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GS or Stencyl???

creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
edited February 2012 in Miscellaneous
I am hug fan of GS. And using more than 1 year. Its really awesome software. Recently I google it and found about Stencyl and its also provide No Coding feature. I have confusion which one I use for my game. I am emotionally attached with GS forum. But I am not sure when they will launch native code so we solve loading and performance issue. Please suggest which one I am going to use.

NOTE: I am not marketing any of the game engine. I want to clear my confusion.


Thanks,
John
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Comments

  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    edited February 2012
    Well, I don't think we're allowed to talk about it on here. But ACTUALLY a Sous chef told me we are. But it's kinda low to GS.

    But in all honesty. 3 Months ago I was considering it. I was so sick of just some peoples attitudes, and being promised things that weren't happening.
    At this very moment if you knew both programs perfectly I would say Stencyl is probably better, especially since I don't think it's beta either.

    HOWEVER.. GS has really shocked me this year, they're taking huge leaps and bounds and delivering their promises. We're finally getting joints and the Lua Drop is going to happen no doubt about it.

    I would say why waste time re learning some other software when if you put the time into GS you could just be learning even more and end up making better games.

    I think GS is going to stand out from the rest. It's gonna be a great year for GS and i'm happy to be apart of it.

    Hope I didn't step on any toes ;)
  • mu-kowAPPSmu-kowAPPS Posts: 233Member
    stencyl is very different but seems more flexible/powerful for the most part. some things are harder to do, some things easier.

    why dont you try posting on the stencyl forums asking what people there think. since they use the tool every day. there are some prior GS users there too so maybe they will comment.
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    edited February 2012
    Yeah @mu-kowAPPS I read that @Photics is using it now.
  • creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
    @ozboybrain @ mu-kowAPPS thanks for you feedback. And yes I am planing to go with GS only. And I know lua drop will change GS totally. I am really excited for that.
    Is there someway can we find about release time of native code? Its easy for us to make planing. Because few game concepts are not going to work with current versions.

    I must say Bye Bye stencyl & Big Hug to GS..:)
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    It's happening this year but we don't know when..
  • creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
    I know it happening this year but its easy to make future planing if they are providing us particular time.
  • ozboybrianozboybrian Posts: 2,102PRO
    I said they where getting better, not perfect :P jks.

    It's better to know it's gonna happen this year, then say June and not to have it come due to unforeseen circumstances or for you to leave thinking it'll be too late then for it come out next month.
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    Hey John,
    My personal argument would be GS is pretty much bug free and an excellent community where stencylworks has a developing community and buggy software thats only just out of the pond... Although it may be cheaper... Thats only because they don't offer free to publish...
    First of all.. I think stencyl uses lua too...
    But as Brian said... Im delighted with GameSalad this year, They've kept on all there promises and brought us everything we want, Even CUSTOM SPLASHSCREENS!
    Although I hope GS will get cheaper or at leads change its pricing methods, But it WAS SAID Exactly... And I quote "

    @LeonardDeveloper - honestly there are likely a thousand similar threads about pricing changes floating around - but you're more than welcome to open one if you have something new to add. It's on our radar.
  • LeonardDeveloperLeonardDeveloper Posts: 4,630Member
    @fbs
    Thanks mate! Was unsure...
  • mu-kowAPPSmu-kowAPPS Posts: 233Member
    SW has some work to be done, but their progress seems way faster than GS. They may be sporting a new physics engine with their support of android (this spring?) that allows for pixel collision shapes, concave terrain, destructible terrain soft/squishy objects, fluid and really nice performance.

    I also think they will be supporting flurry analytics, admob/ad whirl/universal builds

    I think GS biggest problem is the LUA. I think they will be able to pick up the pace once that is gone.

    Who will win in the end?

