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Congratulations @natclarke DBA Competition Winner

UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member
edited June 2014 in Miscellaneous

DBA is pleased to announce the winner of our latest competition is @natclarke.

Thanks to everyone that took part and better luck next time.

Sorry if you missed it but due to GS forum rules we couldn't post about this competition prior as links to 3rd party sites have been banned.

Darren, Wayne, Chris & Ben.

Comments

  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasPosts: 2,870Member, Sous Chef

    @gingagaming said:
    Thank you GS. Your rules suck. Members like DBA should certainly be able to post links. Its sites (or people) like the DBA team, that makes GS so good to use. The reason I joined GS was the community support. Which, dare I say it has been dramatically reduced since you've come down hard on these guys. Talk about hitting them in the face with a frying pan.

    I understand we don't want the forum full of 3rd party sites advertising, but Im sure you could grant permission for certain community members to be allowed to post under certain circumstances if its in the GS communities interest!

    Please refresh your forum rules guys!

    I understand peoples frustration over the rules GameSalad has put in place, but I also understand GameSalads stance on the issue. They can't give one person special privileges without giving everyone the same privileges. No one gets special treatment on the forums anymore. The rules for no 3rd party links has been around for over a year now, and it was just not enforced fully by the moderators, especially for people like DBA and GSHelper. Other people got shot down while others were able to get away with it. GameSalad decided it was time for the rules to be completely enforced as they should be.

    The reason you don't see advertisements from 3rd party vendors here is the same reason you won't see GameSalad advertisements on their sites. Why would a company advertise a competitors products on their site? Regardless if the item is beneficial to the community or not, once you put a price tag on that item, it becomes a commercial product of your company/business, and directly competes with GameSalads Marketplace, regardless of what condition the GameSalad Marketplace is perceived as.

    @ForumNinja @dgackey - Correct me if I'm wrong, but If people want to hold a competition, they can, and they can post it on the forums just as long as the page they are linked to doesn't have any other links that take you to paid products for GameSalad. A webpage can be created easy enough without links to paid products, and just be dedicated to the contest at hand, but if at the top of the page, in the logo, or anywhere else on the page, are links to other sections of the website where other assets are sold, it's not allowed.

    And If anyone still disagree with the rules, you can always send a message to @ForumNinja or @dgackey and plead your case with them.

    I have no friends. I'm a loser that makes video games all day. Will you be my friend?

  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef

    @gingagaming said:

    I understand we don't want the forum full of 3rd party sites advertising, but Im sure you could grant permission for certain community members to be allowed to post under certain circumstances if its in the GS communities interest!

    Please refresh your forum rules guys!

    Actually that's more how it used to be and anyone new cried foul and then everyone was up in arms cause we were not allowing everyone the right to advertise the living crap out if the forums.

    It's also very important to understand that you (forum users) get one persons side of the story. Your not aware of the private conversations and incidents that have brought us to these currently refreshed set of rules.

    All third parties are allowed to show links in their signatures which mean the more active they are helping users the more often their links are seen. They have also revised the rules to allow for third party sites to link back to their site for free tutorials. If say the higher quality the tutorial the more likely users are going to spend more time in the rest if their site so is say the rules have eased up quite a bit with regards to advertising.

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • dgackeydgackey Austin, TXPosts: 699Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @SlickZero said:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but If people want to hold a competition, they can, and they can post it on the forums just as long as the page they are linked to doesn't have any other links that take you to paid products for GameSalad. A webpage can be created easy enough without links to paid products, and just be dedicated to the contest at hand, but if at the top of the page, in the logo, or anywhere else on the page, are links to other sections of the website where other assets are sold, it's not allowed.

    That's correct. There is no rule against contests -- we love contests! What we don't love is advertisements that are designed to pull people away from our site for the purposes of selling their goods on a third party site, regardless of what garb they are cloaked in.

    In the past we have looked the other way on these, but "marketing creep" inevitably sets in and if you're not careful, you have a community that is devoid of meaningful content and is dominated by nothing but commercial appeals.

