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Shadowghost135
Member Posts: 38
Hey all,
I've been reading a lot of the forums, and trying to do all I can to learn from what you guys talk about and whats in the support area, and I feel that things are coming along very nicely. I'm starting to finally get some things rolling and notice some of my ideas and creations coming to life. I've only been here about a month now, but I've found that I really enjoy this community and I think there are some great things at work here.
So in all my readings and the thoughts which I have within my own head, I just wanted to ask you guys....have you found that once you get a few apps up that the number of people out there looking at them is fairly large?
I mean I know that there are tens of thousands of apps on the store, and that one really wants to stand out, but what can an unknown realistically expect to see in the form of views when they get their first (or even second) app up live?
Thanks guys :-D
I've been reading a lot of the forums, and trying to do all I can to learn from what you guys talk about and whats in the support area, and I feel that things are coming along very nicely. I'm starting to finally get some things rolling and notice some of my ideas and creations coming to life. I've only been here about a month now, but I've found that I really enjoy this community and I think there are some great things at work here.
So in all my readings and the thoughts which I have within my own head, I just wanted to ask you guys....have you found that once you get a few apps up that the number of people out there looking at them is fairly large?
I mean I know that there are tens of thousands of apps on the store, and that one really wants to stand out, but what can an unknown realistically expect to see in the form of views when they get their first (or even second) app up live?
Thanks guys :-D
Comments
But for the most part, I don't think you'll really see it happen.
It is possible, though. I think it would just require twittering with a lot of followers, facebook promotion, blogs, etc.
We had a pretty good run with one of our games last month (we were featured etc), and we didn't notice any bump what-so-ever on our other games/apps.
Maybe if we we pro, and put the url forwarding in to our other games, we may have though....but just shows that for most customers, it's about the product rather than the producer.
There are numerous books and online articles about brand building. A lot of the concepts in theory should be transferable I would have thought.
There are multi-million dollar app success stories that never spent a dime on advertising. There are other apps that have big names and big marketing budgets that still flop...usually because they are overpriced (comparatively) and/or suck.
If you can get your "kite" in the air...and its good...it will stay aloft.
But the content HAS to be stellar...otherwise its going to collect app store dust like most others.
We (my company) has concluded that not 1 single game created by GameSalad should be over $1 in price (if you want to sell volume). The caliber of game that GS can create just isn't par with anything over $1 (that sells well).
Hopefully a few of the app review sites I sent promo codes review the game, that might increase purchases, especially if they give it good reviews.
Congratulations on your game release. I hope it does well for you...but I think what I was saying still holds true.
Even though Geometrix may be your best game yet...does it stand up to a top 1000 game rank title? My thought is that it might not.
A couple of things...AND I WILL BE SINCERE AND CONSTRUCTIVE (I do not want to belittle you or discourage you in the least)
First...your icon isn't very good and your graphics are not very captivating.
I understand that you are going minimal with the look...but minimal doesn't sell very well. If you study the top 1000...they are very polished and very refined (for the most part...there are always exceptions) in their style and they are VERY captivating. The icons are very well done and the screenshots draw you in.
What I mean is...Why are you using the boring white pillboxes with static default text in them for Geometrix? Why not use "designed" and "stylized" buttons tailored to a specific look and feel.
An example of a VERY WELL executed but minimalistic styled AAA game is GeoDefense. Its very polished and scaled appropriately for the iPhone. Additionally, the HUD is very tight and well organized and the screenshots oooze action and dynamic gameplay. I am not getting that so much with Geometrix.
Again...I don't want to discourage you in building games...but to make money at it...the games and apps have to be stellar and top rate. Icons are what gets your game first noticed. If the icon is bland and doesn't really tell a story or suggest something that is intriguing...then the game won't get browsed. If the icon does its job...then you are 70% of the way to a sale.
The other 30% comes from amazing screenshots. The shots must SCREAM that this game is going to be fun and invite you to hours of non-stop play that never grows old. Too many games look to provide 10 minutes (if that) of interesting activity and then they are dust in the wind. If the game play doesn't stay fresh and the experience isn't rich...then word of mouth won't happen and the kite won't get aloft. The best test is any 8 to 10 year old kid. If they are bored in less than 5 minutes...you have a stinker. If the game holds their interest for 30 or more minutes...you might be on to something good.
Its a trifecta in game development.
1) Graphics have to be first rate.
2) The game MUST provide a unique experience.
3) Gameplay must have legs and not get boring in less than 4 hours (of total game play).