    ...who knows
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    I tried Stencyl and didn't really like it ... in fairness i didn't put the time into it but i didn't want to, i know GS well, i like GS and i like whats coming .... Just wish those things would come a bit quicker as they are slow on introducing new features
  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 10,380Member, Sous Chef
    just to make sure this stays on topic. it is fine to talk about competitors, it is not ok to talk about HOW to use competitor's products, they have their own forums for that.
  • creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
    Yes GS games are great. Everyone put their 100% still GS Apps known as low quality apps only because of loading and performance issue. They have to take this seriously because its affect GS & GS Users. And stop giving other updates and first need to focus on native coding.
  • mu-kowAPPSmu-kowAPPS Posts: 233Member
    @sss what physics library does GS use? Or rather, which one will be used after LUA is removed, that way we can have an idea of what sorts of new features will be possible after LUA drop.
  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasPosts: 2,870Member, Sous Chef
    edited April 2014
    Call me crazy, but one of the things i like most about GameSalad is the fact that they are NOT on PC. Just my personal opinion, but PC's suck. Well, I mean Windows sucks. Windows 8 is coming out soon, and they have this thing that fixes your computer for you when it crashes, or has some fatal error. What that tells me is they are shipping a operating system that they know is going to crash, or have some fatal error. I have an Alienware, but I only use it for playing video games, that's it. That's all they are good for. It's basically a $2400 XBox. PC's have done nothing but cost me money, and Mac has done nothing but make me money.

    Stencyl is confusing.

    Again, just my opinion.

    I have no friends. I'm a loser that makes video games all day. Will you be my friend?

  • creativeappscreativeapps Posts: 1,771Member
    @SSS got your point. Thanks for providing informative post. Yes we are aware with that gamesalad working on removing lua completely. We just want to know approximate time period. Many of us choosing game development as carrier and not for just hobby. So if you provide us approximate time line we are thankful to you. We are working as small developer team and we have lots of projects pending and we are going to decide our future plan on this major updates. So please try to understand our situation and let us know.

    Thanks,
    John
  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef
    Im not gonna get to deep into the whats better argument. But…. Just think of this. I have yet see a complex game for iOS made with Stencyl. Maybe its out there maybe not. Just saying, All the loading times and performance issues have not really hit stencyl yet because people have not yet pushed it beyond its limits. I personally dont like the block system. Everything is far to spread out and just makes it all confusing. BTW Stencyl complies to Code that can be edited and added to etc... but I believe its still wrapped around Lua or flash or something. I don't think it compiles to actual native Xcode. I could be wrong of course. Again im half way ignorant on the subject. I tried it a few times and did not really like it.

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • GraphicWarehouseGraphicWarehouse Posts: 927Member
    i am a pro user at stencyl and i have to say its amazing, im working on an app to publish with chillingo and @tenrdrmer you can edit your game in xcode, make an xcode project of your game ,and publish in xcode
  • ShadowMoonShadowMoon Posts: 146Member
    Stencyl
    - Better Interface
    - More features (joins, poly collision,..more)
    - Stable
    - Share codes online

    Gamesalad
    - Easy Coding (thats why i stay with it)

    For God's sake, gamesalad team please remake GS interface. I spent most of time on clicking and placing graphics.
  • HoneyTribeStudiosHoneyTribeStudios Posts: 1,792Member
    I've been using GS for a while so I have a lot of familiarity with it. I also went through a tutorial on Stencyl and Unity recently. Really, all these SDKs seem good to me with Unity being the most advanced and stable having been out the longest.

    The most interesting thing about Stencyl is the ability to add custom code/fiddle around with it in xcode. So you can implement any 3rd party tool/network you want. (I think)

    I like the direction GS has been going lately in terms of overall quality, communication and features. The QA seems to have improved a lot with new builds. And, for example, the implementation for pro users of playhaven is so easy and seamless - it's really well intergrated. Of course I'm assuming the accounting part of it is set up well. We'll soon see!

    I'd hope they go further in that direction and give us more technical info and advice, answering all tech questions directly. And also add more flexibility to creator so we can work more quickly and easily. And if 1.0 can give the performance increases that we all want - that wil be great.

    Give me a buzz if you need some original music in your games.

  • PhoticsPhotics Posts: 4,172Member
    @ozboybrian
    Yeah @mu-kowAPPS I read that @Photics is using it now.
    Yes, I started using StencylWorks. It's been a very difficult transition. But unfortunately, I don't like the direction GameSalad has been going. It's been a vicious cycle of waiting for future updates, and ultimately being disappointed in those updates. I don't enjoy stating that. As the author of The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook, it's bad for book sales.

    After reading this thread, I decided to finish my GameSalad vs Stencyl post...
    http://photics.com/gamesalad-vs-stencyl

    Basically, I hate having to start over. I'm a master of GameSalad. Yet, no matter how skilled I get with the software, I cannot advance beyond the allowed features. With the speed of GameSalad development, I don't feel it's worth $499 a year. Game Center has been out for about 1 1/2 years and we still don't have support for achievements. With StencylWorks, I'm the master of my own fate. If my game succeeds or fails, I won't have to wonder... maybe it would have done better with achievements... maybe it would have done better with multiplayer. With StencylWorks, I don't feel limited by the software. Actually, it's the reverse. I feel like I have to stay more alert because Jon is always adding new features.
    @LeonardDeveloper
    My personal argument would be GS is pretty much bug free and an excellent community where stencylworks has a developing community and buggy software thats only just out of the pond... Although it may be cheaper... Thats only because they don't offer free to publish...
    Actually, I think differently about this.

