adent42Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PROPosts: 3,166
@blob, I know there will be some more space once we tighten up the two side bars, but we are width limited on smaller laptops. I really like this last design more than the first one you proposed. If we do something like this, I'd probably make it responsive, having the coordinate setters drop below the rest of the UI if the screen is too narrow.
The alternative I was thinking of was turning it into a more traditional WYSIWYG "text editor" area, with a bigger text block. The layout tools would be along the top as is usual in that kind of UI, but the position stuff would be along the bottom. The big drawback in my design is that it takes more space for a behavior which is most often used for short labels and not large blocks of text. That might work as a pop-up modal for people editing bigger text blocks.
@Socks said:
I have a first class degree in design and another in typography, that doesn't mean my opinion is worth any more than the next GS user...
Yes, it does. Not to pick on this quote from @Socks , but I'd like to take this opportunity to respond to the state of design in the modern world as a whole. Just because it's a creative endeavor does not mean that 'everyone is entitled to their opinion' and 'its all subjective'. Of course, @Socks and @blob have each presented fantastic examples above, so just read those...my point is: if you have legitimate experience and knowledge in this area, don't soften the blow in anticipation to the seemingly obligatory incoming response of 'well, I just prefer XYZ'.
Either way, fantastic job again by @adent42 for your continuous appearance with quality updates AND being a great sport in this particular thread when it comes to strong criticism. Some of us may be worried about the future of GS, but you've sure made a very noticeable attempt to improve communication. It is appreciated.
@Socks said:
I have a first class degree in design and another in typography, that doesn't mean my opinion is worth any more than the next GS user...
Not sure what a "first class degree" is but obviously they have great skills!!!
We are lucky they care enough to post and give thoughts.
I described symptoms. " Font is hard to read. Boxes are not defined" . etc etc. But they can actually identity the problem and give solutions. So thats great.
I am learning a bit more about design from their posts. And heck designing stuff is fun!
A first class degree is one you're proud of but you don't feel like name-dropping haha.
It's funny: I think the people who would most likely rate themselves the lowest in ability to properly craft a quality UI are those in other design fields. UI is just as much a science as it is an art, and it takes another designer to adequately recognize the challenge.
@adent42 said:
. . . if you have legitimate experience and knowledge in this area, don't soften the blow in anticipation to the seemingly obligatory incoming response of 'well, I just prefer XYZ'.
Well, what I meant to say that regardless of experience / training - there is a large subjective element to design, but that regardless of personal taste (the subjective part) there are lots of things wrong - beyond subjectivity - with the current design. Hope that makes sense !
@Toque said:
Not sure what a "first class degree" is . . .
Sorry I should have made it clearer, it's simply the grading system used for degree classification in the British system, so it goes 1.1 . . . 2.1 . . . 2.2 . . . 3rd . . . Pass.
A 1.1 grade is called a 'first' or 'first-class honours' . . . the point I was trying to make was that I've worked for years in design professionally and I think blob framed it best when he said that if a design professional handed in some of the current design elements to their boss, the boss would ask the designer whether this was a joke or not . . . seriously ! . . . I don't want to be needlessly critical or hyperbolic, but you honestly would be taken aside and asked what was going on here, you'd be asked to justify the colour palette - an odd mix of greyed out purples, muted green/grays and various seemingly random shades of something or other, none of it following any kind of colour theory . . you'd be asked to explain why the fonts are different sizes . . . and so on.
Like I say I don't want to be needlessly judgemental, I just want to point out the reality of how off-the-target this is, in fact I actually struggled to imagine the actual reaction of a design director as I couldn't ever envisage any designer I've ever worked with handing in something like this, even studio juniors (interns), the lowest on the graphic design food-chain, will have usually come from a degree course and might not come up with an award winning design, but what they would come up with would be competent, good selection of fonts, a colour palette that works, elements lined up and of the same size and so on . . . .
@Adrenaline said:
A first class degree is one you're proud of but you don't feel like name-dropping haha.
True story, back in the day (1990s) when I studied typography, I became a member of the Society of Typographic Designers, part of this honour was the right to add initials after your name (similar to things like degrees / masters and so on) when you'd become a full member, but the problem was that no one was willing to put S.T.D after their name on their business cards . . . weird huh ?
