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State of GameSalad on 6/30/2015...

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  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    @Chunkypixels said:
    The_Gamesalad_Guru ...nothing to really prove me wrong about... I voiced concerns that diverting assets to creating a secondary development platform might not be such a great idea, when the company already had a very good one that still needed issues fixing.

    Im in no doubt that Graphene could very well turn out to be something amazing... Im just glad that sense has prevailed and making GameSalad better has become the priority.

    Like I said though...I have mixed feelings... so Im not 100% one way or the other with regards to Graphene. It had many features I would have loved to have seen in GameSalad. But it just didn't seem to make sense from a commercial standpoint... one or the other would have suffered for the other to survive and grow. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that having two platforms in development at the same time probably didn't do anything to help with internal company politics...

    No point scoring... no need to prove anyone wrong...

    We do agree that Felter was the issue. He was the only remaining person so it makes sense that his vision wasn't working. I think we can also agree creators backend code is limited to what can be shoe horned into it. A ground up rebuild has to happen at some point so some small resources working on it as goal to that end here in the near future is a positive investment. Especially since they have made significant progress. Just as the free model had to go one day so will creator as we know it have to go one day like it or not. this is just the evolution of Tech.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    @tmann said:
    The_Gamesalad_Guru just to clarify a related point.. Unity 3D Personal is free to publish as long as you make less than 100k.. I know they must be crazy.

    That's cool as long as you allow unity to monitor your software and downloads. I prefer not to have those kind of analytics in my games. I like that GS isn't looking over my shoulder and I can get that freedom for only $29 a month.

  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member
    edited July 2015

    @The_Gamesalad_Guru yup... we agree on Felter, thats for sure :)

    With regards to GameSalads backend though, I still don't see how Graphene would have successfully worked as a successor.

    From everything we were told, Graphene wasn't compatible with GS files... so it was a completely new tool. So meant either supporting 2 platforms, or killing one off. Surely, it would make more business sense to rewrite GameSalad from scratch... to have new clean, backend code, that would still be compatible with old GS files... so advancing the current tech, platform and user base... rather than fragmenting it and cannibalising it.

    GameSalad as a company obviously weren't in a position to be able to take the ongoing costs and risk involved in pushing a second development engine/tool...

    No real need to debate it now though... as the team have already done it themselves, and come to their own conclusions on the issue.

  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Posts: 5,520Member
    edited July 2015

    @socks said ...Agreed, it's a bad advert for GS to have a poorly functioning Arcade.

    While I'd personally like to see full HTML5 export I agree totally with you. Given the choice of 'not so great and not so flexible' HTML5 that reflects poorly on Gamesalad as a tool or no HTML5 at all I'd have to vote for no HTML5 at all. Do it well or don't do it at all... :)

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    @KevinCross said:
    If I came to GameSalad as a new visitor/developer and saw I had to pay $19 a month and for that I could only publish to the GameSalad Arcade I'm almost unlikely to invest any time or money in GameSalad.

    This is a good point. It needs to be made clearer that you can upgrade from Basic to Pro at any time.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    @Chunkypixels said:
    The_Gamesalad_Guru yup... we agree on Felter, thats for sure :)

    With regards to GameSalads backend though, I still don't see how Graphene would have successfully worked as a successor.

    From everything we were told, it wasn't compatible with GS files... so it was a completely new tool. So meant either supporting 2 platforms, or killing one off. Surely, it would make more business sense to rewrite GameSalad from scratch... to have new clean, backend code, that would still be compatible with old GS files... so advancing the current tech, platform and user base... rather than fragmenting it and cannibalising it.

    GameSalad as a company obviously weren't in a position to be able to take the ongoing costs and risk involved in pushing a second development engine/tool...

    No real need to debate it now though... as the team have already done it themselves, and come to their own conclusions on the issue.

    Are you 100% confident code could be written to provide backwards compatibility? every software company goes through this of cutting off backwards compatibility at some point, no?

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    One thing to think about with Arcade is the potential for 3rd parties now Marketplace is being suspended.

    Rather than posting a link to a template, post a link to the Arcade where someone can really try the template out and see exactly what they're buying, and link to the purchase page from there. This is a tactic sneakily used by @DeepBlueApps recently, but it seems a likely course 3rd party advertising on the forums will take.

