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Starting A Startup

Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
Hey everyone, I'm looking to start a startup with some other folks here. I know what you're thinking, these things never work, blah, blah, blah. The mission of the startup is a lot simpler than others may be. We are only doing contract work. Here's the breakdown of people I'm looking for and what percentage they will get.

Outstanding Shares - 40,000,000

1 Developer - 10M Shares
1 Designer/Graphics Producer - 10M Shares
1 Music Producer/Game Writer* - 10M Shares
Me* 10M Shares

Music Producer/Game Writer - Will be responsible for writing out a clear and descriptive game idea for the client and rest of team. Also will be responsible for producing any sounds or music effects required in the games.

Me - I will be run it. I will secure client relationships for the company.

Plan - only client work. We can avoid the hassles of the app stores, corporate bank accounts, etc.
Fun Titles - These are purely for fun. You pick your own :) Might be a good addition to resume.
Developer - (CDO) Chief Development Officer, Senior Engineer, (CIO) Chief Intelligence Officer
Designer - (CGO) Chief Graphics Officer, Senior Designer
Music/Game Writer - Producer, Senior Writer
Me - Taking the CEO slot :)

Looking forward to seeing the reactions, feel free to pm.

Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

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Comments

  • DhondonDhondon Posts: 717Member
    I think a lead artist would be more useful than a Chief Graphics Officer (whatever that is).
    You're taking a huge chunk of the pie. Got years of experience to justify that?
  • JamesWEJamesWE Posts: 19Member
    Interesting - If I may leave a bit of feedback?

    Doing contract work only, means the value of your company has a ceiling. Creating IP that you own will be the only way your company and shares will gain any real value. (you could do both)

    If you want to avoid corporate bank accounts I'd say you want to avoid stock options/ shares/vesting stock etc. (you trying to avoid tax or something?)

    A senior programmer could deal with the 'hassle of the app store' in his/her sleep.

    If you are going to secure client relationships then you'll want to be attending WWDC, GDC, DICE etc to build relationships with publishers? IF that's the case then you'd need some capital to spend on such investments.
    If not, its still possible, but you'll need to get in touch with a great PR business and with that in mind you are going to need an example of how great your product is right?
    Got any demo's?

    I'm not trying to bring you down, just throwing some thoughts out there. Its easy to start a business but to actually BE a business is another story.
  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,598Member, PRO
    edited February 2013
    JamesWE said:


    A senior programmer could deal with the 'hassle of the app store' in his/her sleep.

    Yep. I think you are more likely to do better by publishing your own title in the first instance. Get a score on the board and settle in your production team then approach/seek clients.
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @lycettebros @JamesWE @dhondon Thanks for the feedback! I understand that making our own games could be more beneficial because it would add value to the company. But the issue with making app stores games is that you are basically rolling the dices with your game. Plus it's a hassle to manage monthly payments to all four people involved.

    Doing client works provides -
    A) Immediate Reward/Review
    B) Likely more Reward/Revenue than you will make releasing a game yourself.

    My experience - I have directed, developed, and created a variety of games available on the app store, kindle, and the gs marketplace. I understand the economics of it, and have even done client work myself. Trust me, client work is much more profitable. While building a game internally for ourselves is something that could be in the pipeline, it's not really feasible right now.

    This is by no means a full time job. It's more of a weekend job. But if you want to try and make a little extra cash on the side, this might be the way to do it.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • SnapFireStudiosSnapFireStudios Posts: 1,603Member
    Interesting idea. Is there any particular reason why you lumped the 'Sound' job with the 'Idea/Writing' job? I'm just curious.

    Best of luck,
    - Thomas

    Ignore females. Acquire currency.

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @SnapFireStudios great question! It's because we need a sound person for the team, but sound isn't that essential. Neither is idea writing. Sure, they both greatly help, but they aren't as valued as graphics or coding.

    If I combine them together into one job, it less complicates things by having less people, plus a good idea writer knows what kind of sound they want in a game, and vice versa. It's really good to have the sound and idea integrated. Does this answer it?

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • SnapFireStudiosSnapFireStudios Posts: 1,603Member
    Yep, that make sense. Good luck finding someone who'll do both. ;)

    - Thomas

    Ignore females. Acquire currency.

  • lycettebroslycettebros Posts: 1,598Member, PRO
    Yes @poisenden you are right, no doubt about it commercial projects make more money sooner. They also can be more complicated and if they go wrong informal teams can collapse around them very fast leaving the CEO in a pile of left overs.

