this. I fear I might come across as patronising sometimes, and I really don't intend that at all. I'm glad it's helped in some small way!
In general, you can think of level design and 'build up' in games like this, or in platformers, and most genres really as 'teaching the player about the game as he's playing'.
I don't mean 'give them a tutorial'! I mean, let the player play. Let him get used to the controls. Then introduce one enemy, that on its own isn't going to massively challenge the player but will teach him how that enemy behaves.
The helicopter is a good example. On its own, one helicopter can be observed, assessed and dealt with relatively easily. The player now knows that a helicopter will:
1. Move faster than a ship. 2. Will fire one, maybe two missiles. 3. Will move offscreen having fired its missiles.
etc etc
The next time the player encounters a helicopter, they'll be familiar with it. Adding more helicopters, therefore, shouldn't overwhelm the player. He'll know how to deal with one, and the challenge arises in juggling several helicopters at once, or one after another.
I'm often reticent to offer advice like this. I fear I might come across as patronising sometimes, and I really don't intend that at all
Not at all! Any dev should consider themselves lucky to receive kind and constructive criticism such as yours. Bravo and I look forward to corresponding in future.
BTW, any suggestion on the following: used interpolate on heli missiles for act width/height but collision now isn't working.
madpoet said: BTW, any suggestion on the following: used interpolate on heli missiles for act width/height but collision now isn't working.
Cheers!
Hmmmm... there may be an issue with interpolate and collision detection. I hope not, I was planning on using it myself. Try searching the forums, I seem to vaguely remember someone posting about that...
You may have to end up just using 'change attribute' behaviours with a timer to essentially do the same thing.
Alternatively, if you can, constrain an invisible hit box to the missile that doesn't scale. This not only makes it easier to hit the missile (as it doesn't get smaller) but it still let you use the cool looking effect.
Unfortunately, lots of constraints will be a drain on cpu cycles...
Howdy! Just posted an update video of my game progress. Few more levels with sea creatures and a SAM power up that kills helicopters. With 4 levels and 3 variations of the levels, I have about 12 levels almost complete and I'm thinking of ending with 15 levels. Does anyone feel that 15 levels is terribly low? I'm thinking of adding more levels in future updates providing sales are adequate.
Would love to hear constructive criticism....Cheers all!
Firstly, I'd like to say that your 'dive' mechanic is excellent. I was wondering when I first saw your game why a submarine would be 'surfaced' all the time.
You've addressed the issue without anyone even bringing it up! On top of that, you've made it a strategic choice. From what I can glean from your latest vid, diving makes you invulnerable to attack, yet depletes your energy. Nicely done, sir!
Another thing I noticed and liked were the bridges. Perhaps consider using the dive mechanic here? i.e.:
You will take damage if you pass under a bridge while surfaced, therefore forcing you to dive OR destroy the bridge (with multiple shots).
Could be fun!
I like the SAM stuff too, though to be honest, the graphics for the SAM missiles look a little out of place. Indeed, in general, the look of the game has some inconsistencies (I mentioned the 3D helicopters in an earlier post, for example). Is there anything you can do to improve this general issue, or will it stay 'as is'?
Talking of the SAMS, it might be good to destroy the missile (spawning a small explosion) when it hits the helicopter. Just to show it's fulfilled its purpose and has had an impact. Cause and effect etc
The 3D level looks very nice - I like the ocean, and I see you've added the ability to move your sub. Could you incorporate the diving mechanic here as well, perhaps?
I'd like to finally address your query as to how many levels are enough.
I think, looking at the poll, there's no real definitive answer. I think the 12 you have will be enough, and 15 definitely so.
You've got some good variation in there with the different views.
My own upcoming game has 16 levels, spread across seven different environments, though this is mainly because I'm telling a story with it. My core mechanic stays the same throughout, with some good variation I think, and there's a rather clever scoring mechanic in it too which will aid in the replayability of the game.
How does the scoring work in your game?
Here's an idea. If you're submerged, can you still shoot? If so, make any hits count for half the amount of points as those when you're surfaced.
You can do this by making a 'score multiplier' variable - make it an integer. When you're submerged make 'scoremultiplier=1'. When surfaced, make it =2.