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,822Member

    @jamie_c said:
    Given the choice of 'not so great and not so flexible' HTML5 that reflects poorly on Gamesalad as a tool or no HTML5 at all I'd have to vote for no HTML5 at all. Do it well or don't do it at all... :)

    Agreed. The real choice is between a viable working Arcade/HTML5 or much needed improvements to Creator - at least when it comes to allocating resources - of course this is all guesswork on my part as I honestly don't know the internal workings of GS.

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,822Member
    edited July 2015

    @KevinCross
    If I came to GameSalad as a new visitor/developer and saw I had to pay $19 a month and for that I could only publish to the GameSalad Arcade I'm almost unlikely to invest any time or money in GameSalad.

    I'd say this was a mistaken view of the situation, people seem to be seeing the Basic plan as being solely for publishing to the GameSalad Arcade, but of course you can use the Basic plan to work on your iOS game, completely ignoring the Arcade, in fact GameSalad could kill off the Arcade and - from the point of view of a Basic users developing games for Android or iOS - it would make zero difference.

    As I've said elsewhere is will cost a Basic plan user an additional $10 to publish to iOS/Android.

    I think most people get into this whole thing to see their ideas come to life on iPads, iPhones and Androids, to get their game ideas onto the Amazon Store, Google Play and the App Store, rather than an online Arcade.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    @Socks said:
    As I've said elsewhere is will cost a Basic plan user an additional $10 to publish to iOS/Android.

    Death to the Arcade! Straight HTML 5 in it's place!

  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member
    edited July 2015

    @The_Gamesalad_Guru ...Adobe (Photoshop), Autodesk (3dsMax & Maya), Unity... etc etc etc...

    They don't kill off their previous generation... they might rewrite the engine from scratch every now and then, and kill off obsolete code, but they still have 100% usability and backwards compatibility for the end user.

    My files from photoshop 5.0 are still openable and usable in the latest version of Photoshop CC... same with my ancient 3ds Max backup files... I can still open them in the most recent version of the software.

    They don't kill or cannibalise their main product, in order to bring out something new that has better coding in the background. Just doesn't make commercial sense to fragment your own user base.

    Even more so when your such a small company with limited resources...

    But like I said... no real need for us to continue debating the issue. Decisions have already been discussed and have been made where it matters.

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    My current biggest fear is that the Marketplace will close and one third party will be allowed to dominate in its place.

  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member
    edited July 2015

    @Armelline surely thats market forces at work?

    If one market is crap... poorly run, full of low quality product, hard to search etc, or closes down for whatever reason, and another company/party has another site out there that fills the demand and does it well, then why would that be a problem?

    Surely its good that theres other sites out there that are capable of filling the void, rather than there being nothing?

    I think this is a different topic though.... :)

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO
    edited July 2015

    @Chunkypixels said:
    Armelline surely thats market forces at work?

    If one market is crap... poorly run, full of low quality product, hard to search etc, or closes down for whatever reason, and another company/party has another site out there that fills the demand and does it well, then why would that be a problem?

    Surely its good that theres other sites out there that are capable of filling the void, rather than there being nothing?

    I think this is a different topic though.... :)

    If GameSalad come to an agreement with one particular 3rd party marketplace, then it'll have a massive and unfair advantage. All marketplaces need to be treated evenly.

    By "allowed to dominate" I meant "with GameSalad's support".

  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member

    @Armelline ....sounds like you know something we don't? :)

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO
    edited July 2015

    @Chunkypixels said:
    Armelline ....sounds like you know something we don't? :)

    I know nothing, but I've been around a long time. I'm stating my fears, not working from any kind of inside knowledge.

  • GnarlyGnarly canadaPosts: 840Member

    I think this will generate more revenue form current users in the current year. I will buy in for sure..... Im guessing new users will dwindle past the 15 days.

    Who actually owns gamesalad?

    When does the 15 day trial start?

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    @gattoman said:
    When does the 15 day trial start?

    The appeared to be saying today. It starts today.

  • francis.charland@videotron.ca[email protected] 3D Artist/Generalist Quebec, CanadaPosts: 48Member, PRO

    First thing first IMAO GS need to keep getting more stable and catch up ASAP with the competition feature wise.

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO
    edited July 2015

    I think everyone is completely missing by the far the most important question.

