0.8.8 and resolution independence...Doesn't work as advertised???
synthesis
Member Posts: 1,693
Okay...
So we push our game in progress right now with v 8.8 and some interesting things happened. The build went from about 12 MB to over 30 MB. So that said...
We took screenshots from a 4G and from an iPod 2G. THEY ARE THE SAME QUALITY IMAGE...even though the 4G was a 640x960 screenshot and the iPod measured 320x480.
Now when compared to the original art...the iPod version was almost identical to a 320x480 reduction (via Photoshop) of the original hi-res 640x960 image. The original art put into the game build was a MUCH better quality image. The 4G is pushing out 320x480 resolution display...not 640x960.
So...
Digging deeper...I explore the .app file on a Windows machine...inside the app build in the images folder...it appears my original art graphic is now named "[myName]@2x.png". Then there is a parsed image named "[myName].png"...the original name. This appears to be the duplicate that was generated by the compiler.
So my original art (now ...@2x.png) is 640x960 and registers as 8 Bit (which is correct) and scaled 640x960 with a file size of 291KB. Now the clone copy GS made is 320x480 but reports as 32 bit and comes in with a LARGER files size as 327KB.
And is also appears...that since the resolution on the 4G is worse than the original art...the 4G build is using the 32 bit graphic...which looks worse than an 8Bit reduction original.
So the "AUTOMATIC" resolution generator appears to actually be reducing the dimensions of a file...but BLOATS the hell out of it and quality suffers considerably. These bloated files may explain why the build increased in size so much and why some are reporting frame rate drops.
So what am I doing wrong here. Or is the Resolution Independence feature "UNFINISHED" and not fully developed yet.
ANYONE?
So we push our game in progress right now with v 8.8 and some interesting things happened. The build went from about 12 MB to over 30 MB. So that said...
We took screenshots from a 4G and from an iPod 2G. THEY ARE THE SAME QUALITY IMAGE...even though the 4G was a 640x960 screenshot and the iPod measured 320x480.
Now when compared to the original art...the iPod version was almost identical to a 320x480 reduction (via Photoshop) of the original hi-res 640x960 image. The original art put into the game build was a MUCH better quality image. The 4G is pushing out 320x480 resolution display...not 640x960.
So...
Digging deeper...I explore the .app file on a Windows machine...inside the app build in the images folder...it appears my original art graphic is now named "[myName]@2x.png". Then there is a parsed image named "[myName].png"...the original name. This appears to be the duplicate that was generated by the compiler.
So my original art (now ...@2x.png) is 640x960 and registers as 8 Bit (which is correct) and scaled 640x960 with a file size of 291KB. Now the clone copy GS made is 320x480 but reports as 32 bit and comes in with a LARGER files size as 327KB.
And is also appears...that since the resolution on the 4G is worse than the original art...the 4G build is using the 32 bit graphic...which looks worse than an 8Bit reduction original.
So the "AUTOMATIC" resolution generator appears to actually be reducing the dimensions of a file...but BLOATS the hell out of it and quality suffers considerably. These bloated files may explain why the build increased in size so much and why some are reporting frame rate drops.
So what am I doing wrong here. Or is the Resolution Independence feature "UNFINISHED" and not fully developed yet.
ANYONE?
Comments
Look forward to hearing the 'official' explanation of what's happening from the Gendai lot!
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Did you bug report it?
Not yet...
we are doing some further testing currently.
Its possible that I have a problem with the way I set the graphics up in the scene...but we are in the process of testing it. For example - My Background image is set to width = display width and height = display height.
We suspect that GS is building the entire app around 320x480 grid and then scaling every by 2. So if I size my graphics to 320 x 480 inside the scene on the fly...then the build is scaling the original art DOWN (loosing resolution) through a FORCE SCALE and then scaling it back up (to fit the screen) through its dynamic 4G scaling. If this is the case...then the resolution dependency requires that all images not be "manipulated" in size within the scene...which is a bit bogus.
Since there is ZERO documentation on the feature...we are basically forced to experiment around to figure out how Gendai intends us to use the feature...which is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING and a bit condescending on their part (IMO).
Regardless...there still is no explanation why the build generated 32 bit images for the 3G version. It appears that GS scales the image down dimensionally for the 3G but then adds 4 times the resolution to it. It appears that GS has a one size fits all attitude about "optimizing" graphics and doesn't take any consideration into account on what BIT size the original graphic was.
We try to keep our games light and fit and then GS does crap like this and completely kills the app performance wise. SOOO FRUSTRATING.
I'll let you all know what more I find out.
However, I assume that either GS, openGL, or something in the iPhone turns them all into 32bit at runtime.
Otherwise, you would not be able to fade them, scale them, or rotate them without them looking like garbage.
I dont know why you hi-res image isn't looking good on an iPhone 4 though, that sounds like a bug.