    While it may seem like we are "cracking down" on forum management, nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the rules were already in place but just weren't being consistently enforced, and we received a lot of feedback from the community and from the mods that the quality and usefulness of the forums were suffering as a result. The mods worked together to develop solutions, approached us and proposed them, and we agreed.

    @gingagaming‌

    While I appreciate the input of all of our customers, I do have to request that you share future feedback in a more respectful manner if we're to have a meaningful dialogue.

    Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · [email protected]

  • natzuurnatzuur Posts: 304Member
    edited June 2014

    @dgackey It is a bit of a two sided coin though. While the Gamesalad marketplace is cool, and I would love to use it, it needs a major overhaul (search functionality and categories are awful). And obfuscating discoverability of third party sites to force people to use the marketplace one isn't helping anyone who is looking to buy assets. Maybe an affiliate program is needed?, or an official deal with third party providers? Or maybe an approved list of vendors who can post in a specific part of the site.

    The other issue this is potentially contributing to is retention of devs for your engine. The easier it is for someone to use a software to complete a project the more likely they are to stick around. Providing several obviously discoverable means to get assets will contribute to this.

    Then of course you have projects like the openstockproject that have been brought into question by mods with no public answer given... It's open source free art for all, you're really going to stomp that one out too?

    So while I get that you want to keep things internal and provide a single point of resources, you guys aren't really stepping it up to make it seem like that's the right choice for everyone.

  • tatiangtatiang Posts: 11,699Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-Chef
    edited June 2014

    @gingagaming I hear you. It certainly wasn't anyone's intention to limit the support of this great community. What was happening was two things: (1) any rules that apply to only some people are seen as unfair; there was a perception -- partially true -- that long-time members weren't held as strictly to the rules and it bothered people and (2) when rules were relaxed or not enforced for the entire community, some people took advantage of it and spammed the forums. I know you haven't been a member that long but the forums were a mess for a while because of it.

    It's no fun to have to come down on people who aren't following the rules and it's even less fun to implement stricter rules but both are done in the interest of keeping the forums on track. It's your opinion that the community support has been dramatically reduced... I'm not sure I agree as there are new third-party tutorials from people like @Braydon_SFX‌ and @Codemonster, the Spare Code thread is active with amazing free demos, a dozen or more long-time active members and moderators comb the forums and offer free advice all day long, etc.

    And for those companies such as @DeepBlueApps and @GSHelper, while it may hurt their bottom line to not be able to advertise as freely, I think it's safe to say that the more they help here on the forums the more people are likely to visit their sites to see what else they offer. That and signatures continue to be a place that Pro members can advertise third-party sites.

    Edit: not saying anything that wasn't already said above... just a slow typer I guess! :)

    New to GameSalad? (FAQs)   |   Tutorials   |   Templates   |   Greenleaf Games   |   Educator & Certified GameSalad User

  • dgackeydgackey Austin, TXPosts: 699Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @natzuur‌

    No argument from me regarding the Marketplace. In fact, we're so far in agreement that we hired a full time person just to focus on rebuilding a new MP from the ground up.

    I'm not sure the point about us being a single point of resources is really accurate though. We don't send C&D letters to 3rd party sellers who use the GameSalad branding and words in their sites, or in any way discourage those sellers from running their own marketplaces. DBA, GSHelper and others are all free to host their own forums and invest in customer growth and marketing.

    All we're saying is that the GameSalad customer forums is not the proper avenue for this content.

    I am not familiar with the openstockproject thread, but I do not have any issue with the posting of free asset compilations like that, provided that they are true open source projects and not gateway pages that are intended to be used to try and upsell people who click.

    Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · [email protected]

  • tatiangtatiang Posts: 11,699Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-Chef

    And so it's not all business... congrats Natalie @natclarke‌! The Resource Center is an amazing tool.

