creativeapps said: photics I want to see your game artwork and graphics. Will you please post 1-2 screenshots here?
If you want to see screenshots earlier, then petition Touch Arcade. I've made it clear that I'm not releasing screenshots until the game is submitted to Apple... or Touch Arcade contacts me for a Preview interview.
I haven't been contacted by Touch Arcade, so I'm waiting until the game is done to release screenshots.
It shouldn't be much longer. I think the game will be ready to go in May. I might have to start pestering the GameSalad team. Where's Game Center?!
———————————————
April 20, 2011 - Progress Report
Super Nova
I've finally got back into a productive mode. Tonight, I'm working on area 14 of 35. Area 13 was complicated. A two levels per day average means I might be done with level design by the end of April.
I have about 11 musical loops in the game too. The game sounds great.
Today I was working on lava. Basically, I have an image that's supposed to rotate. That's all... just rotate. It should be a no-brainer, right?!
Once again, in my obsessive approach to game design, I'm not content to make a movable actor if I don't have to. So, I thought of ways to fix that.
I came up with this formula...
Constrain self.rotation to ( game.Time *4)+%360
Basically, the game rotates based on game time. But then I thought about something... what happens when the game has been running for a really long time? Wouldn't such a design crash?
One more zero and the formula would break. Although, I think the sun might go super nova before that many seconds have transpired. The iOS device itself would likely decay before that happens.
But even still, it's bad design. What's a better way to handle this?
I thought about using interpolate, which would work. Also, actor.time is another alternative. If you're in the same scene for a billion years, are you really playing the game? Why should I care if it crashes then?
But then, I think of that Gameboy in Nintendo World. Two decades after being burned in the Iraq war (the first one), the device still works. It's on display in New York City... still running Tetris.
That's a high standard! But if for some reason area 14 is left on display 20 years I think that the lava should still work. Heh, but there are probably lots of other reasons why a GameSalad game would crash before that.
DreamLab said: When are we going to see a video of gameplay?
Video is basically the same as screenshots... did you even read my previous post?
Promo video and screenshots will be released after the game has been submitted to Apple... unless Touch Arcade contacts me and requests a preview interview.
Getting to record the dialog for many of the triple A video games out there, you learn a lot from the exec producers... ( I have NDA's with every game company out there. They never release concepts, images, audio, ideas, etc. to anyone before their marketing team lets them.
"No one really cares if you ship a great game a few months late... but, No one will buy a crappy game that shipped on time... "
You did great with your textbook. Right textbook, right time...
Take your time, make it perfect, test it, test it again, have hundreds of others test it, have a solid & proven marketing plan in place....
Then ship it...
And thats just the beginning...
You are taking all the right steps, Photics.... Keep it up!!!
morgangerhard said: Take your time, make it perfect, test it, test it again, have hundreds of others test it, have a solid & proven marketing plan in place....
Slapping a virtual controller on a game doesn't work. BOT addresses this issue. The control was specifically designed for iOS.
2 - Polish the game
Well, I'm not done yet. However, it's clear that I am putting extra work into this game. It's the largest project in the 12+ year history of Photics.com. It's even bigger than the textbook and my science fiction novel.
3 - Market the game
While I think being featured by Apple is the best form of marketing, it's difficult to get there without some additional marketing. I have the start of a marketing plan. Clearly, I'm already building hype. I'm just not sure how extreme I'm going to go.
Things I'm still considering...
• A launch party • Paid Search • Handing out flyers at the NYC Ferry Terminal
It's something to think about while I make the other 21 areas.
Photics said: If you want to see screenshots earlier, then petition Touch Arcade. I've made it clear that I'm not releasing screenshots until the game is submitted to Apple... or Touch Arcade contacts me for a Preview interview.
Actually graphics screenshot and video is best way to show your progress in the game. I dont have to read this essay size content of your progress. Its up to you. If you feel that your graphics are not still professional or what so and dont want to display then its up to you. Thanks for being honest now I dont west my time to read this thread any more.
Im going to put my two pence in, and really urge you Photics to show some graphics or footage of the game to other developers... even if its just a select few... so that you can get some good, honest feedback and suggestions.
Normally, for smaller projects, its not such a big deal... but because your putting a lot of time and effort into this project, you really dont want to leave it until after the game is released to get that feedback.
From a purely graphics perspective, Im a little concerned for you... spending so much time on assets, without getting outside feedback could be a dangerous strategy. As a developer, its too easy to get caught up in your own project, and not see it how general users will.
You can never rely on just your own opinion, or close friends and family for honest critique of the product.
Its great reading the updates... and reading your various states of emotion as the game progresses and you battle through all the peaks and troughs of the development process... but you do worry me that your attempt at hyping the game up whilst being so secretive about how it looks, could backfire...
