The party is nearly over :)

UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
Well guys it's looking like Bumps will soon be out of the top 75 games and we saw a massive drop in sales again today (and a bigger one 2morro) but it's been a fantastic couple of weeks giving us enough $$$ to make more games and have another go.

We peaked at #29 Paid and #17 games so there's hope for all.

The reviews in the US store at the top are all bad due to the fact iTunes sorts from most helpful and i reckon some one has gone out of there way to make the bad ones near the top which doesn't help but if there honest then that's fine.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bumps/id378075315?mt=8

I want to thank everyone who supported us and i'm sorry we didn't manage to get in the top 10 but we REALLY tried with our marketing campaign and did manage to get featured on some very big sites with some great reviews and of course the front of the apple store (the biggest factor in the fast climb up the charts imo).

At the end of the day Bumps fell a little short in some areas and we hope to make bigger and better games with the user feedback.

At least we might of changed some reviewers opinion on GS so that's good for you guys.

We will still update with more levels (1.1 out any day now and 1.2 is nearly finished).

We are all learning together and if anyone thinks my advice is worthy i'm happy to share anything with you guys....just ask!

Again thank you all and lets hope one day one of us gets into the top 10!

Go Go GS! and now i have my new iPad expect more games coming soon!

Darren.

Comments

  • amigoniamigoni Member Posts: 78
    Hi Darren,
    Great work. I truly think your game was great and if it wasn't for the bad reviews I believe that you would have stayed up there for much much longer. A new branded game will give you that. Bumps 2 or whatever you decide to call it.

    Looking over the bad reviews it seems that there were only two issues. Freezes and crashes the main one and the fact that the game seemed to easy to beat.

    The game is awesome and I am sure that Bumps 2 will be much, much better. Maybe even call it Hard Bumps or Bumps Extreme to address the easy issue. Or rename the current one bumps junior and the next one AP ( Advanced Placement) Bumps. Just a few ideas.

    Sorry about the crashes, unfortunately it makes a big difference. It seems that once you are up there it's all in the reviews.
  • BarkBarkCoBarkBarkCo Member Posts: 1,400
    I've seen games pick up a little heat well after the initial launch hype, so there IS still hope for top 10. You might get featured by some non-gaming news site with a larger audience. However, even if this is the extent of your success with Bumps, it was a good run!

    Edit: Has anyone tried swapping/switching categories when an update is released? That might give you some added exposure with iTunes.
  • SparkyidrSparkyidr Member Posts: 2,033
    Hey Darren.
    Such a shame you are dropping places.
    Sounds like you ohave had a really similar experience to us, in so much as you have had a great run for the week you are in the N&N, but once it's over, it's really hard to maintain those sales.
    Although we only peaked at 96 overall....I would have thought being in that top 25 would have sustained you more than we had.

    Just goes to show, that a decent game idea, good colourful graphics, and a nice eye catching icon can do decent things for you.

    I can sense a little disappointment in your post, and we have been there brother.(/bumps chest with fist)

    Onwards and upwards.
  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
    We have the lite and 1.1 out soon and as soon as 1.1 we will submit 1.2 but i really can't see us climbing back up (unless the 1.1 reviews are good).

    A little disappointed yes but also very proud and proud of you guys for all the support and help in reaching as high as we did.

    Here's to the future!

    Cheers Guys,

    Darren.
  • RiffelRiffel Member Posts: 1,272
    Hei Darren, you are my GS game bechmark! Keep creative and
    motivational like this video I got from TA
    http://video.allthingsd.com/video/a-cheap-apple-app-means-big-money-for-developers/B69CCFC2-ECB4-47D9-A2B0-4F9130245D32

    Good Luck and $ucce$$!
    Marcos Riffel
  • DevilsDevils Member Posts: 561
    Hello, Darren I thought your game was going to make it in all honesty it was a fun game congratulations on all the success hope Bumps 2 is even bigger and better. Is there any chance you might want to post what the game sales where like if possible?
  • butterbeanbutterbean Member Posts: 4,315
    Hey Darren

    I think your game did make it, and the fact that it sat there in the top 50 for that long is an incredible feat.

    It's not an easy thing staying in the top 50, as there are multiple variables like advertising money that other companies have to spend, other games getting featured, and just the overall competition.

    I think it was a great game, and the fact that it even made it there in the first place is spectacular. Not many can claim this having used Gamesalad.