The 32 bit images are showing up in the .app packet...before its installed on a device. The GS compiler is generating the 32 bit versions...not the device.
And yes...some of the graphics look like garbage. Some graphics containing text (that were once crisp and sharp) are virtually unreadable.
Still investigating...but it appears the new resolution independence feature was rushed out the door to make the iAds release. Probably a (premature) carrot from Gendai to try and avoid any iAds backlash...which didn't work apparently (sorry for the commentary...but this release an update with buggy new features sucks...I'm tired of being their Quality Assurance dept.).
It's only $10,000!....
Well what do you expect???.......
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=8330
There might be some clues there.
here is the setup:
1) Our original image art is 640x960 8Bit at 226KB in size
2) GameSalad created an identical copy (well not really) and named is [imageName]@2x.png and it too is 640x960 8Bit but is now 291KB in size
3) GameSalad created a parsed copy as its original image name and is 320x480 and appears to be 32 Bit. This suspicion seems accurate as this file reports a file size of 327KB.
4) The file size of MY VERSION of the image at 320x480x8Bit is 71KB.
5) The app build once compile ballooned to about 3 to 4 times its size as a 3G only app build and about 2-3 times the size as a 3G only app with hi-res graphics in it.
6) Visual appearance/resolution of the app on an iPod 2G and iPhone 4G are identical.
We compiled our game with the following 3 variations. These settings were on an static background that filled the screen. The actor's default width and height was 320x480. The actor in the scene being edited in the test is not unlocked.
In test 1:
The first att in the actor was self.size.width=game.Display Size.width
The second att was identical but for the height.
Here are comparative screenshots of this test. The image on the left is a screenshot from an iPod 2g and on the right is a screenshot of a 4G. The images are just zoomed in and not manipulated in Photoshop. Note the identical pixelizations.
Original image: http://www.furiousapps.com/toxic/sample1.png
In test 2:
The first att in the actor was self.size.width=320
The 2nd att was self.size.height=480
In test 3:
We removed both width and height attribute definitions in the actor's rule set.
The only other rules in the actor were x and y positions and alpha interpolation from 0 to 1
The results were identical in all 3 tests on the 4G
All three images measure 640x960x8Bit. However...the image quality when looked at closely and comparing side by side with a 320x480 sample is identical.
Below is a side by side comparison of the image samples.
The first image is a 320x480x8Bit original (a 50% reduction of the Hi-Res art in Photoshop)
The 2nd image is an iPod 2G screenshot
The 3rd image is a iPhone 4G screenshot
The 4th image is a sample of the 640x960x8Bit original art that was used in the GS build.
Original image: http://www.furiousapps.com/toxic/sample2.png
So I am at a loss...
Not sure where to go from here...other than it looks to me like the new feature is a little under-developed. I hope I am wrong...but hopefully Gendai will answer this with a yellow post.
On the left...the original art used in the game (hi-res). On the right...a screenshot from the iPod device.
Original image: http://www.furiousapps.com/toxic/sample3.png
And one more...
Left is the iPod...Middle is the 4G...Right is a screenshot from a 4G device using high res imagery compiled as v0.8.7 BEFORE the GS update.
Original image: http://www.furiousapps.com/toxic/sample4.png
I cannot reproduce the bloated file size issues you're reporting, so be sure and attach the original image you're using in GS Creator when you post to either (not both
BTW, thanks for the effort to which you went in confirming this issue! Full-res games look great on iPhone 4 and we're going to ensure you can publish them. Looking forward to your bug report.
Thanks for replying so quickly.
So I am to understand there is a bug in play here and its not that I am building or compiling the game incorrectly.
I have uploaded to the folder below 2 samples of images used in the game. These samples came from the gameprof/images folder of the app build. The 2 sets of images are the ones you generated in the compile. The "bloat" I refer to is the parsed version...which is a larger file size than the hi-res image...yet the image is half the size dimesionally...apparently because it has be increased from 8 bit to 32 bit resolution.
Anyway...
Here are a couple of image samples from the build.
http://www.furiousApps.com/toxic/samples/
[edit]
ALSO PLACED THE ORIGINALS IN THE FOLDER
We will plan to submit to the Zendesk tomorrow. Are you just wanted our .app file? Or our gameproj file...or both?
If you could post a note here what you would like to see...then my business partner can upload the stuff from his office (in another state from me).
Those images should be enough to test, but please attach them to your Zendesk submission as well, and specify whether *all* your half-resolution images have a larger file size after publishing, or simply some of them.
Cheers!
I'll have my partner get you the game build tomorrow (during the day shift
Thanks Synthesis you just saved me a few weeks work, i was going to change all the art but wont bother now.
Darren.
You may still want to create your artwork in hi-res. I am sure they will get the bugs fixed sooner than later. Its MUCH MUCH easier to downsize resolution than upsize it.
And the 4G is just too pretty to ignore its resolution quality.