    I know that if I was signing up with a bunch of people who are essentially strangers and going into a client job I'd have some sleepless nights (maybe that says more about me).

    Doing a 'test' run project before the real thing at least sorts out the team and how serious they are. Just suggestions.
    I wish your venture all the best.
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @lycettebros Thanks for the feedback, I'll explore that.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    I think we are going to start with a small client to get integrated and move to larger clients after that.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • GraphicWarehouseGraphicWarehouse Posts: 927Member
    My biggest problem in this situation is how much value do you bring to the table? I can code, I can do art, I can get by on the little I know about music, and I can make deals (anybody can) so what is it that I get for joining the group? It sounds like I get 1/4th the profit and a couple of people to take the stress of code and sound off, or art and sound.

    Just to be clear I don't have time right now to join but for others interested, what dealmaking clients do you have access to and how much would on average you make from a job.

    Lastly, I thought you were Mr.Marketer with 300k downloads of your game so why do you not want to put on a good quality game, then you market it and justify the 25% and make some dough. (I could be wrong about you being good about marketing but that is what I heard)
  • DhondonDhondon Posts: 717Member
    poisenden said:

    This is by no means a full time job. It's more of a weekend job. But if you want to try and make a little extra cash on the side, this might be the way to do it.

    Who would hire a team that only work weekends?
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @dhondon bc you don't know how to code, and your willing to pay top dollar for someone that does.
    @MJMDesign You're getting 1/4th the profit because your getting 1/4th the work. I add value by getting clients and organizing it. Also, the appstore business sucks. Take the top 50 best made game salad games and I bet half didn't even make the $100 dev fee back.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • GraphicWarehouseGraphicWarehouse Posts: 927Member
    Really the app store is that bad? Too bad it got overpopulated.
  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    poisenden said:

    @SnapFireStudios great question! It's because we need a sound person for the team, but sound isn't that essential. Neither is idea writing. Sure, they both greatly help, but they aren't as valued as graphics or coding.

    I was shaking my head at that comment so much it almost fell off....

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • ChakkuChakku Posts: 1,513Member
    poisenden said:

    Also, the appstore business sucks. Take the top 50 best made game salad games and I bet half didn't even make the $100 dev fee back.

    @poisenden
    If those statistics are true, maybe I shouldn't finish work on my game(s)... :(

    Chakku
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @gyroscope I personally don't think sound makes or breaks a game. Bad coding or bad graphics on the other hand do.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • gyroscopegyroscope I am here.Posts: 6,577Member, Sous Chef, PRO
    edited February 2013

    @poisenden I agree that with bad programming (there's no coding to be done in GSC, by the way, despite some people's insistence) or bad graphics there is much more chance of spoiling a game than with sounds/music, but sounds and music are still an important factor. And I think it's counter-productive to consider them lesser importance than graphics (or programming). A great programmed game with slick graphics can be made even greater with decent music and sound effects, but still have a negative effect if badly done; that's all I'm saying.

    Also considering idea writing as not as important struck me as being particularly strange: if by "idea writing" you mean coming up with the game's concept, gameplay, theme, etc., then this is fundamentally important and shouldn't be dismissed as not very important so easily.

    ""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork        temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @gyroscope Not to brag, but my games have done remarkably well with so-so sound.

    Here's why the sound and idea writing positions are less valuable than graphics or coding -
    1) You can buy a soundtrack for cheap (marketplace, other website, musician, etc.)
    2) Ideas take less time. I can go workout and simply think about ideas and come up with 1 or 2 solid ones in half an hour. How is that equivalent to hours or days programming/designing?

    Obviously an idea takes more than half an hour to perfect, but general game ideas aren't that difficult. Do you see my point?
    Now, I don't want people to feel undervalued, so i combined the two roles.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • PixelMetalPixelMetal Posts: 283Member
    edited February 2013
    gyroscope said:

    poisenden said:

    @SnapFireStudios great question! It's because we need a sound person for the team, but sound isn't that essential. Neither is idea writing. Sure, they both greatly help, but they aren't as valued as graphics or coding.

    I was shaking my head at that comment so much it almost fell off....
    It must've rolled right next to mine. We can roll our eyes together. Sound is just as important as visuals, and do just as much in setting the mood. Sound/Music is the ONE thing I'm shelling out real money for on my GS project. Graphics folks (of which I am one) are easy to come by - real musicians are a whole other story. And I don't know about you, but the last thing I'd want is a musician being distracted by having to write documentation as well, which is typically the Game (not Graphic) Designer's thing.

