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iOS graphics related questions

First off, hello! I'm new here and to coding, so I apologize for the n00b questions.

I am trying to get started on my first game app and I am confused about the resolutions and Resolution Independence.

I have been creating my graphics at the top resolution for the iPad Retina: 2048 x 1536.

When I create my project file and select Resolution Independence then the display size is 1024x768 and so are the scenes. When I import my graphics they are double the screen size.

Question 1: If I change display size to 2048x1536 nothing happens. If I then go and change Scene size then it goes blackout with the gray boundaries remaining at 1024x768. Do I just need to change my graphics manually within GS to 1024x768?

Question 2: Will GS create graphics for iPhone 5 / iPhone 4S etc on its own? iPad versions are simple since one is 2x the other but it gets complicated when you bring other iDevices. I read here in the forums that Apple rejects iPhone 5 apps that do not fit the screen completely. Any advice on what I should be aware of?

Question 3: I'm using GameSalad on Windows 7. Does this mean I cannot export to iOS from here? Is it possible to create my project on Windows and just switch to OS X for the final export?

Many thanks and I apologize if my questions have been answered before. I have been trying to read the forums but I keep getting more confused.

Comments

  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    All good.

    Resolution independence means use one high res image GS takes care of the rest.

    Do not make images that big ever - you need to learn about image sizes and memory usage first. Perhaps read the forum a bit searching for image optimisation and image sizes. No bigger than 1024 x 1024.

    Are you importing graphics by say - dragging them on to the stage? If so there is your problem. Create actors first, by dragging the image in to the actor area.

    iPhone 5 / iPhone 4S projects are in my own opinion done best individually and to their exact specs at the moment. Look for Universal Builds to cover that off.

    You can make the game and publish it - but you will need a mac to create the iOS viewer, sign the app or do Adhoc builds. If you are developing for iOS please have at least a Mac - iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, and an iPhone 5 so you can test on these devices - that may sound ridiculous - but I have 6 iPhones and an iPad and I test on all of them that I can. But borrow devices off mates if you have to - test. You can't just build on a machine and then expect it to run on so many different devices. Sure Gamesalad helps you do this - but it's not a magic bullet.

    Please read the text and view the videos in the Gamesalad Cookbook first - have a look on YouTube for gamesalad tutorials too. Search here first before asking. People do not appreciate lazy behaviour round here with lazy-web questions. Everything you have asked has been answered in these forums time and time again.

    Hope this helps getting you started and heading in the right direction :)
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    Thanks matarua for the response. :)

    My backgrounds are at 2048x1536 and yes I am dragging them on to the stage. I thought that for retina they had to be that big. Truthfully I'd prefer to stick with 1024x768 but won't the images get fuzzy if they get resized upwards by GS? Isn't that why the limit was upped to 2048 for importing images in?

    Thanks for the 'Universal Builds' term, I had been searching for Resolution Independence for a while now and couldn't find the appropriate posts. Now I've found videos + posts to study.

    I have an old Macbook Pro (late 2007) which is getting rather slow hence me preferring to work on my Windows 7 laptop until I can upgrade. I have an iPhone 3GS & 4S, an iPad 2 and my neighbor has the iPad retina.

    I was reluctant to post initially because I didn't want to get criticized for being lazy. I have been reading cookbook / manual and forum all day today. These were questions that I came across while reading the cookbook + manual, I tried to clarify them in the forum but was searching for wrong terms. My apologies.

    Thanks again!
  • JSprojectJSproject Posts: 730Member
    @lkmad
    With resolution independence checked (which is what you want since it is now a requirement from Apple to provide retina graphics) you design your images at double the resolution you want them to be displayed in. After importing the images in GS the dimensions of any actor generated from the images will be half of the dimensions of the imported image file (this is what you want). What GS will do when you do an adhoc or final build for the app store is to automatically produce 1x sized images to display on non-retina devices. Your 2x sized images will be used on retina devices.

    So, if you want to have an image that fills the whole screen on the IPAD then you should design and use 2048x1536 images. That also means that if you instead would use a 1024x768 image as full size background then GS would produce a 512x368 sized image of that for non-retina devices. The image would be automatically stretched to the full size of the screen which would look really crappy (since your then displaying the image at half of its intended resolution).
    matarua said:


    Do not make images that big ever... No bigger than 1024 x 1024.