If you fail even slightly at any of those...you are probably looking at a 10-20 download a week app...if you are lucky.
If you ace all three...you have a CHANCE that the app will get traction and linger in the top 200 of your genre.
You goal should be...
What do I need to do to make a game that would be worth at least $4-6. Then try to achieve 80% of that...and sell it for a $1. Then you might get into the top 500 and stay there.
To do that...you need to have FIRST RATE graphics. You need at least 60-80 levels...100+ if possible. You need to have achievements and lots of little extras in there (bonuses, weapons, coins, hidden levels, whatever). You need to have at least 4-5 hours of fresh game play....and if possible...have the gameplay develop so that if the player chooses to play it through again...the dynamics change some (P vs Z for example).
I know its a tall order...but if you are in app development for a career and not just for shits and giggles...then you have to compete at the top tier...or else you are going to go hungry.
Good luck with your game...I sincerely mean that and hope it does well for you and wish you only successes and respect. If you think everything I said above is total bullshit...that's okay too...perhaps someone else will find it interesting.
Cheers!
I need a good photo editing software(GIMP is decent, but it is no Photoshop), and Photoshop is expensive.
I don't have the time to make these huge multi-level games, and that is kind of hard to do with the kind of games I make(they don't exactly lend themselves to having multiple levels).
In other words, what this boils down to is, I need to a lot of money, which I am clearly not making. And for my games to make a lot of money, I need to have a lot of money in the first place. It is a vicious cycle. So the looks suck, I get it, but the game plays great, so hopefully this is an instance where people aren't graphic whores and enjoy a game for the gameplay.
I even took out a 7 day ad space on AppSmile.com(the only ad space I could afford), so hopefully that boosts my sales even a little bit. I'm currently ranked #144 in Board games, so hopefully I can break that Top 100 spot.
Also, I have tested it with a handful of people of all ages, they all loved it, and one of the kids didn't give me back my iPod Touch for a whole freaking hour man. :P
It sounds like you are on the right track...but don't let money get in the way. There are lots of ways to make something interesting. Photoshop isn't the end all.
Have you tried Sketchup? Its free and you could make some slick 2D vector art with it.
Southpark is a wildly successful adult cartoon in the US and it started out being cutout construction paper. It was successful because it was incredibly well produced (and well written).
Drawings on a scanner are fine...JUST BE CREATIVE AND ORIGINAL.
The imagery MUST BE CAPTIVATING to draw in sales. And the gameplay has to be solid enough that kids play it continuously and other kids SEE them playing it and decide to download it too. Kids drive the market for the most part and word of mouth is your best friend.
Keep at it and I guess what I was saying above is that if you are doing this to make money...YOU HAVE TO BE AN ACE!!! Do whatever is in your means to make every app you make a masterpiece. Then perhaps...1 out of 10 of them will hit a home run...and you only need 1 of them to do that to be a huge success.
Don't settle for lackluster and don't make excuses. Find a solution and stay in the game...and at the top of your game.
And it will be all hand drawn, cause I want it to look like it is taking place in a kid's dream(some weird kid, huh?), the problem I'm having is randomizing the text that shows up on the "enemies".
He built a decent gameplay (nothing amazingly original...but it was compelling and engaging) and he did some great hand drawn art...and A LOT OF IT.
Its my understanding that its doing quite well in sales overall.
Just an example...
Good luck with this title and the next one(s).
Those are our opinions (internally) based on what we have deduced of what it takes to have a top 500 game. What I mean by GS can't create a game of more than $1 caliber means that there is no way you can do a Plants vs. Zombies or FIFA soccer or Real Racing or any other solid title in the $2-5 price point.
You can come close to doing a Doodle Jump or Angry Birds...but these are very polished versions of a simple game type (and they are also only $1...as most in the top 100 are). To get noticed...you have to raise the bar to compete. If that means including 100+ levels...then fine...then that is what needs to be done.
If you are trying to get 1000s of sales a day (which is what it takes to be in the Top 100)...then you have to have a $1 game that plays as good as a $5 game...or as close to it as possible.
Talent and ability are virtues of the developer that assists the process of developing the game. They are NOT the quantifiers or guarantees of success (example...More Cupcake!). The game has to strike a nerve with the market and also be captivating enough for the market to actually take notice.
If you think a 1-10 leveler (looping) GS Taptard is going to make the top 100...well...I guess its possible...but I would consider it an extreme long shot. I would rather put my money (meaning time) on a solid 100 leveler that plays in 5 minute bursts. The levels just provide variety and freshness to the game to give it legs and longevity. The price point at $1 then guarantees that price is not a deterrent to establishing sales momentum. The buzzes and whistles, tight design and exciting visual FX gives it a polished look and feel.