    New to GameSalad? (FAQs)   |   Tutorials   |   Templates   |   Greenleaf Games   |   Educator & Certified GameSalad User

  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Posts: 9,934Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef
    edited June 2014

    @natzuur said:
    dgackey It is a bit of a two sided coin though. While the Gamesalad marketplace is cool, and I would love to use it, it needs a major overhaul (search functionality and categories are awful). And obfuscating discoverability of third party sites to force people to use the marketplace one isn't helping anyone who is looking to buy assets. Maybe an affiliate program is needed?, or an official deal with third party providers? Or maybe an approved list of vendors who can post in a specific part of the site.

    The other issue this is potentially contributing to is retention of devs for your engine. The easier it is for someone to use a software to complete a project the more likely they are to stick around. Providing several obviously discoverable means to get assets will contribute to this.

    Might I point you to this official GameSalad thread?
    http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/38689/useful-links#latest

    Then of course you have projects like the openstockproject that have been brought into question by mods with no public answer given... It's open source free art for all, you're really going to stomp that one out too?

    To my knowledge openstockproject was approved to post direct links several months ago. even when all other direct links where not allowed. Can you please point me to where it is being called into question.

    In fact all free resources are fully welcomed I would strongly suggest everyone read through the forum rules in their entirety so they can be gullying informed about the topic. heres a little tide bit that i think directly relates to your comment though.

    Each user or third party site which supplies free demos or tutorials will be allowed to maintain a single thread inside the “Community Tutorials” sub forum. All tutorials and demos must be kept inside that single thread and only links directly to the page where the free download is available are allowed. Discussing or linking to paid items is strictly prohibited.

    so not only are places like openstockproject welcome to link back to their pages so are any other sites that are providing free content to gs users. be it demos, assets, or videos.

    Cheers
    Aaron

    It's not my fault I never learned to take responsibility for anything. ;)

  • jonmulcahyjonmulcahy Posts: 10,376Member, Sous Chef

    @natzurr openstockproject is ok because everything is free for all to use, and he is not selling other services on his website, but if that changes, he falls into a new category.

  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member
    edited June 2014

    Shame as it would of been nice to post about the competition for a GS Pro License on the GS forums but rules are rules and some people no doubt missed out.

    You don't give to receive but i also believe in being fair so after 4 years of service to the forums i choose to spent my time differently now.

    Its hard when i see a help post that a simple "heres a link to our free template" could sort out but thats not allowed so i walk away.

    Its interesting to see all the big 's out in force though :)

    Darren.

  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member

    These forums have taken a dramatic downwards spiral over the last year with all the enforcement … Just my 2cents but the majority of 'power' users have now just given up on it!
    Its now just become 'another standard forum' and its lost its closeness and specialness it once held … Thats not a huge dig at GS, most the people there now weren't around either in its 'glory' days!

  • natzuurnatzuur Posts: 304Member

    @jonmulcahy @tenrdrmer Fair enough, thanks I just never saw any updates after it was brought into question here: http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/9368/free-art-and-graphics-assets-backgrounds-art-packs-etc#latest Seems like it passes the rules.

    @dgackey Glad to hear it, I hope the changes come soon. Looking forward to it.

    @tenrdrmer I didn't know about that thread, hopefully it continues to be updated now with SSS gone. Thanks for pointing that out.

    All in all I don't agree with all of the rules, and of course each person has there opinion. But. it's understandable since this is GS's hosted forums and they can choose as they like.

  • dgackeydgackey Austin, TXPosts: 699Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @DeepBlueApps said:
    Its hard when i see a help post that a simple "heres a link to our free template" could sort out but thats not allowed so i walk away.

    I guess I'm confused why a PM doesn't suffice in this instance?

    Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · [email protected]

  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member
    edited June 2014

    Dan a PM only helps one user a link in the thread could help 10, 20 more?

    "How do I do custom font via a table" may be checked out by several users also looking how to do this so a link to a free template would help everyone not just one user.

    It's quick and simple and used to allow me to move onto a new question and potentially helping a new user in seconds.

    From a business point of view it makes no sense to simply post the file here if I'm giving up my time to help I'd like them to pop over to DBA and maybe have a look around.