Darren.
We've patched our publishing servers with a fix for the main issue, that your double-resolution images weren't showing up. I recommend republishing now, the iPhone 4 should properly load and render the correct assets. You don't need to re-download GS Creator, just republish.
Thanks for your patience!
It seems that the hi-res is now rendering on the 4G. 1 issue down...still a couple to go.
I still cannot seem to find an explanation why our app is now 32MB and we only have 6 scenes...which are basically the front end scenes.
The image folder of the compiled .app file (inside the gameproj folder) totals 28 MB worth of images. The actual game project file (used to create the game) has an image folder of 12.6 MB (These are the original high res images that are placed in the game).
Why did the image load in the compiled app more than double when it should be maybe only an increase of 30% since the low-res images should be SMALLER than the original hi-res images. In actuality...the "low-res" clones of the original high res art is LARGER in file size than the hi-res art...apparently because they are 32 bit.
This also seems like a bug to me.
I still haven't confirmed yet if the low-res imagery is sharp or not...as my wife has my iPod at the pool today
Thx
They would have to turn all of your images, whether indexed 8-bit or not, into 32-bit images to downsize them.
You cannot resize an 8-bit image, either larger or smaller, or rotate it, etc... and still retain its original 256 color palette. If you did retain the palette, it would be completely pixellated.
What you're asking them to do is to take your original 960x640 8-bit image, turn it into 32-bit to downsize it to 480x320, then re-index it at the smaller size back to 8-bit with a slightly different adaptive palette.
That would get you the file sizes that you are expecting.
Right now they aren't doing that last step of re-indexing the smaller graphics back to 8-bit (the ones that you originally had at 8-bit)
It's a tough situation. The only way Gendai can accomplish this is to do a blanket sweep of all the graphics using Apple's PNGCrusher or whatever. But every image is different. Text needs to be handled differently than pure images. It's one thing to resize photo jpegs on flickr, an something completely altogether different to resize precise game graphics. You're going to get blurring and all sorts of other subtle alignment issues.
Anyway, synthesis, I feel your pain.
I am an absolute stickler when it comes to my graphics. But I want to take advantage of that beautiful new screen!
I started my current game before the announcement of the retina display so I am just going to keep moving forward, low-res style.
These transition times are always such a hassle. Now we have three sizes to deal with: iPhone4, iPhone, and iPad. Plus OS3 on iPad and OS4 on everything else...
I remember the pain of having to design two versions of everything for both OS9 and OSX, ugh!
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/how_tos:gsc_resolution_independence
Oh, and it appears that this game is filled with bugs.. literally. HA HA!
Just in general, I like to make my graphics a little larger, as makes rotating actors look nicer. So, after reading the wiki, and finding about iAds for pro only, it's like the 0.8.8 update wasn't really that helpful for me.
This thread is pretty awesome though. Apparently there was an issue and it seems to have been resolved.
Graphics (IMO) are what sells games on the app store. Game Play is second...and generally drives overall growth of the title.
This issue HAS to be fixed. If they can't automate it...then give us an image import function to load up a hi-res and low-res version of the graphic.
Either way...the automated image manipulation is trashing my art.
PLUS>>>
Sometimes I used 24 bit (for overlay images with transparency and for shadow or glow layers). These images seems to look like dog crap on the iPod now.
I like what GS is trying to do here....but this feature HAS to be perfect. Until it is...we cannot publish to the 4G...and Gendai shouldn't even advertise that you can until this issue is 100% working.
Hopefully this nut is cracked sooner than later. I still have a few weeks until I publish ready...but developing without knowing what they are planning to do is difficult and risky.
PLEASE GENDAI...
Give us a little insight as to how we should prepare for multi-device publishing...because right now...this new feature is not working to its spec. Don't get me wrong...its a great feature...but this one HAS TO BE PERFECT otherwise its useless.
Its only partially resolved.
Currently the 4G now renders hi-res (it didn't before). But 3G compatibility is terrible. The automated graphics cloning is horrible and completely bloating the app size and also trashing our art.
Hopefully a solution is coming. But as far as the relevance of this feature...ITS HUGE. This feature...once working 100% correctly...will make your game work seamlessly across every Apple device out there...whether its invented yet or not.
...and seeing how Apple might be working on a Game Console, future platforms with Apple includes numerous parameters - known and unknown.
The iPad has a different screen ratio...which is why it is organized separately.
What I meant was...any resolution type within a certain ratio...so pretty much any current and future iPhone.
Hopefully we see some yellow posts soon.
I used larger graphics (for a 640x960 screen) and I tested on a slow iPod Touch. The graphics looked great, even though they weren't optimized. I think it's better to let the device do the scaling, as I'm not sure what Gendai Games is doing.
Aside from the larger graphics, my game is ridiculously optimized though. If I tried to pull this stunt with some of my older games, I'm thinking it might crash.