    So...that is just plain wrong :)
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    Just don't drag images on stage like that too - 2048 x 2048 images are fine for the latest and greatest iPad but not anything else really. If you do an image 2048 x 1536 you are using 2048 x 2048 worth of memory. I have discussed this technique recently if you look at tiling backgrounds that should help.

    Again - do not drag your images on to the stage - drag them to the actors box - create new actors - once you do this they will scale perfectly to the right size (half size) and you will see what I mean.

    Do the Cookbook - that covers this off http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/tutorials/1/parts/1

    When you get a couple of page in...

    http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/tutorials/1/parts/17
    Go here and look at the bottom screen - it says in the actor panel "Drag your image here" and then on the right it says "Drag your behaviours here" - that's inside the actor where you place your image. You can bypass this by copying an image straight to the actor list.

    Tonnes of Gold Tips and great advice in there. Even about graphic optimisation.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    @js.dev that's fine for iPad 4 - but not for iPhone 3GS. The images should be tiled in your background for optimisation. If this iPad only - and you limit it to only the latest iPads, sure, go make big backgrounds. He was also asking about universal builds so you seem to have forgotten that part of the discussion? 1024x1024 is the max size for an image for all devices. I try to be pixel perfect and clear as crystal on everything I do so I have very high standards for graphic quality and optimisation.
  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,909Member
    edited July 2013
    @matarua you have no idea what you're talking about please stop spreading mis information. apple requires all apps to be retina now so if you want to make an iPad app you need to use the size image he has created. I don't use windows version but I know what you're talking about as my son was using the windows version and I switched him to the Mac version because of such issues. The Mac version auto scales the images to the correct size for the scene size. Maybe another windows user knows how to get auto scale to work. You could always resize the actor to half the size. And do yourself a favor and don't take advice from matarua.

    Plus the iPad 3 is retina too.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    @FryingBaconStudios - I Never ever ever have I said you should not do the app at retina display level. Read it slowly so you can understand. He's dragging images straight on stage - when you do that they come in at a wacky size. He's not making an actor first. Before you flame me and now I understand why some people on here really don't get on with you - you don't read things correctly and are offensive out of the block. You sound a bit older - you have a child so get some maturity please. Grow up.

    Things I have stated - do not use images bigger than 1024 square for a universal build. Tile your images to achieve this.

    That means a 1024 square image makes a 512 square image in Gamesalad - to be as efficient as possible on the iPad and still be good for a universal build I would do six 1024 x 512 images and tile them.

    They would shrink in Gamesalad to half - that is 512 x 256. Much less memory use and waste you get with a 2048 x 1536 (1024 x 768) image.

    Lay your scenes out with tables and it's easy as.

    I have said this three times now - don't drag actors on to the main stage. Make actors with them - then they scale correctly (retina size images half in size). That's the problem.

    I made these mistakes ages ago so I am here to help this person along. So why don't you do the same with your wealth of knowledge. Instead of putting me down. Be a guru and help people.
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    @js.dev Yes that was my understanding of it too from reading forums and articles but my Windows GS version wasn't doing that auto scale thing that @FryingBaconStudios mentioned. That was actually where my confusion came from. I am going to have to switch to Mac as I'm also lacking the option to preview the game in different Resolutions. Truthfully until I saw the youtube videos for Universal Builds I had no clue I could do that! It is all starting to make sense now! I need to upgrade my OS X to Mountain Lion (still stuck at Snow Leopard) and will try again.

    @matarua Dude. Enough! You aren't helping me. You are confusing me. Windows & Mac versions are different. It's great that you quote from the cookbook but what does that have to do with my Windows version not auto scaling things and me missing a bunch of options. Were you aware of that?! Please just 'help' someone else. I left the forums yesterday feeling awful for having the 'audacity' to ask for help. The Forum is called GameSalad 101, not ask for help after you received a PhD in GameSalad. I know some questions may be asked over and over but it's not because everyone is lazy. There's so many different opinions in the forums and sometimes not knowing *what* to search for is hindering your efforts. Other times, people like you give misleading answers. The cookbook is great but even that has a disclaimer: "This video provides a brief overview of an older version of Creator. We're hard at work on updating this content - coming soon!" It's also not updated for iPad Retina: http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/tutorials/1/parts/50

    I am designing primarily for the iPad. In today's world I'd be foolish to not make it universal because I am too worried about people like you jumping down my throat for asking a question. I did your version of creating an actor, guess what... IT DOESN'T FIX IT. I am *NOT* going to tile my background. You are assuming my game's bg can be tiled. Don't assume things, ASK. My game is a point and click adventure game, did you see any of those with tiled bg's? Oh Forest scene, I know! I'll just have a rock tiled 50 times behind the scene.