In the late 1990s they actually changed their name to the International Society of Typographic Designers because of the STD thing, which helped a little.
@Toque said:
Not sure what a "first class degree" is . . .
I just wasn’t familiar with the term. Obviously more than qualified to have your opinions taken seriously. I didn’t mean disrespect.
It’s a little reassuring that it appears GS takes yours and blobs thoughts seriously.
Though general users should be encouraged to have some input as well.
Seems something so crucial elicits so little interest from the community. Puzzling to me.
The info given now by GS would of been helpful before the jam. I assumed the current build was a near finished product and I was exploring other options struggling with the current build.
Looking forward to some updates and seeing it develop.
Thanks again for socks and blobs input and Credit to GS to clarify things.
A GS 2.0 blog or something would help the community keep up with things
@Adrenaline said:
Either way, fantastic job again by @adent42 for your continuous appearance with quality updates AND being a great sport in this particular thread when it comes to strong criticism. Some of us may be worried about the future of GS, but you've sure made a very noticeable attempt to improve communication. It is appreciated.
Despite my strong, rather hardcore criticism, I also have to strongly agree with this. @adent42 you really are juggling so many things at once , and we do appreciate it and notice it!.
Thank you for that.
Well, what I meant to say that regardless of experience / training - there is a large subjective element to design, but that regardless of personal taste (the subjective part) there are lots of things wrong - beyond subjectivity - with the current design. Hope that makes sense !
So I have a question and some comments, if y'all care to listen. The question is: do you have to be pro to publish from the online creator? (Can you even publish with it?) And my comments are thus: The creator seemed nice when I used it for the Thanksgiving contest. There were some bugs, such as the position of an actor kept changing by a few pixels usually,( why?), the syncing with server kept taking away what I was typing, and I believe that I couldn't scroll left, but overall I thought the creator was neat. The only problem is that now that the creator is online, and once it gets perfected, nobody will want to download the windows or mac. (I would assume that's not good.) So to finish, good job GS. I have no idea what you guys are arguing about, except something about the designing of the online creator, so I guess it's over my head.
Oh and what will it take to upgrade my little symbol from new developer?
P.S. Is the only way to access my forum profile by clicking on my own name? Thanks.
@Twayne2 said:
Oh and what will it take to upgrade my little symbol from new developer?
P.S. Is the only way to access my forum profile by clicking on my own name? Thanks.
If you have questions unrelated to the original post/ discussion just start a new post with your questions.
But related comments are greatly welcomed here. Thanks for posting.
No apology required. There are so few posts on the forums like there used to be I encourage people to post!!!! Its a good thing.
Joking around is even more encouraged!!!
Obviously we can publish from the online tool to the arcade but never tried anywhere else. Honestly with all the bugs etc. I won't use it for another game. I just went back to creator.
I think after a certain period of time or certain number of posts your symbol with be changed.......I can't remember how long that takes.
If you click on the top right there is your icon. Drop menu and then profile.
I dont know what happened to our personal icons. But most don't show up now or off and on.....
@blob You're a smart cookie! Thanks for the valuable UI/UX contributions.
I enjoy browsing your posts though I would ask one thing - aim for brevity and clarity.
Less CAPS, more *pt 1 *pt 2 *pt 3
I understand you're brainstorming here and just getting the ideas out is great but it'll help me read and likely prompt more and better response if the suggestions are concise.
@RowdyPants said:
I would ask one thing - aim for brevity and clarity.
While I agree with you, epescially in this age of 240 characters, sound bites and short attention span, these posts were mainly aimed at the amazing GS staff and their stubborn non designers Jihad.
Hence all the explanations...as i'm afraid stand alone suggestions may not suffice to educate and changes their minds.
And so far they have been responsive.
If at some point if I realize that nothing is changing, I will switch to cleaner, simpler format as you suggested to rally our community together which is what @adent42 dreads the most ahahaha ..( but in a positive constructive way)
However, as @Adrenaline mentioned, they're being great sports and paying attention at the moment.
Time will tell whether GS is just appeasing us with words or truly incorporating some of these ideas in the next updates.
Down the line as @ForumNinja suggested, we'll have to compiled all suggestions in 1 post so that they do not get lost in the mush of a lengthy thread.