Then, whenever a helicopter, or ship, or whatever gets hit, change the score to 'score + (100*scoremultiplier).
I think this could add more depth (boom boom!) to the game, where playing it safe and submerging whenever you can will see you through the levels, but will lead to a lower score in the end.
Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now! Good luck with it all, and again, take what I say with a pinch of salt!
Hey QS, How u doing and thx for posting! I was getting antsy thinking no one was going to respond, and there you were with your longest post yet...:)
Diving is good but I'm going to re-work the rule. As it stands, there are two actors which turn off/on and I could optimize by just have a change image rule for efficiency sake.
Sub passes under bridge just for now because it's easy to test other parts but you are SPOT ON QS, the sub has to dive to get through. Otherwise, minus 5 energy units.
Shooting bridges?...Nice idea QS but I'm noticing lag when user pushes fwd and destroying parts of the bridge (while being visually fun) may grind on cpu....Will reflect on that.
SAMs, I agree, they need work. Is it the SAM button, static power up or the actual SAM that blasts from the sub? Will definitely add collision act when hitting heli.
Inconsistencies, I agree but I need clarification re. the 3d helicopters. Is the problem that they don't change rotation wise and therefore look like 2d sprites that only change size? If yes, I'm finding I can't use alot of png frames in a sequence w/o reaching unsatisfactory frame rates. if I were to vary the perspective and thus use more png's, things start to crawl even when using the power of 2 and png 8's with like 10 colors.
Scoring, good suggestion....I think I'll do that.
Any who, glad to hear frm you and why not tell me more about your game...Sounds interesting. The story aspect (you mentioned) can be a great advantage to use and differentiate your self from the other games....Cheers! BTW, do you work for GS?
madpoet said: Diving is good but I'm going to re-work the rule. As it stands, there are two actors which turn off/on and I could optimize by just have a change image rule for efficiency sake.
Yep, that should work. I sometimes like to use different actors for different states. Not ideal or efficient but it seems to do the trick!
Sub passes under bridge just for now because it's easy to test other parts but you are SPOT ON QS, the sub has to dive to get through. Otherwise, minus 5 energy units.
Shooting bridges?...Nice idea QS but I'm noticing lag when user pushes fwd and destroying parts of the bridge (while being visually fun) may grind on cpu....Will reflect on that.
Fair enough mate, BUT. If you penalise the player for not diving you essentially make it necessary for them to dive, or lose energy units.
Giving them the option to destroy bridges means that if they've dived too much before, they can still get through. I think the key word is 'option' here, but try it out and see if it affects your framerate.
I'm a little confused by the energy bar, actually. I know it's a work in progress, and you may not have 'player destroyed' rules activated yet, so I'm assuming that if energy = 0 then game over or lose a life?
If so, I'd recommend trying to make the bridges destructible - it will give the user a lifeline to be able to get through that section without taking hits on their energy.
Also, how many units of energy does diving take up? It should be less than the five units you mention otherwise there's no advantage to going under a bridge rather than through it!
As to your art queries... I can't really quantify that part. I'm not an artist! It just looks weird in places. The SAMS look pasted on, the helicopters unrealistic.. I can't tell you how to improve those aspects as I wouldn't know how! Sorry!
Keep it up fella!
QS
And no, I don't work for GS - I just type real fast, hence the huge number of posts
madpoet
Member Posts: 59
Comments
Here are some thoughts and suggestions (and I'm sure you've already thought of a lot of these yourself!):
Make sure you start off relatively easy. The first level should last about 45 seconds and have just a few mines in there. The first mine should appear about 12 seconds in. This gives the player a little time to experiment with the controls on their first try without being in immediate danger.
Second level should be more mines, 45 seconds long again. Introduce one battleship to this level.
Then maybe have your 3D view with the gun - introduce just two enemies here - a ship and the sub.
Then back to the mines. 1 Minute long. Have more battleships in this section. Towards the end introduce 1 helicopter to the mix.
Then back to the 3D gun. Add helicopters to the enemies already there.
Then back to the mines 1 minute 20 seconds long - but with added helicopters.
You get the idea - it introduces enemies one at a time, then gives you more to deal with as you go on, and increases the time of each level.