So for the sake of your game... pick a few developers or games players that arent close to you, but you think you can trust, and show them your project, so you can get some feedback before you put too much more effort in.
I think it could save you some potential heartache later down the road.
creativeapps said: Its up to you. If you feel that your graphics are not still professional or what so and dont want to display then its up to you. Thanks for being honest now I dont west my time to read this thread any more.
I think there's a lot to learn from this thread without pictures. There are those that are enjoying the information in this tread! I think the graphics are very professional. I just looked at the game right now to check. Yeah, I still like it!
Here's why I think the graphics are good...
• Great icons for weapons and items • Great weapon effects • Awesome fire effects and exploding enemies • Nice animation for enemies and TANK • Highly detailed backgrounds, not just repetitive tiles • Good environmental effects... clouds, lava • It's profession because I spent money on a lot of the artwork
Depending how I approach the remaining 21 areas, this game could have the largest art budget from any of my mobile projects. The graphics are not the only thing in this game either.
• At least 12 professional musical loops (two with multiple versions) • 30+ sound effects so far. (I made them myself!) • Excellent controls... specifically designed for iOS • Solid understanding of RPGs... I think the game is fun! • Math - BOT has some pretty complicated expressions.
The reason I don't show more of the game is simple... I don't want my ideas copied! BOT is that good! I think my approach to this project could change the way GameSalad developers approach their projects.
I was really good at GameSalad before, but this is a whole new level for me. If you want to insult my work, that's up to you. It doesn't change reality though.
The GameSalad Creator lists the Project size at 81.0 Megs! Only 2/5 of the levels are complete. Clearly, a lot of work is going into this project. I realize that people are frustrated waiting. I'm even more frustrated. I've been working so hard on this project that it's starting to feel like a prison. I don't like keeping BOT a secret. I'm looking forward to showing it off. Yet, I've gone too far on this project to give up now.
For those that have been reading what I wrote, the professionalism of this project should be apparent.
quantumsheep said: Using Daz models is certainly one way to go, and I even did that myself on my first ever game.
I learned after a year of making games and not being happy with the results, graphically at least, that using a 'proper' artist is the way to go.
The main problem with the artwork is that it's a little depressing... but that's what it's supposed to be. The Book of Eli is not exactly a colorful world, filled with lush meadows and trees in full bloom. It's a gritty... or as polygame might say "beige" ...world. It's still an excellent movie.
It's storytelling, also another part of the game. That's why the artwork is professional. I'm choosing it to reenforce game mechanics and game lore.
The artwork is also professional because I'm a professional. It's not just a blind cut & paste from DAZ Studio. I've been working hard with the artwork to create a consistent look. It's tough with top-down. I can see where someone would critique the work. That's not going to change anything though.
I'm happy with the way the game looks. (I do have some issues with the top-down perspective. The game could use some more depth, but GameSalad is not the best for isometric games... and I think the environmental effects liven things up a bit. I'm thinking of adding some parallax scrolling for the later levels.)
To say DAZ is insufficient is meaningless to me, because the same could be said about GameSalad. I could make the game look a lot better by using Unity — and depending on the success of this project, a sequel (or remake) might be built with Unity.
I'm not hiding the graphics because I'm embarrassed. I'm hiding BOT because it's a secret. The game will be launched when it's ready. And if Touch Arcade contacted me directly, I would likely make something of a presentation for them. The risk of my work getting ripped off would be offset by the huge publicity of such an article.
Soon, the game should be complete and then people will be able to judge for themselves if the game is as good as I think it is. That's one of the things that makes this project exciting.
mynameisace said: All this bigging up of yourself that you're doing, I really hope this game is good or you will look silly lol
Heh, I suspect there are lots of people waiting for this game to launch, just so they can poke holes in it. I'm not really worried about that. I'm happy with what I'm building. I'm feeling confident that this is a good game.
How do I know that?
There's 1-2 test enemies in each new area. And even though there's no point in killing them, I still enjoy doing it... the explosions, the sounds, the weapons, the artificial intelligence... it's well done.
Wow I just recently read this whole thread, and all I have to say, is thats gonna be one awsome game, I cant wait to play it! I also think that what chunkypixels said has truth, but you should do what YOU think is right.
• Holiday week disrupted production • I finally got back on schedule... adding areas 15 & 16 today • I roughly doubled the art budget. The game is big. It needed it. • I did some additional research on translation.
This morning, not long after waking up, I realized the importance of translating the app description into Japanese. A big robot with a sword and a gun, I think they might love this game.
The game is nearing completion. I'm starting to wonder about Game Center and the other "Spring" features.
Sometimes GameSalad is like a game of Jenga. You try to build upwards, wondering if the entire thing is going to crash down.
BOT broke again!