Once you have a wildly successful $1 game...it is not until then that I would recommend you attempt a $2 game.
But that's just me. To each their own.
[EDIT}
Thanks for the Toxic Kudos!
My case in point...101 levels...captivating visuals...a solid icon and a $1 price point. We are practicing what I preach here. Only time will tell if I'm talking out of my ass here or not.
I HATED Bubble Bobble because it was SOOOOO long it quickly became repetitive. Same with Lemmings and Boulderdash... a lot of these "classics" just weren't completed because, simply put... people have short attention spans. The iPhone does help to some extent as you can pick up from where you left off but I'd still rather have something short and sharp (albeit with cool unlockables to keep you coming back). Geometry Wars is the perfect example of such a game. It keeps you coming back for wave after wave of enemy attacks because of its quality, not the amount of levels. Although, I must admit... Tempest 2000 is one of my favourite games of all time... and it has 100 levels... oh, but hang on.... I'VE ONLY EVER GOTTEN TO ABOUT LEVEL 50!!!
Another case in point is Gran Turismo. I have never completed one of them. i LOVE racing games but no matter how good a game is, at some point it becomes repetitive. There CAN bee too much of a good thing. In fact, my favourite racing game of ALL TIME is the original Need for Speed for 3DO. It had 3 tracks. THREE. It also only had 8 cars but it was so incredibly well done I still love playing it to this day, 18 years after its release! Then there's Street Fighter II... not 100 levels there... you think anyone would play through if there were?
Stating you need 100 levels is really quite stupid. It depends entirely on the genre. You can't just make blanket comments like that.
Now you just have to hope that a cockroach is a likeable enough hero for a game... I think it is... I'd buy it from those visuals alone!
Fair enough...good rebuttal!
But I still think that a game has to have a solid enough life to last more than 15 minutes before becoming stale. SOOOOO many of the games out there are micro-games that literally become tedious after about 15 minutes. Very few are successful (there are always exception to every statement). I am referring to "playing the odds".
I personally do not put a lot of stake in placing a title out there that has a very short life span of originality. The games that seem to pull me in are the ones that build and have variation as you play into it. But some games are WAY over-produced. Games that take 4 hours to play one round tend to become overwhelming. I agree that short burst gaming is what the iPhone is intended for. But I also feel that you have a higher probability of success if you combine short burst gaming with a storyline and a longer sequence of game progression.
In other words...a bunch of short bursts of gameplay stitched together in a longer sequence (of levels). I also said 60 was the minimum...and 100 was the ideal. Its a selling point. "100+ levels of game play!".
Gamers come in all varieties. To achieve a top 100 slot...you have to cater to many different types of players. Some are like you...and want short burst gaming...so give them that. Others want variety and a story...so give them that too. While others want to "BEAT THE GAME" so give them a chance to do that too.
Its about taking the best of what a game has to offer and building on it. And to do it to the best of your abilities and then...most importantly...address the market demands.
I don't think my statement that including 100+ levels if possible is stupid. It gives those gamers that want a storyline and a long stretch of freshness what they want. To reject them...means you reject 40-50% of the market. Some gamers are 5 years old while others are 50. The top 100 games out there work well for any age level (for the most part).
Again...just our market philosophy. Its all new to us too and every time you think you have the app store dialed in...it surprises you and completely changes its dynamic.
I think luck and timing plays a big part in this too...but I am speaking mostly on the issues you have the most control over...and that is game design specifications.
What games have you put out so far? Be keen to check them out
A beta of BDX is on the GS website here:
http://gamesalad.com/game/play/46197
Our other apps currently out are Lifestyle apps ( http://www.spiritApps.com ).
We are submitting our 3rd in that series (whiskey) this weekend.
We've only been in app development for about 12 months (part time) and in game development for about 5 months.
E.
I spent a few hours on my app's icon and ended up seeing 457 d/l's yesterday on its debut! Although, I'm pretty sure there might be other reasons why it is so popular as well... ;-)
BTW, here are some promo's for that app.
RA6KFTFPPL7X
KJ36X764XN34
ELMYW7JP46LR
TFEXJ46TK6Y3
PJKA3A4WKP4N
FJNN3XEFPEPH
I don't want to start a riot, but yes I am intentionally capitalizing on the left over buzz around the banned "Handy Light" app. However, I started working on my flashlight app to test RGB scrollers on the 19th, before this Handy Light craziness.