Hello from a n00b. LOL
4All2Play
Member Posts: 11
Hi everyone.
I figured I'd write a quick introduction, and say howdy to the group. :-)
When I say that I'm a newbie, I'm not lying. I've NEVER programmed before in my entire life, umm, unless you count the code I wrote back in 1984, when I was 11, for the Apple IIe? I, urr, somehow think that doesn't count though. hehe
As someone who has never developed games before, it's a bit strange that I'm here. The thing is... I was born blind, or visually impaired, or with crappy vision, or pick your own PC or non-PC terminology. LOL It comes down to the fact that I can't see very well, and, on both IOS and Android, I'm a VoiceOver/Talkback user. What does that have to do with games? Well, I'm hoping to be able to learn to develop VoiceOver/Talkback accessible card games.
I grew up playing cards with my family, games like Spades, Setback, 3/13 (Which is a version of Five Crowns but played with regular playing cards,) Rook, Phase 10, Skip-Bo, and oh so many others! I come from a big family, and we'd have the kids' table and the adults' table, both playing the same game. The kids' team and the adults' team who won the best 2 out of 3 games at their table would then play one another for bragging rights, with kids and adults picking sides and cheering for their teams! LOL
All the card games that I mentioned have versions out for IOS and/or Android, but none of them are VoiceOver or TalkBack accessible! I want to write versions of these games, with the weird variations that I grew up with included, and that are available for both the sighted and the "not-so-sighted" to play. :-)
I'd really appreciate any help that those of you with more, and that equals any, LOL experience are willing to offer. It may be that, as a total novice, this is something that I'm just no good at, but I at least wanted to try. :-)
So, hello everyone, and I look forward to what I learn here, and to meeting new people. :-)
Amy
Comments
Im doubting you can use that shell function with GS. I hooe you find a way to make your app dream come true.
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Yeah, that's part of what I'm looking at. I'm what they call a low partial, which pretty much means that I have some vision; it just ain't that great. GRIN I use VoiceOver and TalkBack on my phone/tablets, but I use a program called ZoomText on my PC, which makes things bigger, LOTS bigger, LOL so that I can see them. I can drag and drop, am comfortable using the mouse, all because of ZoomText, and because it's something I've done, using such high magnification, since the 80's. (Wow, everytime I say that, I'm telling my age. LOL Maybe I should start talking about my Comodore 64 next? hehe)
I started programming on an Apple IIe too!
GameSalad doesn't support any kind of built-in voiceover support. You could import every possible syllable and create it yourself but I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. If your game had a limited number of items that needed to be spoken, it might be feasible.
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From what I've heard, and, if you all know better then please correct me. :-) (Newbies often need to be set straight, but at least this noob is willing to learn. LOL) Anyway, I thought that using VoiceOver, the built in read-things-aloud accessibility app on iDevices, and TalkBack, which is the same built-in read-things-aloud accessibility app for Android, you can label pictures. I know that there is a game called Lords & Knights, which I play on my iPhones, (They've gone from a 4 through a 6+.) on my iPads, (They've gone from a 2 through an Air 2.) and on my Nexus 7 and my Kindle Fire HDX. This game has been VoiceOver/TalkBack accessible on all of those devices.
That's not a card game though, but I also know that, at least on IOS, there are plenty of fully VO-accessible games using cards, games such as CardsAlone and King's Corner. Those types of solitaire-based games are great, but I have a folder containing 17 different Spades games, and none of them are VO-accessible. Neither are the Rook, Phase 10, Hearts, Bridge, Pitch, Skip-Bo, and so on games that I've bought/tried.
I hope this makes at least a little sense. LOL I guess what I'm trying to figure out is:
1. Can you make card games like Spades and Rook using GameSalad, and
2. If you can, can you label all of your pictures/buttons using GameSalad, so that, if I touch something, I hear, "Plan Now," instead of, "Button," or, if I touch a picture, it says, "Ace of Spades," instead of something like, "gr416_192c."