@ForumNinja said:
I'd like to add that keeping all the suggestions in one post would make it a lot easier to find them in the future once we've started on improving the UI.
You my friend are the witty one! Yes we say it pronounced puke but with a “t”. Tuke. But thats slang. Yours is technically correct but I’ve only ever heard it as tuke.
Comments
@blob, I know there will be some more space once we tighten up the two side bars, but we are width limited on smaller laptops. I really like this last design more than the first one you proposed. If we do something like this, I'd probably make it responsive, having the coordinate setters drop below the rest of the UI if the screen is too narrow.
The alternative I was thinking of was turning it into a more traditional WYSIWYG "text editor" area, with a bigger text block. The layout tools would be along the top as is usual in that kind of UI, but the position stuff would be along the bottom. The big drawback in my design is that it takes more space for a behavior which is most often used for short labels and not large blocks of text. That might work as a pop-up modal for people editing bigger text blocks.
Yes, it does. Not to pick on this quote from @Socks , but I'd like to take this opportunity to respond to the state of design in the modern world as a whole. Just because it's a creative endeavor does not mean that 'everyone is entitled to their opinion' and 'its all subjective'. Of course, @Socks and @blob have each presented fantastic examples above, so just read those...my point is: if you have legitimate experience and knowledge in this area, don't soften the blow in anticipation to the seemingly obligatory incoming response of 'well, I just prefer XYZ'.
Either way, fantastic job again by @adent42 for your continuous appearance with quality updates AND being a great sport in this particular thread when it comes to strong criticism. Some of us may be worried about the future of GS, but you've sure made a very noticeable attempt to improve communication. It is appreciated.
Not sure what a "first class degree" is but obviously they have great skills!!!
We are lucky they care enough to post and give thoughts.
I described symptoms. " Font is hard to read. Boxes are not defined" . etc etc. But they can actually identity the problem and give solutions. So thats great.
I am learning a bit more about design from their posts. And heck designing stuff is fun!
Thanks!
A first class degree is one you're proud of but you don't feel like name-dropping haha.
It's funny: I think the people who would most likely rate themselves the lowest in ability to properly craft a quality UI are those in other design fields. UI is just as much a science as it is an art, and it takes another designer to adequately recognize the challenge.
Your right!
I think the Canadian equivalent is a degree with distinction.
I henceforth bestow a degree with distinction to blob and socks as well. Great designs.
Well, what I meant to say that regardless of experience / training - there is a large subjective element to design, but that regardless of personal taste (the subjective part) there are lots of things wrong - beyond subjectivity - with the current design. Hope that makes sense !
Sorry I should have made it clearer, it's simply the grading system used for degree classification in the British system, so it goes 1.1 . . . 2.1 . . . 2.2 . . . 3rd . . . Pass.
A 1.1 grade is called a 'first' or 'first-class honours' . . . the point I was trying to make was that I've worked for years in design professionally and I think blob framed it best when he said that if a design professional handed in some of the current design elements to their boss, the boss would ask the designer whether this was a joke or not . . . seriously ! . . . I don't want to be needlessly critical or hyperbolic, but you honestly would be taken aside and asked what was going on here, you'd be asked to justify the colour palette - an odd mix of greyed out purples, muted green/grays and various seemingly random shades of something or other, none of it following any kind of colour theory . . you'd be asked to explain why the fonts are different sizes . . . and so on.
Like I say I don't want to be needlessly judgemental, I just want to point out the reality of how off-the-target this is, in fact I actually struggled to imagine the actual reaction of a design director as I couldn't ever envisage any designer I've ever worked with handing in something like this, even studio juniors (interns), the lowest on the graphic design food-chain, will have usually come from a degree course and might not come up with an award winning design, but what they would come up with would be competent, good selection of fonts, a colour palette that works, elements lined up and of the same size and so on . . . .
True story, back in the day (1990s) when I studied typography, I became a member of the Society of Typographic Designers, part of this honour was the right to add initials after your name (similar to things like degrees / masters and so on) when you'd become a full member, but the problem was that no one was willing to put S.T.D after their name on their business cards . . . weird huh ?
In the late 1990s they actually changed their name to the International Society of Typographic Designers because of the STD thing, which helped a little.