Other thoughts:
Helicopter missiles. Use Interpolate to make them shrink in size over time. This will give the illusion of 'falling' from the 'copter high up to the sea far below!
There needs to be a way to destroy the helicopter missiles and/or the helicopters themselves. It seems very difficult to avoid them.
I love the helicopter shadow btw, but this makes me think that the copter and shadow are all one sprite. You'll have to make a new actor, call it 'heli-hit-box' and constrain it within the image to where the helicopter actually is. Then when this box is hit, the chopper explodes.
Nice explosions too btw!
So you need a weapon - perhaps surface to air missiles launched from the back of the sub?
Alternatively, add a smart bomb. Limit the amount the player can have. Smartbombs are easy to implement. Essentially have a blank, transparent actor cover the whole screen.
Have a smart bomb button that says 'if pressed, then for .5 seconds smartbomb=true - otherwise smartbomb=false'
Then have a rule in each enemy that if smartbomb=true and enemy colides with blank transparent actor, destroy enemy.
You may want to vary the environment too. First three levels as described above. Then the next two at night - put a blank square over the screen - colour it light green and add some transparency - should give a nice 'night vision' view (make sure it's a the very top of the scene layers)
The 3D helicopters look too much like pasted on animations in my opinion. They just look out of place. Nice 3D scaling though!
I hope this helps a bit. Take it all with a pinch of salt of course! You're making your own game after all, not mine!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I'm thrilled that you're taking the time to give me feedback that I value so much.
All great suggestions. I especially agree with your opinion re. bringing in enemies on each level and I've been awake at night thinking how best to balance gameplay difficulty and level design.
After reading your post, I'm much more confident about my next step in this venture.
Cheers!
I'm often reticent to offer advice like this. I fear I might come across as patronising sometimes, and I really don't intend that at all. I'm glad it's helped in some small way!
In general, you can think of level design and 'build up' in games like this, or in platformers, and most genres really as 'teaching the player about the game as he's playing'.
I don't mean 'give them a tutorial'! I mean, let the player play. Let him get used to the controls. Then introduce one enemy, that on its own isn't going to massively challenge the player but will teach him how that enemy behaves.
The helicopter is a good example. On its own, one helicopter can be observed, assessed and dealt with relatively easily. The player now knows that a helicopter will:
1. Move faster than a ship.
2. Will fire one, maybe two missiles.
3. Will move offscreen having fired its missiles.
etc etc
The next time the player encounters a helicopter, they'll be familiar with it. Adding more helicopters, therefore, shouldn't overwhelm the player. He'll know how to deal with one, and the challenge arises in juggling several helicopters at once, or one after another.
It's the kind of stuff Mario games do
Anyway, I look forward to more updates!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Not at all!
Any dev should consider themselves lucky to receive kind and constructive criticism such
as yours. Bravo and I look forward to corresponding in future.
BTW, any suggestion on the following:
used interpolate on heli missiles for act width/height but collision now isn't working.
Cheers!
You may have to end up just using 'change attribute' behaviours with a timer to essentially do the same thing.
Alternatively, if you can, constrain an invisible hit box to the missile that doesn't scale. This not only makes it easier to hit the missile (as it doesn't get smaller) but it still let you use the cool looking effect.
Unfortunately, lots of constraints will be a drain on cpu cycles...
Perhaps experiment there?
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
p
Just posted an update video of my game progress. Few more levels with sea creatures and
a SAM power up that kills helicopters. With 4 levels and 3 variations of the levels, I have about
12 levels almost complete and I'm thinking of ending with 15 levels. Does anyone feel that 15 levels is terribly low? I'm thinking of adding more levels in future updates providing sales
are adequate.
Would love to hear constructive criticism....Cheers all!
h264
http://www.magneticstudio.com/sub6.mov
iphone
http://www.magneticstudio.com/sub6b.mov
Firstly, I'd like to say that your 'dive' mechanic is excellent. I was wondering when I first saw your game why a submarine would be 'surfaced' all the time.
You've addressed the issue without anyone even bringing it up! On top of that, you've made it a strategic choice. From what I can glean from your latest vid, diving makes you invulnerable to attack, yet depletes your energy. Nicely done, sir!