    The reason I wanted to use GameSalad was because it seemed to be targeted towards people with no coding experience. We all have to start somewhere. I shouldn't have to defend myself in the first place because you're so aggressive with your opinions. I can understand being sick seeing same questions asked over and over again. Just walk away from it. You don't need to make it your mission to patronize everyone.

    @js.dev & @FryingBaconStudios THANK YOU! I will update my Macbook Pro, hope it doesn't implode and will report back.
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    @matarua I'm sure you were just trying to help. It's just your way of doing it was highly aggressive and making assumptions left and right. People shouldn't be afraid of asking things even if that meant feeling stupid. Trust me, I hate asking for help but if I hadn't asked those questions yesterday I wouldn't have realized that my Windows version is different. As the Universal Build tutorials stated you really need to think carefully in the beginning before designing a game. If I just went along with the wrong information I'd have designed a game that I'd have to redo. I also saw posts saying that people had problems taking their Windows GS game over to a Mac which I would need to do in order to produce the app. Another thing I wasn't aware of. There's just so much information out there, I know I'm going to make mistakes and I know I'm going to ask stupid questions to people more experienced like you but if you really want to help you need to be more patient and kinder.

    In fairness you were much more helpful in your last post! Unfortunately the actors trick didn't help me as I said before, I still have to manually resize the big graphics to 50% their size to fit my iPad legacy screen. This was ultimately my main question which brought on the other questions. I will report back from a Mac.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    One of the annoying things about this forum is not seeing what section it's in!

    image

    Doesn't make it easy to see that it was in Gamesalad 101 sorry :D

    I wish you all the best @Ikmad - my apologies that I did not see it was 101.

    Windows GS and Mac GS have some different coding structures so they do not cross over well sorry.

    Great you are learning stuff and that's why I come here too - my advice was just to be well educated on the basics before you start - do the cookbook - read the manual - watch some videos etc.

    Sorry if I was making assumptions as I can just go on my own experiences using Gamesalad.

    When I started I put a 4000 x 1000 image in! I had no idea.

    I watched a lot of videos by John Bura on Udemy - Check Tshirtbooth on YouTube too.

    Even @FryingBaconStudios has help videos up there. There's tonnes!

    I hope this helps you... see below.... I posted this on a forum where I guy showed his game at a local meetup but it was lagging a lot - background was 6000px high...

    "you will most likely have to tile your background - chop it up into squares that are in the 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + ⋯ scale but no bigger than 1024 x 1024 - tiles should be 256 square or 512 square or 1024 square. Make your stage a multiple of that number too - so it's completely efficient."

    So for you if you are interested in memory optimisation and using tiles you can also do them using the 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + scale.

    1024 x 512 tile - six works for example.

    If you are doing this just for iPad 3 & 4 you can do it as one image.

    2048 x 1536*

    *Just be aware that this image uses 2048 x 2048 worth of memory.

    Anyway I am back off to continue building my game.

    All the best and I will go back to my mostly quiet only reading the forums self.

    Take care :)



  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    @matarua No worries!

    I understand better what you mean about tiles now. Sort of like back in the days of modems when you cut a big image into pieces to let it download faster. It's going to be a bit of a PITA with so many graphics but I will definitely try it out. Thanks! I also found out about GS Project Optimiser, Image Alpha and pngmini.com to try and get those graphic file sizes down. Then there's choosing what images to preload, though this understanding is a bit hazy at the moment. I definitely don't want a laggy game. Especially as in my game type there's a lot of back and forth between scenes.

    Right now it's all so overwhelming that I'm trying to cut it down to manageable learning curves using my graphics as an example to test things which is why I got confused stuck at the very beginning with things I *knew* should've worked fine.

    I found 2 templates of the game genre I'm trying to do. Combined with Cookbook, youtube videos (thanks for the tips) and forum I should in theory assimilate it all!

    Thanks for your well wishes and good luck with your game too! :)

    p.s. Yeah, the forum is a bit of a pain to sift through at the moment for me. I got spoiled with vbulletin.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    @Ikmad if you want to find out how lucky we are today - watch this video!

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,909Member
    edited July 2013
    matarua said:



    Do not make images that big ever - you need to learn about image sizes and memory usage first. Perhaps read the forum a bit searching for image optimisation and image sizes. No bigger than 1024 x 1024.