    Good luck with your sequel!
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    I know you have your reasons, but I think you are crazy to not upgrade to pro and use the url feature to send people from the lite version to the full. Assuming that you put just enough content in the lite version I would have to guess you will get thousands of DLs a day and quite a few conversions to pro if you used the technique of automatically forwarding them to the appstore page for the full version of bumps. I would think it would really help to keep you competitive. Especially when your competition is using tactics like that. Anyways, great game, great run, great inspiration! I look forward to whatever you have coming next.
  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
    Yeah i know and i think Gendai are making us suffer without url in express :( such a shame as a lot more devs would make a lot more money and get higher in the charts which equals promoting GS with the splash.

    Wonder what the legal stance is if a pro user compiled Bumps Lite for us for a fee?

    The Lite has the intro, tutorial and the 1st 2 areas and 1 mini game, we think this is enough for them to get a good feel for the game but yeah not sure how many are going to type Bumps in the search bar tbh....sigh.

    Darren.
  • reddotincreddotinc Member Posts: 653
    I second what scitunes said.. Your thinking should not be that they are making you suffer, but rather the fact that you don't want to pay for it. I think you're crazy not to go for it.. If anything it will propel your desire to earn it back..

    // red.
  • JamesZeppelinJamesZeppelin Member Posts: 1,927
    This must be where games like doodle jump and angry birds spend 5-10k in one day on a marketing campaign organized by someone who knows how to do it.

    Those games dont just stay up there by chance.

    You have a rare shot with a game that gets people's attention.

    It might not be a good idea to just watch it sink down the ranks.

    A lot of people would kill for this opportunity.

    Noone is making you suffer without URL forwarding. The fact that you are letting 2k stand in your way makes me cringe.

    I promise you the games around the ranks where you are spend way more than that.
  • TymeMasterTymeMaster Member Posts: 527
    I am not sure how much this impacted you, but when I google "bumps ipa" your app is available free on a ton of file sharing sites.

    On a side note, last week I was talking to someone at the Apple store when i was there to pickup another iPhone 4. He was a regular customer, and was talking about jailbreaking being legal. I mentioned that yes, it is legal, but putting stolen software on the device is illegal. His reply was something like I won't pay for stuff on my phone. I had to laugh (and did laugh) at him when I said "If $1 or $2 is going to break you, why are you in this store"? Got to love people.
  • butterbeanbutterbean Member Posts: 4,315
    JamesZeppelin said:
    This must be where games like doodle jump and angry birds spend 5-10k in one day on a marketing campaign organized by someone who knows how to do it.

    Those games dont just stay up there by chance.

    You have a rare shot with a game that gets people's attention.

    It might not be a good idea to just watch it sink down the ranks.

    A lot of people would kill for this opportunity.

    Noone is making you suffer without URL forwarding. The fact that you are letting 2k stand in your way makes me cringe.

    I promise you the games around the ranks where you are spend way more than that.

    Yeah I think a lot of people really don't understand the amount of advertising and marketing money that goes into apps that stay in the top 25, or even top 50 for that matter. Why are apps Doodle Jump, Moron Test, Pocket God and other apps that have been in the top 50 for so long, manage to stay there?

    Not by luck, by marketing genius, and money.

    Be prepared to spend thousands a day on advertising if you wish to stay up there.

    Most games fall off the charts remarkably after they've been published under N&N

    Just getting into the top 50 in the first place is a huge feat!
  • JamesZeppelinJamesZeppelin Member Posts: 1,927
    @BB

    yes, those guys making 1-4k per day probably dont see it as 1-4k per day

    i'm sure its more like only $300 per day after expenses but, they know what it takes for that to be 300 per day for a year on three apps

    if i get in the top 25 i will empty my bank account to keep it up there lol

    once you have that you get all kinds of perks to take advantage of.... like more views for upcoming projects on the TA forms.

    previews on your next game.

    all kinds of stuff...but you gotta use those things
  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Member Posts: 1,114
    I think it sounds like you've given up on Bumps way too early.... the game has shown that it has potential, and just needs to be built upon.

    Angry Birds...with its 6.5 million downloads wasnt an instant hit, and took months before it hit the US top spot. And they didnt spend any money on advertising until after it had become a hit. So dont give up on your game just yet... at least give time to see how the update works out.

    Also, your game can still be re-featured in the future. Look on the longterm graphs on AppAnnie for Angry Birds, N.O.V.A, Fruit Ninja and especially Doodle Jump.... it shows when and where the app got featured, and each of those has seen numerous featured slots on the appstore since their release.