    We also like to see which files are popular and helpful which we can't do by simply dropping it here.

    Darren.

  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Posts: 5,390Member
  • gingagaminggingagaming FREELANCE GS DEV Posts: 1,562Member

    Thank you for your feedback @SlickZero‌ @tenrdrmer @‌tatiang @jonmulcahy‌

    Im not sure I can thank you for your feedback @dgakey lol. But I will take on board your comment and instruction.

    Whilst Ive not been here as long as some of the veterans on the site, I am a very regular visitor (most likely 10 plus times a day) and give as much as I can back to the community on subjects that I am knowledgable. And I have noticed that a certain few veterans have purposely boycotted the forums recently for there own reasons related to GS rules.

  • Braydon_SFXBraydon_SFX Posts: 9,112Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy Sidekick GameSalad Employee
    edited June 2014

    So I've read through this thread a couple of times. While I'd like to be able to post free things that link to our site, I can totally understand why GameSalad doesn't want that. I get it. Does that change what I do? Nope! I still help out tons on the forums and create new video and project file tutorials because that's what I like to do -- help those learning GameSalad. Shoot, even today I learned something new because of the generous people still around here on the forums. If we cannot post a link to our sites, that shouldn't push us away from this great community. We are still able to have signatures that link to our sites, and I think that's great. I've accepted the new terms and will continue to follow them. Time to move on.

    Just my 2 cents, though.

    Jumps behind rocks to protect himself from spewing comments

  • dgackeydgackey Austin, TXPosts: 699Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    @DeepBlueApps said:
    From a business point of view it makes no sense to simply post the file here if I'm giving up my time to help I'd like them to pop over to DBA and maybe have a look around.

    This is really the heart of the matter, I think. We're both looking out for our business interests and customers, and those needs aren't always going align perfectly.

    @gingagaming‌ said:
    And I have noticed that a certain few veterans have purposely boycotted the forums recently for there own reasons related to GS rules.

    That's unfortunate, especially since we've gone to great lengths to be transparent and fair about the rules and how they are enforced. I'd rather have great community members participate than not, but if special treatment is a condition of their participation, I just can't get on board with that :(

    Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · [email protected]

  • gingagaminggingagaming FREELANCE GS DEV Posts: 1,562Member
    edited June 2014

    @dgackey said:
    That's unfortunate, especially since we've gone to great lengths to be transparent and fair about the rules and how they are enforced. I'd rather have great community members participate than not, but if special treatment is a condition of their participation, I just can't get on board with that :(

    To be honest, the rules are transparent now. No links to 3rd party sites but you can direct members to your signature. To be honest, this rule (if I have understood it correct) is not so bad for 3rd party sites anyhow. I just hope, they return and continue to develop the community.

  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member
    edited June 2014

    It's a tough one on a personal note as I was the one GS turned to when they were after millions of dollars of investment it was me who had serveral phone calls and answered lots of questions from the venture capitalists talking them through how great GS is and why they should invest and how it helped us into the top 20 twice with Bumps and Red Ball of Goo.

    We've made templates for you to show off at conventions like Angry Birds etc and supported you from the early days.

    We've made great tools that help developers like the merger for eg.

    It's was DBA and one of our contacts who tracked down the hacker who stole all the files from the server and was selling all our games for 15k a bundle giving you his name, address and ip etc so you could prosecute.

    Over 90 templates on your marketplace also shows our support but I guess we will have to agree to disagree with certain rules and regulations and Beefy is right its not the same anymore we don't have the close connection to the GS staff anymore which is a shame.

    I used to talk to Frank Coppersmith and the other higher ups on a regular basis but now I've no idea who works for you, who's in charge and who to share ideas with.

    Darren.

  • dgackeydgackey Austin, TXPosts: 699Key Master, Head Chef, Member, PRO GameSalad Employee

    Darren, obviously you know I can't really offer any insight into any of that as it's all long before my time. I would hope that my predecessors offered you the sincere personal gratitude that all those acts deserve, but if they didn't, you have mine, here and now.