    1 - GameSalad too has had serious battles with technical issues. There's a mix sense of joy and dread with each update... as I have to wonder if the update will break my games. I think both have the same solution. I found that my GameSalad games were more resistant to update errors when I was using better "programming". I think this is the same for StencylWorks. Just because a block can be dragged into a spot doesn't mean it really belongs there.

    2 - I think this community has grown more hostile. Many of the friendly people left for other communities. I actually feel more relaxed chatting on the Stencyl forum because it feels more mature there. I think the GameSalad Direct rift and the decision to make GameSalad free for iOS publishing changed the community in negative ways. However, there are a lot more yellow posts around here. GameSalad is taking a more engaged role in community relations. The mere fact that this thread exists shows a strength of GameSalad.

    3 - Flash publishing with StencylWorks is free. It's the same story as with GameSalad. You just have to pay money to remove the branding. But unlike GameSalad, it's just a one-time fee to remove StencylWorks branding from Flash games. Heh, unfortunately, Flash is a dying medium.
    @SlickZero
    Stencyl is confusing, and I don't like that interface of puzzle blocks. And I can't stand to watch their videos, after about a minute I have to turn it off because of the voice.
    I actually like Stencyl because I can see the code. It makes for a better learning experience. As for the videos, I am working on an interactive textbook for StencylWorks.
    @tenrdrmer
    Im not gonna get to deep into the whats better argument. But…. Just think of this. I have yet see a complex game for iOS made with Stencyl. Maybe its out there maybe not. Just saying, All the loading times and performance issues have not really hit stencyl yet because people have not yet pushed it beyond its limits. I personally dont like the block system. Everything is far to spread out and just makes it all confusing. BTW Stencyl complies to Code that can be edited and added to etc... but I believe its still wrapped around Lua or flash or something. I don't think it compiles to actual native Xcode. I could be wrong of course. Again im half way ignorant on the subject. I tried it a few times and did not really like it.
    From what I've read, you can actually use Xcode to make customizations. I haven't tried it. Heh, because if I was that good at Xcode I wouldn't need StencylWorks or GameSalad. HA! Yet, what's awesome is that I can see ActionScript or Objective-C code just by clicking a tab. There is something of a "Secret Sauce" thing on the StencylWorks server for iOS games. I'm not too sure of the details. Regardless, it's way more open than GameSalad is right now.

    If GameSalad allowed the community to create and share custom behaviors, I think it would be better for the software.

    I think the best thing about StencylWorks is that it should get GameSalad moving. Now there is serious competition! And really, there doesn't have to be a single winner. Considering that thousands — even millions — of dollars can be made with good apps, it's not too expensive to maintain a subscription for StencylWorks and GameSalad.
  • MediaBrosMediaBros Posts: 26Member, PRO
    edited February 2012
    Slickzero
    "Stencyl is confusing, and I don't like that interface of puzzle blocks. And I can't stand to watch their videos, "

    lol i love that video

  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
    @MediaBros ... You shouldn't of put that video on here, they have their own forums to discuss how to use it. Discussing features and comparing is fine but things like pricing and how to use should not be discussed here
  • LiquidGameworksLiquidGameworks Anchorage, AKPosts: 956Member, Sous Chef
    I too have considered moving to Stencyl. Part of this is that I joined GS last spring, when there was an epic roadmap with joints, multiplayer, better UI, GC achievements, and Android scheduled for summer/fall 2011. I was excited, and am still a little disillusioned about the pacing of GS progress. I'm not sure what you're talking about @LeonardDeveloper.... GS bug free? Keep up on promises? Really, the only thing that came out of the roadmap intact was Android, and that was pretty much unusable for the first month. But this is the nature of developing programs. It's one thing to stick with the software you know, but you have to see it for what it is. From my looking at Stencyl since October, they have steadily stayed on schedule (to a point) in their releases. I have no idea about bugginess of stencil, but it does appear they do lots of minor bug fixes often, which is really what I want to see.