We would use the term “> @Socks said:
I just wasn’t familiar with the term. Obviously more than qualified to have your opinions taken seriously. I didn’t mean disrespect.
It’s a little reassuring that it appears GS takes yours and blobs thoughts seriously.
Though general users should be encouraged to have some input as well.
Seems something so crucial elicits so little interest from the community. Puzzling to me.
The info given now by GS would of been helpful before the jam. I assumed the current build was a near finished product and I was exploring other options struggling with the current build.
Looking forward to some updates and seeing it develop.
Thanks again for socks and blobs input and Credit to GS to clarify things.
A GS 2.0 blog or something would help the community keep up with things
None taken at all !
Absolutely, the actual users of the product should have a lot of input !
Despite my strong, rather hardcore criticism, I also have to strongly agree with this.
@adent42 you really are juggling so many things at once , and we do appreciate it and notice it!.
Thank you for that.
So, this answer to @Socks question: who is and will be doing UI design is you @adent42?
Dilly dilly!
So I have a question and some comments, if y'all care to listen. The question is: do you have to be pro to publish from the online creator? (Can you even publish with it?) And my comments are thus: The creator seemed nice when I used it for the Thanksgiving contest. There were some bugs, such as the position of an actor kept changing by a few pixels usually,( why?), the syncing with server kept taking away what I was typing, and I believe that I couldn't scroll left, but overall I thought the creator was neat. The only problem is that now that the creator is online, and once it gets perfected, nobody will want to download the windows or mac. (I would assume that's not good.) So to finish, good job GS. I have no idea what you guys are arguing about, except something about the designing of the online creator, so I guess it's over my head.
Oh and what will it take to upgrade my little symbol from new developer?
P.S. Is the only way to access my forum profile by clicking on my own name? Thanks.
If you have questions unrelated to the original post/ discussion just start a new post with your questions.
But related comments are greatly welcomed here. Thanks for posting.
Sorry, @Toque, I just wanted to lighten the mood.
No apology required. There are so few posts on the forums like there used to be I encourage people to post!!!! Its a good thing.
Joking around is even more encouraged!!!
Obviously we can publish from the online tool to the arcade but never tried anywhere else. Honestly with all the bugs etc. I won't use it for another game. I just went back to creator.
I think after a certain period of time or certain number of posts your symbol with be changed.......I can't remember how long that takes.
If you click on the top right there is your icon. Drop menu and then profile.
I dont know what happened to our personal icons. But most don't show up now or off and on.....
@blob You're a smart cookie! Thanks for the valuable UI/UX contributions.
I enjoy browsing your posts though I would ask one thing - aim for brevity and clarity.
Less CAPS, more *pt 1 *pt 2 *pt 3
I understand you're brainstorming here and just getting the ideas out is great but it'll help me read and likely prompt more and better response if the suggestions are concise.
/luvyoumuymucho
While I agree with you, epescially in this age of 240 characters, sound bites and short attention span, these posts were mainly aimed at the amazing GS staff and their stubborn non designers Jihad.
Hence all the explanations...as i'm afraid stand alone suggestions may not suffice to educate and changes their minds.
And so far they have been responsive.
If at some point if I realize that nothing is changing, I will switch to cleaner, simpler format as you suggested to rally our community together which is what @adent42 dreads the most ahahaha ..( but in a positive constructive way)
However, as @Adrenaline mentioned, they're being great sports and paying attention at the moment.
Time will tell whether GS is just appeasing us with words or truly incorporating some of these ideas in the next updates.
Down the line as @ForumNinja suggested, we'll have to compiled all suggestions in 1 post so that they do not get lost in the mush of a lengthy thread.
With that in mind, @adent42 or @ForumNinja could one of you combine the thread below:
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/95813/why-are-they-building-the-web-version-without-pro-designers#latest
into the current one?
Thanks in advance,
Done.
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They toook yours away for being too cheeky!
They are showing up today. I was thinking “witty fun.” Perhaps that’s what “ cheeky “ means?
@Toque You missed the "toook" = Toque pun!
Isn't that how toque is pronounced?
You my friend are the witty one! Yes we say it pronounced puke but with a “t”. Tuke. But thats slang. Yours is technically correct but I’ve only ever heard it as tuke.