    That said, I am still committed to running things around here in a fair and orderly fashion, and as you say, we'll have to agree to disagree about some of those rules. I appreciate your understanding and respect for what we've built together here.

    Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · [email protected]

  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member
    edited June 2014

    Yes I understand Dan and I don't want any special treatment I'm no different to the next guy but I think certain rules are simply too restricting.

    GS is a wonderful tool that allows us all to live the dream and the work your doing lately is fantastic so onwards and upwards.

    Darren.

  • BazookaTimeBazookaTime Posts: 1,274Member
    edited June 2014

    @DeepBlueApps said:
    It's a tough one on a personal note as I was the one GS turned to when they were after millions of dollars of investment it was me who had serveral phone calls and answered lots of questions from the venture capitalists talking them through how great GS is and why they should invest and how it helped us into the top 20 twice with Bumps and Red Ball of Goo.

    We've made templates for you to show off at conventions like Angry Birds etc and supported you from the early days.

    We've made great tools that help developers like the merger for eg.

    It's was DBA and one of our contacts who tracked down the hacker who stole all the files from the server and was selling all our games for 15k a bundle giving you his name, address and ip etc so you could prosecute.

    Over 90 templates on your marketplace also shows our support but I guess we will have to agree to disagree with certain rules and regulations and Beefy is right its not the same anymore we don't have the close connection to the GS staff anymore which is a shame.

    I used to talk to Frank Coppersmith and the other higher ups on a regular basis but now I've no idea who works for you, who's in charge and who to share ideas with.

    Darren.

    Interesting Stuff! When I got into GS a few years back it was pretty much DBA and T-Shirt Booth up front, so much so that I always thought they were part of the ownership. There wasn't a lot out there from GS other than some basic templates and very little leadership back then.

    GS now has its own Marketplace and the funny thing is GSHelper (built by T-Shirt) and DBA Apps/MarketPlace are both miles ahead of it. Seems like it would have been a good idea to continue relationships between GameSalad and some of the elite individuals who helped make GS a success.

  • natclarkenatclarke Brisbane, AustraliaPosts: 239Member, PRO

    I am so grateful to Deep Blue Apps, for their incredible templates and incredible support. It has been such a blessing to win their competition.

    This has an incredible impact on my life and the lives of many.
    A few years ago I had the idea to build a app to educate children the environment and animals. I had written and illustrated a whole series of eco children’s stories while I was recovering from a broken leg.

    Even though, my husband is a a programmer he was only able to support my endeavour at a limited level.
    At the time, he had a major accident that put him into a wheelchair for 6 months. It was fortunate that he kept his leg and is walking again!

    With many obstacles, I found a way to develop my apps so that it required little programming skills. With a Google search, I found Gamesalad.
    Fortunately, while looking at the forums, I discovered Deep Blue Apps.

    Through trail and error and support from Deep Blue Apps, I was able to get my first app with Apple. It was approved after two weeks of development!

    Over the years, the templates have been an integral part of my apps. Each app, I have has at least 5-6 templates of games and activities to create a whole educational experience.
    As a relief teacher, I test my eco children’s and mood tool box apps with hundreds of children weekly and they assist greatly with the development.

    I have also developed a Boy and Girl game that educates pregnant women as well as entertaining them with most templates from Deep Blue Apps. This has helped us to survive and eat when times have been tough!

    Now thousands of apps are downloaded weekly and they are touching the lives of many people. Big organisations are coming abroad to promote them as affiliates. Income in the future will help children in need and support organisations that care for animals.

    My deepest gratitude to Deep Blue Apps. Sometimes, we may never know the impact that we have on others! I just hope that you do know that your work has not only touched my family and I, but will also help a starving child or a animal that is endangered around the world.

    Natalie Clarke
    Life Cleansing

    PS: This can be post can be found on my website under heartfelt thanks

    Nat Clarke
    Life Cleansing

  • UtopianGamesUtopianGames Posts: 5,685Member

    Its been our pleasure Natalie, what a wonderful story.

    Darren.

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