    If the game continues to make enough money to cover the costs, then I think you just need to keep plugging away with updates every now and then.... each time the game gets updated, and you add new features or content, it stands a new chance of being put up for a "Feature" slot.... and with each update, the game becomes even more of a good deal for new customers, and should build the products reputation further.

    But yup.... to sum all that up... its way too early to give up on Bumps, and there could still be plenty of life in it yet.

    Take time out... start a new project... and maybe put Bumps on a back burner for a while.... but I think it would be a mistake to completely write it off.
  • amigoniamigoni Member Posts: 78
    I think there is a lot of speculation here on marketing expense. We don't really know how much Angry Birds or Doodle Jump spend on marketing.

    What we do know is how we and most people buy applications. We go to the app store and check out N&N top 25 or top 50 paid or free in the categories that we are interested in. We look at reviews and if the reviews are 4+ we usually buy. Does this not describe the way that you bought 90% of your apps.

    This means that if your app makes it in the top 100 or top 50 or top 25 and you keep getting good reviews, your game will make it.

    I strongly believe that the reason bumps fell was because of the average rating. Your game must rate at 4+ stars or you are out quickly. You need lots of reviews and lots of good reviews. When you update your count goes back to 0. People trust what other people say about things when they don't know what they are buying.

    Moral of the story. A good game that doesn't crash that is fun to play, once it's featured in N&N and gets some exposure should make good money.

    If as game creators we make good entertainment, the only marketing we should worry about is the initial one to get into the N&N.
  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
    Hi Guys,

    A developer friend of mine had a banner on TA it cost a bomb and he saw 3 sales from it. I watched a video last night from the guy that made doodle Jump and he said he had spent money on advertising but didnt see any increase in sales. Not only do we not have the cash (we have to wait till late september before we see the $ for Bumps) but i don't think splashing loads of money around helps that much.

    If your high in the charts your visible and if your visible you will get sales.

    We have far from written off Bumps and i'm currently working on 1.2 (9 new extreme levels and sound on off button) before moving onto iPad.

    I know where your coming from with pro and the url to promote Lite but even if we wanted it we couldn't afford it yet.

    Darren.
  • reddotincreddotinc Member Posts: 653
    utopiangames said:
    i don't think splashing loads of money around helps that much.

    I'm sorry Darren, but spending money on advertising *cleverly* will ALWAYS help you. If it didn't then NO ONE would advertise, and there wouldn't be such a market for it. Splashing money will hardly ever pay off.. It's the work that goes on around that makes that marketing a success.

    // red.
  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
    I have something for you soon in terms of advertising, when its sorted will post back.

    I agree about the 4 stars and above we have 3/5 stars atm and 2 bad reviews at the top pf most helpful so.....

    Darren.
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    Darren,
    Don't forget that when you release a new update to the game, the reviews for previous versions will be "moved" to the "All Versions" tab. So when 1.1 is released there will be no reviews showing for "Current Version".

    I don't know about anyone else, but I hardly ever click on the All Versions review tab because I feel that those reviews are not very relevant to the new version (that I may potentially download).

    Also if you fix the crashing problems in 1.1, chances are that you will get a bunch of 4-5 start reviews, which new visitors will see by default.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    reddotinc said:
    I'm sorry Darren, but spending money on advertising *cleverly* will ALWAYS help you. If it didn't then NO ONE would advertise, and there wouldn't be such a market for it.

    When you make 70¢ per app, that doesn't leave much room for marketing. For example, a 1% click-through rate on a banner ad is normal. That means you'll have to show a banner ad to 100 people just to get someone to click it. Then, even if someone clicks the banner ad, that doesn't mean that they're going to buy it. The conversion rate can vary. If it's 1 out of 10 people, then you'll have to be paying less than 7¢ per click just to cover your marketing costs.

    That's highly unlikely.

    http://searchenginewatch.com/3629032

    So, what other marketing alternatives are there for app developers? Billboards? I thought about handing out fliers near the Staten Island Ferry. Even just to print the fliers could cost money. Then, I either have to pay someone to hand out the fliers or I have to waste the day standing around. So OK, I hand out 5000 fliers. Most of them will likely end up in the street behind me. How many sales would that lead to? A rough estimate, maybe 50 sales. Is that really the optimal use of my time, or would I do better by making another game or a better game?