    Reasons I'm sticking with GS:

    1) I like the behavior method of GS as opposed to blocks by Stencyl.
    2) If GS really does compile to LUA by Spring, that'll be great.
    3) I still have 6 months on pro membership :P

    However, there are lots of things that GS needs to do to further game development quality. Besides all the stuff like GC achievements (I'm confused, why is this so hard?) and joints (Yes Beefy!), something like snap to grid would make game production probably 400% (scientific, btw) faster. I've had the mechanisms for doing an RPG for months... But I can't piece together a 10K by 10k world one tile at a time... without snap to grid.

    GS, you've got your monetization going (well, not the one that counts admob). Please focus on Creator UI and game engine so we don't have to even think about competitors :)
  • MediaBrosMediaBros Posts: 26Member, PRO
    Gotchya ;-)
  • SparkyidrSparkyidr Posts: 2,033Member
    edited February 2012
    As a user of both GS and Stencyl, here are my 2p's worth of 'real world' thoughts I have.

    If you are sitting here whinging about how GS doesn't do this, and doesn't do that, and the performance is rubbish, and using the editor is a pain in the arse.....go and use Stencyl for a month (or any of the other SDKs out there for that matter). I guarantee you will have a new found respect for what GS does after that month.

    That's not to say Stencyl isn't great...it really is a very nice tool to work with once you get used to it (like anything there is a learning curve, son't expect to pick it up and be flying with it in 5 mins). But it's not a case of the "grass being greener" on the Stencyl side of the fence as opposed to the GS side. Both tools have their own quirks, and both tools have their own advantages over the other.

    It's true...GS is fiddly at times to work with. So is Syencyl. Although the fiddly things are different things. ;) But like I say, there is a learning curve with everything. I would imaging a long term Stencyl user would find the same struggles if he/she moves over to GS.

    All that being said, there are some cool things about Stencyl.
    1. It has a tile editor, which can make creating levels for certain styles of games (platformers etc) much easier than in GS
    2. The loading performance is really good compared to GS. I assume once LUA is out of the picture, GS should see similar results.
    3. Engine performance is slightly better than in GS I think. Although there are certain things NOT to do in an iOS game to make sure you are not killing your frame rate (direct drawing of txt to the screen is one example)
    4. Custom fonts built into Stencyl...awesome! nuff said.
    5. GC achievements, joints, writeable "list" attributes that work like a single column table (nice)
    6. The ability to import behaviours and logic and even actors from their online sharing portal

    There are of course some things it does less well
    1. You need to think more like a coder when using Stencyl, and less like a designer. GS really really holds your hand through a lot of the more complex stuff and handles more in the background hidden from you.
    2. There are quite a few quirks with behaviours you can build, that will work in flash, but fail miserably in iOS....and Stencyl doesn't always make these differences clear. This has caused me a bit of grief on a number of occasions as I have been playing with it. (Although the forum is very very helpful...much like it is here at times)
    3. No exporting for Android or HTML5 as of yet

    In summery.. is GC better than Stencyl?
    Is Stencyl better than GS?
    Neither. They are both quite different tools, that just happen to do pretty much the same job.

    I am using Stencyl for my latest game...I may well use GS for my next if GS does it better.

    edit... Just too add re: editing the xcode project once it's returned back to you after a build.
    I am not 100% sure that is the case. I think once it's built to xcode, you can't edit after the fact or it will fail codesigning (I may well be wrong here)
    but..... you can put "code blocks" into behaviours as you build the game.
  • They are discussing this thread on stencyls website, lol

    http://community.stencyl.com/index.php?topic=7794.msg49171#new
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    Thought I'd chime in with: well said, @Sparkyidr . :-)

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  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasPosts: 2,870Member, Sous Chef
    edited February 2012
    Sparky makes good points. I guess what it comes down to is whatever tool works best for you. Stencyl is pretty cool with all the things it can do, and so is GameSalad. I'm not into making Flash games, because Flash is on it's way out, eventually. No top tier games have been made with Stencyl yet, but I'm sure once it gets into the hands of a good developer, it's just as capable as GameSalad is in the hands of a good developer.

    I can't get used to the interface, I just don't care for the puzzle block style. That's just me, though. If it works for you, then you should use it. If it doesn't, then don't. It's one of many tools out there now. It's been said many times already, it's not the tool, it's the person wielding the tool. If you make good games, you can make a good game with Stencyl, or GameSalad, or if you make crappy games, it won't matter which tool you decide to make your crap with.

    I have no friends. I'm a loser that makes video games all day. Will you be my friend?

This discussion has been closed.