    This is the question that really cuts to the core of the issue and speaks to the things that matter most.

    New forum badges coming? Need some way to know who's Pro and who's basic. How else can I look down on them cough know who hasn't stumped up the full 30 cough know who to help first cough wow really probably not a good idea, actually.

  • Braydon_SFXBraydon_SFX Posts: 9,103Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy Sidekick GameSalad Employee

    @Armelline said:
    I think everyone is completely missing by the far the most important question.

    This is the question that really cuts to the core of the issue and speaks to the things that matter most.

    New forum badges coming? Need some way to know who's Pro and who's basic. How else can I look down on them cough know who hasn't stumped up the full 30 cough know who to help first cough wow really probably not a good idea, actually.

    What are you, some kind of mindreader? ;)

  • ChunkypixelsChunkypixels Posts: 1,113Member
    edited July 2015

    @Armelline @Braydon_SFX ...well you might be in luck. From looking at the vastly reduced GS Team page, it looks like an artist has managed to survive the recent cull.

    On a side note... it looks like Tan is the only person on the GS staff to have now been there from the beginning... :(

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,904Member

    @Armelline said:
    I think everyone is completely missing by the far the most important question.

    This is the question that really cuts to the core of the issue and speaks to the things that matter most.

    New forum badges coming? Need some way to know who's Pro and who's basic. How else can I look down on them cough know who hasn't stumped up the full 30 cough know who to help first cough wow really probably not a good idea, actually.

    Fueling the fires..Oh man :o

  • floatingwoofloatingwoo Los Angeles, Calif.Posts: 393Member
    edited July 2015

    Firstly, Not against paying for game salad but I want to get clear on this.

    @CodeWizard Pro users can continue using old versions.

    @CodeWizard So what do I do now? I have literally hundreds of project files of experiments that I have been making on almost a daily basis since starting with game salad that I have carefully cataloged. Demos from others that have graciously been provided for learning purposes here on the forum.Templets that I have purchased from vendors like gshelper and DeepBlueApps. Some projects were purchased through outside programmers.

    I was hoping to go for the basic plan until I got closer to getting a game together, but that would effectively shut out all of my research to this point . So my only option to continue accessing this wealth of information is to be a pro user?

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    @floatingwoo said:
    So my only option to continue accessing this wealth of information is to be a pro user

    Your have the option to be a Basic user. Still $19 a month, but better than $29.

  • KevinCrossKevinCross London, UKPosts: 1,893Member

    @floatingwoo said:
    CodeWizard So what do I do now? I have literally hundreds of project files of experiments that I have been making on almost a daily basis since starting with game salad that I have carefully cataloged. Demos from others that have graciously been provided for learning purposes here on the forum.Templets that I have purchased from vendors like gshelper and DeepBlueApps. Some projects were purchased through outside programmers.

    I was hoping to go for the basic plan until I got closer to getting a game together, but that would effectively shut out all of my research to this point . So my only option to continue accessing this wealth of information is to be a pro user

    Why couldn't you continue using these demos and templates you've created, found and purchased, with the paid for basic account? You'd still be able to load them into the latest version of GameSalad. What research are you shutting out?

  • francis.charland@videotron.ca[email protected] 3D Artist/Generalist Quebec, CanadaPosts: 48Member, PRO
    edited July 2015

    @Chunkypixels said:
    Armelline Braydon_SFX ...well you might be in luck. From looking at the vastly reduced GS Team page, it looks like an artist has managed to survive the recent cull.

    On a side note... it looks like Tan is the only person on the GS staff to have now been there from the beginning... :(

    Was looking at it yesterday evening... Almost half the team's gone.. More production, less Marketing! It was a lot of people for that kind of software if you compare to Construct/Stencyl/Multimedia Fusion

  • floatingwoofloatingwoo Los Angeles, Calif.Posts: 393Member

    @Armelline But at the very beginning of this thread @CodeWizard stated that only pro users will be able to continue using old versions.

  • ArmellineArmelline Posts: 4,704Member, PRO

    @floatingwoo said:
    Armelline But at the very beginning of this thread CodeWizard stated that only pro users will be able to continue using old versions.

    I'm unclear what old versions really have to do with anything. If you start paying for a Basic account, why do you need old versions?

    You're saying you specifically want to keep using previous versions of GameSalad that have long since been replaced?

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