    I have seen advertisements for regular video games, but I don't see advertisements for Angry Birds on buses or billboards. I don't see advertisements for apps either.

    The promotional copy for the Photics: Toolbox is a spoof on infomercials. I imagined what it would be like to make a commercial and broadcast it. I thought it was funny, but is it really profitable? I think a marketing blitz for a 99¢ would result in a loss. If I bump up the price to compensate, that would likely result in less sales from regular iTunes "foot traffic".
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    I am not talking about admob banners, handing out fliers, or any of that. I'm talking about URLs. I have seen people on this forum (TSB comes to mind) saying that they nearly doubled their sales by creating a lite version that automatically takes you to the full version in the appstore when you have completed a certain number of lite levels. I think Bumps would be perfect for that. When I made XMB free for a day through freeappaday.com it went to the top 5 of free apps. Bumps is WAY better than that game and a lite version will certainly get DLed a ton. A URL that automatically takes them to the full version would increase sales dramatically based on other peoples reported experience. I would also then raise the price to tier 2.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    scitunes said:
    A URL that automatically takes them to the full version would increase sales dramatically based on other peoples reported experience.

    That's where Pro comes in... and that's basically my marketing plan. HA HA!

    With Pro you get iAds, which I can modify to include house ads.
    With Pro you get hyperlinks, which can improve the effectiveness of "lite" versions.
    With Pro you get custom loading screens, to build brand awareness.

    It's unfortunate that it's so expensive.
  • BarkBarkCoBarkBarkCo Member Posts: 1,400
    @Photics, Is going Pro a near term plan for you?
  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Member Posts: 5,692
    Going back to the lite with url...some lites hurt sales of the full and some help i think last time i asked Chris at Chillingo it was split 50/50 have a lite or not so.....

    Darren.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    BarkBarkCo said:
    @Photics, Is going Pro a near term plan for you?

    Yes, I'm considering upgrading to Pro. I could make the jump later today or within the next few weeks. There are three main reasons why I hesitate and may not upgrade...

    1) The cost - will I make my money back? (I'm thinking yes, I can at least make the money back.)
    2) The cost - but what if Gendai Games drops the price of Pro? Do I get ripped off? (What if moderators get a free copy of Pro?)
    3) Another Puzzle - I created three puzzles for the iPad. It's pretty cool. Except, I might have made the last one too hard. I can't seem to solve it, so I'm not sure if it's possible. I like to focus on one big project at a time. Right now I'm working on Another Puzzle.
  • BarkBarkCoBarkBarkCo Member Posts: 1,400
    The trick with "lites" (look at me talking like I'm an expert...Hah!) is to make it enough of a tease to keep the player interested all the way to the end, and then finish with a big let down...

    Have a really cool animated intro to the "last level" with a "Continue" button at the end that just links you to the app store for Bumps full...
  • JamesZeppelinJamesZeppelin Member Posts: 1,927
    One huge aspect of marketing that people forget is that it is absolutely not about a direct dollar for dollar investment.

    Companies advertise on tv and can't link a single sale.

    It's about impressions and flooding.

    You can't trickle 100 dollars into click ads and then say I got only one download.

    Marketing works when you can't escape something. When it's so in your face it's the first thing you think of. And yes it is not cheap.

    There is no way to know how many sales angry birds gets from a TA banner.

    But...... Everywhere you go angry birds is there and in your face until you figure ....jeez I may as well try it.

    As I said in another post. Who would give unknown little crap import beer from Mexico a try. Most stores didn't even carry it.

    Now thanks to the most interesting man in the world a pretty large number of frat boys go right to the dos xx section.

    How many people downloaded that beer from the tv? Now how many people have seen that so many times they can't help but think of that guy in the beer isle.

    Stay thirsty my friends.
  • FranzKellerFranzKeller Member Posts: 517
    "nothing is over until we say it is!" - some movie

    Think positive and keep going. Make another game also that's even better!

    I don't know much about app store, but if it's anything like YouTube -
    Quality material will continue to have a flow of interest after the big rush caused by certain publicity

    And there can always be another rush later on,
    Especially if you keep promoting, which doesn't require $ on the web, just persistance

    I wish the pro membership were less expensive, but I'll just enjoy being an amateur for a bit
    ;-)
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    PG went all the to the top without advertising. (they didn't even get featured until they were in the top 50 paid) They don't advertise AT ALL, but they stay in the top because they have a cult following.
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