Basically, the game wouldn't load. This time I'm fairly certain it's because the game is too big. I simply deleted the most recent level images and the game loaded. I could tell there was an issue because even the GameSalad previewer had trouble loading the game.
To solve this problem, I turned the majority of my background actors to instances. This improved the loading times and my game was able to load. I didn't notice a difference in performance before. But now that the project size is over 90 megs, there's seems to be a clear difference.
I redid seven of the areas. The other nine will have to wait until tomorrow morning.
mynameisace said: What are your level loading times like out of curiosity?
On the Mac it's basically instant. But on my iPhone 4, it's like 2-3 seconds. It's not terrible, but it's enough for people to notice and complain.
It makes me angry because it limits what I can add. I almost killed the project because I hate loading times.
It's not my large backgrounds either. I removed them from the scene and it still has a 2-3 loading times. I might have to convert more of my prototypes to instances. Replacing any object that is used only once makes sense.
It's hard to test the app, because it takes like 15 minutes to build and download to the phone. The biggest part of the delay is GameSalad compressing the assets.
Holy crap, 15 minutes build time, I'd commit suicide in that time, I hate waiting lol. I suppose that 90+ megs is a lot of compressing of assets for GSC to do.
I hate the loading times too; I've managed to get my latest game's loading times right down to under a second but took a LOAD of work.
Last night, around 8:30 PM, I started working on converting prototypes to instances. After changing 60+ plus actors, it seems that my loading times actually increased! It was insane!
Here's a recent log...
9:49:30 = Began iPhone Preview 9:55:?? = Freeze
Quit GameSalad Preview / Restart iPhone
10:02:00 = Began iPhone Preview 10:07:23 = Build complete / Loading to iPhone 10:09:15 = Loaded / Game Launched / More Loading 10:09:42 = Game Running
So, that's about eight minutes of just loading.
Now here's what's interesting. The 27 seconds of loading is actually like 3 seconds when not connected to the GameSalad creator - "Recent Games" mode.
However, and this is the sad part, I'm not seeing any difference between Prototypes and Instances. I basically wasted about 5 hours. I'm probably going to revert the game back to the other version.
I'm not sure what caused the original crash. When I restarted my iPhone, the game worked. The GameSalad Viewer seems to be running normally too.
So, this brings up a lot of questions.
1 - What is GameSalad doing when it's compressing assets? 2 - Where does scene loading come from / Why does it take so long? 3 - How can I improve scene loading times? 4 - What if GameSalad didn't compress assets, would the game run faster? 5 - I'm using ImageOptim to compress my images. Should I be using that or is GameSalad compressing PNGs for me?
I think if we had the option to choose larger game size, but faster loading, I would likely pick faster loading. Even if the game ballooned to 400 Megs, who cares? 3-4 seconds per scene change is a game crushing problem. There are 35 scenes in this game where TANK can roam around. That's roughly two minutes of loading, just to explore the whole game.
If 100,000 people play this game, wasting on average 10 minutes per day in loading, and the average life expectancy (world wide) is 35,000,000 minutes, it's the equivalent of killing one person every 35 days.
Comments
Here's a link to the forum thread...
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=86586
I haven't been contacted by Touch Arcade, so I'm waiting until the game is done to release screenshots.
It shouldn't be much longer. I think the game will be ready to go in May. I might have to start pestering the GameSalad team. Where's Game Center?!
———————————————
April 20, 2011 - Progress Report
Super Nova
I've finally got back into a productive mode. Tonight, I'm working on area 14 of 35. Area 13 was complicated. A two levels per day average means I might be done with level design by the end of April.
I have about 11 musical loops in the game too. The game sounds great.
Today I was working on lava. Basically, I have an image that's supposed to rotate. That's all... just rotate. It should be a no-brainer, right?!
Once again, in my obsessive approach to game design, I'm not content to make a movable actor if I don't have to. So, I thought of ways to fix that.
I came up with this formula...
Constrain self.rotation to ( game.Time *4)+%360
Basically, the game rotates based on game time. But then I thought about something... what happens when the game has been running for a really long time? Wouldn't such a design crash?
So, I kept adding some zeros until it broke....
( game.Time *4)+100000000000000000000000000000000%360
That large number is 100 nonillion.
One more zero and the formula would break. Although, I think the sun might go super nova before that many seconds have transpired. The iOS device itself would likely decay before that happens.
But even still, it's bad design. What's a better way to handle this?
I thought about using interpolate, which would work. Also, actor.time is another alternative. If you're in the same scene for a billion years, are you really playing the game? Why should I care if it crashes then?
But then, I think of that Gameboy in Nintendo World. Two decades after being burned in the Iraq war (the first one), the device still works. It's on display in New York City... still running Tetris.