What do you all think? Can I label things with GameSalad, since I'm requiring my device to read it to me, not my game? I'd hate to get started, only to find out that I can't label cards/buttons so that VoiceOver or TalkBack can handle them.
By the way, if any of you would like to find out whether or not your game is VoiceOver/TalkBack-friendly, you can try it by going into Settings > General > Accessibility. For those who don't know, it will change your gestures. For example, a single tap/touch is meant to read aloud whatever my finger is on, while a double-tap is meant to activate that item.
Thanks a ton for the help so far! I honestly appreciate the advice/warnings of the problems I may encounter.
Amy
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Thanks! I think that maybe captioning my photo is what I need to do, but I'm not sure. I know that if I have a photo that VoiceOver reads as A619g, but I know that it is a photo of my mother cutting her birthday cake, or whatever, I can, and this is with VoiceOver turned on, double-tap and hold the second tap, (Usually that would mean that I would tap and hold on the picture with VoiceOver turned off, but I can't guarantee that.) and a box pops up where I can label that picture/button. If you tap and hold on a picture/button, is that captioning? At any rate, from then on, VoiceOver would read whatever I'd typed in when I did the tap and hold whenever I touched that picture or button. I'm not sure if that's captioning something, when you tap and hold on it, then type in a name or information about it or not?
Hi there, @4All2Play ! Welcome to the forums!
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I just tried Voice Over with a Display Text behavior in one of my old apps and it didn't work. Anyone else care to try?
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Oops! Ok, so what they tell us to do with VoiceOver is to "Label Element." For example, I have an app that I love called ShopShop. After creating a list, as in a shopping list, there is a button which, visually, looks like a + sign, located in the top right corner of the shopping list. This is the Add Button, and, when touched, allows you to specify the quantity and the name of the item that you wish to add to your shopping list. When I touch this button once, VoiceOver tells me, "Button." That's it. So, to change this, I did the following, with VoiceOver turned on.
So, it appears to be "labeling an element," whatever that means, that VoiceOver looks at in order to tell a user what that element is. I hope that makes sense, as I'm just trying to be as correct/concise as possible, at least for a noob. :-) Anyway, does this tell anyone what I may need to look at when it comes to having VoiceOver read out what things are? Where would I go in GameSalad in order to correctly label an element? (Whatever that means. LOL)
@4All2Play welcome to GameSalad.
We do not support any accessibly features on any of our platforms (mainly do to lack of interested from users). I would recommend a submitting a feature request in our public bug data base.
Hello BlackCloakGS, and thanks for the response. So, does this mean that, given my last post here regarding what VoiceOver calls Elements, and the way I told VoiceOver what I wanted it to announce as the name of that element, is this not something that can be done currently in GameSalad, the, what, ?naming? I guess, of elements? If I'm not using the correct terminology, don't hesitate to correct me. No hurt feelings, I promise. I just want to make sure that, as I start playing with making a game, I definitely make sure to include the proper information to do whatever it was that VoiceOver did when I did the 2-finger double-tap and hold, then typed in a name and saved it. Can anyone give me the correct terminology for what that's called? Is it naming an element? Thanks for putting up with a noob!!!
To support VoiceOver you have to link against the accessibly framework and add information to your iOS Cocoa views. We do not have any iOS GUI Views nor do we use the accessibly framework. There currently is no place to add Apple's name label or any other VoiceOVer elements in GameSalad. So currently there is no way to use VoiceOver in GameSalad.
SAD SIGH Thanks so much for the information. I guess that I'll have to figure out how badly I want these games. I mean, I want them badly enough that I looked into GameSalad, but, at my age, as someone who is definitely not a programmer, I don't know that I could manage to learn programming. I know it's not something that you learn overnight. :-)
Well, maybe, some day, I'll find a developer who is willing to modify their card games so that blind card junkies like me can use them.