    I suppose if you're happy with generic library music, that cost could be avoided, with the end result being a game with generic library music.

    A couple things:
    There's no point in distributing shares for a weekend-only "company."
    You say you've done games that are on various stores, but not what games, not what their exposure has been, and not what profits, if any, they have made.
    Do you mean Graphic Designer, not Graphics Designer? Because Graphics Designer? That's not a thing.
    Looks to me like everyone else is doing the work. What would you be doing? Marketing? Public Relations? That certainly doesn't deserve an equal share, as it's nowhere near equal work. What REAL value do you bring? In what state will the company be founded? Who pays company-related bills?

    Most importantly: WHO are you? WHY should anyone work with you? WHAT is your track record? HOW would you get these mysterious clients?

    If the idea was decided upon in half an hour, you're so doing it wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin. "Let's make a sci-fi shooter" is easy to say. Now, make it unique so it stands out from the 99.9% of shovelware in every app store. Oops! That takes serious effort. Ideas are worthless - executing them is a different story.

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @PixelMetal
    1) My game is Stick Run. Number 1 in 3 countries. Over a quarter of a million free downloads.
    2) The shares are just a fun aspect, but might be needed if the company were to expand somehow.
    3) I would be managing, organizing, and working the client relations.
    4) Company won't be legally founded until we have enough revenue that we can take it to a point that it needs legal protection. Obviously we would create an LLC and go from there.
    5) There are no company related bills. If there were (aka LLC fee, taxes, website, etc.) it would be taken from revenue before anyone is paid.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • PixelMetalPixelMetal Posts: 283Member
    edited February 2013
    poisenden said:

    @PixelMetal
    1) My game is Stick Run. Number 1 in 3 countries. Over a quarter of a million free downloads.
    2) The shares are just a fun aspect, but might be needed if the company were to expand somehow.
    3) I would be managing, organizing, and working the client relations.
    4) Company won't be legally founded until we have enough revenue that we can take it to a point that it needs legal protection. Obviously we would create an LLC and go from there.
    5) There are no company related bills. If there were (aka LLC fee, taxes, website, etc.) it would be taken from revenue before anyone is paid.

    So...you've never done this before, then? Because unless I'm mistaken (I'm not), shares are supposed to have value.

    Without numbers, your (free) game could be #1 in 10 countries and it would still be irrelevant. A free game doing okay != people will pay for the next one.

    You also might want to get more than one game (and not based on a template) under your belt before trying to start a company with, uh, people you don't know on an internet forum. For your own sake.
  • DhondonDhondon Posts: 717Member
    edited February 2013
    poisenden said:

    @dhondon bc you don't know how to code, and your willing to pay top dollar for someone that does.

    What I was thinking was; why should anyone choose a dev team that works 2 a week, instead of 5? And most people will have things coming up in weekends ( girlfriends, kids, gardening, partys...). I doubt that you will have the whole team available for work each weekend.

    And equal pay per projects sounds like an bad idea for the coder(s) and the graphics artist(s). These are the things that usually takes the longest time in a project.



  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @dhondon the company is based on equal pay to make it fair. Sound and idea writing is also important.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • PixelMetalPixelMetal Posts: 283Member
    poisenden said:

    @dhondon the company is based on equal pay to make it fair. Sound and idea writing is also important.

    Are you using a different definition of "fair" than is usual?
  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @PixelMetal No, but I really appreciate you asking.

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

  • GraphicWarehouseGraphicWarehouse Posts: 927Member
    Lets stop and just comment if you would like to join. @poisenden I think your plan if fair now that you have cleared it all up for me, I am really surprised that nobody has taken up a position yet.
  • DhondonDhondon Posts: 717Member
    edited February 2013
    MjMDesign said:

    Lets stop and just comment if you would like to join. @poisenden I think your plan if fair now that you have cleared it all up for me, I am really surprised that nobody has taken up a position yet.

    No, its not fair to an coder, musician or game artist.
    Unless they can just call them self senior without any previous experience.

  • Team6LabsTeam6Labs Posts: 541Member
    @dhondon can you clarify?

    Revive Apps Getting Low Downloads - http://www.AppReviver.com

This discussion has been closed.