Another thing I noticed and liked were the bridges. Perhaps consider using the dive mechanic here? i.e.:
You will take damage if you pass under a bridge while surfaced, therefore forcing you to dive OR destroy the bridge (with multiple shots).
Could be fun!
I like the SAM stuff too, though to be honest, the graphics for the SAM missiles look a little out of place. Indeed, in general, the look of the game has some inconsistencies (I mentioned the 3D helicopters in an earlier post, for example). Is there anything you can do to improve this general issue, or will it stay 'as is'?
Talking of the SAMS, it might be good to destroy the missile (spawning a small explosion) when it hits the helicopter. Just to show it's fulfilled its purpose and has had an impact. Cause and effect etc
The 3D level looks very nice - I like the ocean, and I see you've added the ability to move your sub.
Could you incorporate the diving mechanic here as well, perhaps?
I'd like to finally address your query as to how many levels are enough.
I think, looking at the poll, there's no real definitive answer. I think the 12 you have will be enough, and 15 definitely so.
You've got some good variation in there with the different views.
My own upcoming game has 16 levels, spread across seven different environments, though this is mainly because I'm telling a story with it. My core mechanic stays the same throughout, with some good variation I think, and there's a rather clever scoring mechanic in it too which will aid in the replayability of the game.
How does the scoring work in your game?
Here's an idea. If you're submerged, can you still shoot? If so, make any hits count for half the amount of points as those when you're surfaced.
You can do this by making a 'score multiplier' variable - make it an integer. When you're submerged make 'scoremultiplier=1'. When surfaced, make it =2.
Then, whenever a helicopter, or ship, or whatever gets hit, change the score to 'score + (100*scoremultiplier).
I think this could add more depth (boom boom!) to the game, where playing it safe and submerging whenever you can will see you through the levels, but will lead to a lower score in the end.
Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now! Good luck with it all, and again, take what I say with a pinch of salt!
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I was getting antsy thinking no one was going to respond, and there you were with your
longest post yet...:)
Diving is good but I'm going to re-work the rule. As it stands, there are two actors which turn off/on and I could optimize by just have a change image rule for efficiency sake.
Sub passes under bridge just for now because it's easy to test other parts but you are SPOT ON
QS, the sub has to dive to get through. Otherwise, minus 5 energy units.
Shooting bridges?...Nice idea QS but I'm noticing lag when user pushes fwd and destroying
parts of the bridge (while being visually fun) may grind on cpu....Will reflect on that.
SAMs, I agree, they need work. Is it the SAM button, static power up or the actual SAM that
blasts from the sub? Will definitely add collision act when hitting heli.
Inconsistencies, I agree but I need clarification re. the 3d helicopters. Is the problem that
they don't change rotation wise and therefore look like 2d sprites that only change size?
If yes, I'm finding I can't use alot of png frames in a sequence w/o reaching unsatisfactory frame rates. if I were to vary the perspective and thus use more png's, things start to crawl even when using the power of 2 and png 8's with like 10 colors.
Scoring, good suggestion....I think I'll do that.
Any who, glad to hear frm you and why not tell me more about your game...Sounds interesting. The story aspect (you mentioned) can be a great advantage to use and differentiate your self from the other games....Cheers!
BTW, do you work for GS?
Giving them the option to destroy bridges means that if they've dived too much before, they can still get through. I think the key word is 'option' here, but try it out and see if it affects your framerate.
I'm a little confused by the energy bar, actually. I know it's a work in progress, and you may not have 'player destroyed' rules activated yet, so I'm assuming that if energy = 0 then game over or lose a life?
If so, I'd recommend trying to make the bridges destructible - it will give the user a lifeline to be able to get through that section without taking hits on their energy.
Also, how many units of energy does diving take up? It should be less than the five units you mention otherwise there's no advantage to going under a bridge rather than through it!
As to your art queries... I can't really quantify that part. I'm not an artist! It just looks weird in places. The SAMS look pasted on, the helicopters unrealistic.. I can't tell you how to improve those aspects as I wouldn't know how! Sorry!
Keep it up fella!
QS
And no, I don't work for GS - I just type real fast, hence the huge number of posts
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io