Thanks a ton for all the help here guys! I guess this girl will just have to dream a little longer. :-)
Amy
We are very community driven. So if there enough support with a feature request it is some thing we would add.
I went to the site that you directed me to above, but I didn't see where I could make a feature request, only where I could report a bug, and, well, this isn't really a bug, I know. :-)
Sadly, if I'm realistic, I don't see where I'll get much community support for a feature like this. I know of an entire Google group of visually impaired/blind users who always love/sincerely appreciate new, accessible games, but I wouldn't get much support from them here, since this is more for folks who wish to develop, and they are mainly users. I'd hate to drown a great site for developers with users. I know that that's not fair to the developers. So, I can make the feature request, if I can figure out how, and I'm sure that a few folks here would support the request, but, if we're realistic, how low in the feature request list do you think it might end up? GRIN
Please guys, don't think I'm trying to be snotty, or rude. I honestly don't want to come across that way. I've been buying/trying Spades games, just as an example, since I got my first iPhone back in 2010. I keep them updated, and I keep trying them, and, well, no dice. LOL I've contacted developers, asking if they'd consider working with me on making their card game(s) VO, and, more recently, TalkBack, accessible, and I've not had any interest. I understand this. We're definitely a small subset of the market. GRIN So, I figured I'd try to do it myself, but I don't know if I want it badly enough to become a programmer. Honestly, I don't have the skill set for that, and I know it.
LOL Ok, this sounds like a rant, and that's definitely not what I meant to do. Could someone tell me where I can at least make the feature request on the web site that you gave me a post or two ago? I'd like to at least put it in the right place. :-) I saw where I could report a bug, but not where I could request a feature?
I wish all of you the best, and thanks again for your help. :-)
A Sad Card Junkie Suffering From Withdrawal ;-)
Amy,
I imagine that it wouldn't be a high-priority feature request but with a new product called Graphene in development, it's possible that this sort of thing would be easier to implement. Still, you'll be waiting either way.
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Thanks for the hope Tatiang. :-) I definitely appreciate it. I could say that I may as well just give up, that I'm obviously not going to get VO-accessible card games like Spades, Pitch/Setback, Rook, etc., wah, wah, wah, but, honestly, I guess, considering that I've been waiting/asking since 2010, I can wait a little longer. LOL Shoot, I could have gotten a 4-year computer science degree in the time I've been waiting, but, I really am being serious when I say that I know that true programming isn't something I'd be good at. I don't have the ability to string things together in a logical sequence, or, not beyond a certain, fairly low-level, point.
Thanks again for your help everyone! I guess we'll just have to see how patient I can be. I guess I've done ok so far, having been waiting 5 years, so now, I'll make my goal be 8 years. LOL You guys keep developing some really kick-a*s games, and I'll definitely keep drooling, and wishing I could play them! LOL
Amy
Hi @4All2Play,
If you still want to make a feature request, It's all the same steps as submitting a bug, but in the "Summary" field you type in "FEATURE REQUEST:" followed by the feature you'd like to see added.
If you'd like I could make one for you
Hi ForumNinja, and thanks for the information. I assumed that was how I was supposed to do it, but, well, we all know what happens when one assumes.
I'll put in the request. I know it'll be low on the feature list, but that's ok. I have absolutely nothing to say about GameSalad! Just because I couldn't do the particular thing that I wanted to do, doesn't mean anything. I've gotten nothing but help and information here. You guys are fantastic, and I sincerely wish you all nothing but the best in your projects!
If there are any developers out there who are willing to develop some accessible card games, you can definitely count on me to buy! LOL
Amy
Sorry guys. That'll teach me not to proofread. LOL In my last message, I said, "I have absolutely nothing to say about GameSalad!" Umm, I left out a word without realizing it. That sentence was supposed to read, "I have absolutely nothing BAD to say about GameSalad!" Sorry about that, but I realized that it could be read in a way that is definitely not what I intended with that word missing, so I wanted to clarify. :-)