    I'm I did. You said no images bigger than 1024x1024. Which now you explain. But this person was a new user and you didn't explain you meant tiling. You should have explained to him why windows was not respecting RI when an image was being imported. That was his question not memory usage. I was mearly defending this new user from your hostile first post. I could care less if anyone likes me. I just got one of my most recent high profile clients who was reading the GS forum, as they were exploring media creating tools, and contacted me saying they like my mentality on business and such and they hired me. This is a major brand. So if changing my tune means you liking me over people in major business seeing I get it? I'll take the latter.

  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    @FryingBaconStudios - all the best with that & your business :) I have given my rationale so take it or leave it. It was in no way aggressive. It's just some key tips going forward. You on the other hand have insulted me twice. And now you are boasting about how people like you and your business approach? I am not going to do that. And I don't really care for that side of the forums. If somebody has a better way to do something then share it. That's what I was doing - if you think that anything I said was wrong then lets discuss it. That's a good way for me to learn, and for the others on the forum too. I will admit I missed some key points out in my first post. My bad. Sorry for that. Lesson learned. Onwards and upwards!!! :D
  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,909Member
    edited July 2013
    I think what is important is the new user finally got the info he needed and is on his way to learning GS. I'm glad @lkmad isn't feeling rejected anymore as he said he felt yesterday.

    The only reason I mentioned that stuff is because it's fact and I'm tired of people saying what I say is mean. It's not mean, it's the truth about what it takes to make it in a tough business. Meanwhile these people that complain about me when I call them out, these are the people my clients tell me about whom they hired and screwed them or misrepresented their abilities. I won't say but many told me the users who screwed them. I hear these stories from 90% of my clients. This is awful and wrong and is a big problem around here. Most of this goes unsaid and unreported. This is the nasty underbelly of what goes on all the time.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    All good and I again wish you all the best. Back to my game now. Take care. See ya round.
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    edited July 2013
    Finally loaded Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Auto sizing is now happening as it should and I can preview in different devices with letterboxing/cropping! Now things are *finally* making sense again. Yay!

    Re: Tiling:

    a 512px square is a 4x3 tile setup
    a 256px square is a 8x6 tile setup

    How much performance improvement memory wise are we talking between the two?
    I'm going to have to test this aren't I?!!

    Might have to rig a Photoshop Action to do the tiles for me. It's going to be a royal pain!

    Thanks everyone for your help! :)

    P.S. I'm female! :D
    P.P.S. Thanks for the video. I miss those days with the 256 palette. Monkey Island & Kings Quest! Transport Tycoon! They were amazing games!
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    By the way, I used to do art for a Virtual World that used a 256 palette, of which we had to use 16 specific colours if we wanted things paintable. Sometimes such restrictions force you to be more creative. I am still amazed at the beautiful art we had in that world. I'd love to do a game one day with those 'restrictions'!
  • RPRP Posts: 1,990Member
    edited July 2013
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone make importing graphics sound so complicated. It's really simple as are the solutions (not you Ikmad).

    @lkmad the only other thing you can do for graphic performance is to optimize the images via an image editor/tool or via something like Deep Blue Apps project optimizer. It will greatly reduce the image file size. Keep in mind however some of the tools will reduce the range of colors used and sometimes image quality is noticeable (deeper darks , washed out lighter colors). Some tools have more options (or sliders to scale levels/percentages) to achieve the desired final image.

    Check out ImageOptim, Squeezer and ImageAlpha there are more out there and some more robust software suites have this capability as well, although it takes more hoops to get the desired product.
  • mataruamatarua Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 854Member
    @Ikmad great to hear!

    512px is fine.

    You can set up your slices in Photoshop and export the tiles for each level from there.

    In each tile, check 'Physics' inside Gamesalad make sure 'movable' is not ticked (this helps for accuracy and performance in Gamesalad).

    When laying them on your scene - it has to be from the center of each tile - perhaps do a diagram like this (please change it for your game - this is level one of my game with 1024px square tiles). Level Grid >>>

    image

    Great tips from @RP too on image optimisation. http://tinypng.org/ is also a good place to go.

    Sorry about the Windows issues - there's extra steps in creating actors I was not aware of and was way off the mark there. Sincere apologies.

    All the best going forward!
  • lkmadlkmad Posts: 117Member
    @RP & @matarua Thanks for the tips!! :) I will setup some scenes and do some testing!
  • VolontaArtsVolontaArts Posts: 510Member
    i am having the same problem -,-
This discussion has been closed.