That's a high standard! But if for some reason area 14 is left on display 20 years I think that the lava should still work. Heh, but there are probably lots of other reasons why a GameSalad game would crash before that.
Promo video and screenshots will be released after the game has been submitted to Apple... unless Touch Arcade contacts me and requests a preview interview.
just messing with you dude. No hard feelings.
"No one really cares if you ship a great game a few months late...
but, No one will buy a crappy game that shipped on time... "
You did great with your textbook. Right textbook, right time...
Take your time, make it perfect, test it, test it again, have hundreds of others test it, have a solid & proven marketing plan in place....
Then ship it...
And thats just the beginning...
You are taking all the right steps, Photics.... Keep it up!!!
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/iphone-success---an-insiders-guide-exclusive/
There were three main points...
1 - Design specifically for iOS
Slapping a virtual controller on a game doesn't work. BOT addresses this issue. The control was specifically designed for iOS.
2 - Polish the game
Well, I'm not done yet. However, it's clear that I am putting extra work into this game. It's the largest project in the 12+ year history of Photics.com. It's even bigger than the textbook and my science fiction novel.
3 - Market the game
While I think being featured by Apple is the best form of marketing, it's difficult to get there without some additional marketing. I have the start of a marketing plan. Clearly, I'm already building hype. I'm just not sure how extreme I'm going to go.
Things I'm still considering...
• A launch party
• Paid Search
• Handing out flyers at the NYC Ferry Terminal
It's something to think about while I make the other 21 areas.
Normally, for smaller projects, its not such a big deal... but because your putting a lot of time and effort into this project, you really dont want to leave it until after the game is released to get that feedback.
From a purely graphics perspective, Im a little concerned for you... spending so much time on assets, without getting outside feedback could be a dangerous strategy. As a developer, its too easy to get caught up in your own project, and not see it how general users will.
You can never rely on just your own opinion, or close friends and family for honest critique of the product.
Its great reading the updates... and reading your various states of emotion as the game progresses and you battle through all the peaks and troughs of the development process... but you do worry me that your attempt at hyping the game up whilst being so secretive about how it looks, could backfire...
So for the sake of your game... pick a few developers or games players that arent close to you, but you think you can trust, and show them your project, so you can get some feedback before you put too much more effort in.
I think it could save you some potential heartache later down the road.
Here's why I think the graphics are good...
• Great icons for weapons and items
• Great weapon effects
• Awesome fire effects and exploding enemies
• Nice animation for enemies and TANK
• Highly detailed backgrounds, not just repetitive tiles
• Good environmental effects... clouds, lava
• It's profession because I spent money on a lot of the artwork
Depending how I approach the remaining 21 areas, this game could have the largest art budget from any of my mobile projects. The graphics are not the only thing in this game either.
• At least 12 professional musical loops (two with multiple versions)
• 30+ sound effects so far. (I made them myself!)
• Excellent controls... specifically designed for iOS
• Solid understanding of RPGs... I think the game is fun!
• Math - BOT has some pretty complicated expressions.
The reason I don't show more of the game is simple... I don't want my ideas copied! BOT is that good! I think my approach to this project could change the way GameSalad developers approach their projects.
I was really good at GameSalad before, but this is a whole new level for me. If you want to insult my work, that's up to you. It doesn't change reality though.
The GameSalad Creator lists the Project size at 81.0 Megs! Only 2/5 of the levels are complete. Clearly, a lot of work is going into this project. I realize that people are frustrated waiting. I'm even more frustrated. I've been working so hard on this project that it's starting to feel like a prison. I don't like keeping BOT a secret. I'm looking forward to showing it off. Yet, I've gone too far on this project to give up now.
For those that have been reading what I wrote, the professionalism of this project should be apparent.
Depending how I approach the remaining 21 areas, this game could have the largest art budget from any of my mobile projects."
Using Daz models is certainly one way to go, and I even did that myself on my first ever game.
I learned after a year of making games and not being happy with the results, graphically at least, that using a 'proper' artist is the way to go.
Especially if you want to elevate the look of your game in line with the thousands of professional apps on the app store.
I'll keep this brief, as I don't think anything I actually write will make a blind bit of difference.
Listen to ChunkyPixels.
Read his post again.
Please.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
It's storytelling, also another part of the game. That's why the artwork is professional. I'm choosing it to reenforce game mechanics and game lore.
The artwork is also professional because I'm a professional. It's not just a blind cut & paste from DAZ Studio. I've been working hard with the artwork to create a consistent look. It's tough with top-down. I can see where someone would critique the work. That's not going to change anything though.
I'm happy with the way the game looks. (I do have some issues with the top-down perspective. The game could use some more depth, but GameSalad is not the best for isometric games... and I think the environmental effects liven things up a bit. I'm thinking of adding some parallax scrolling for the later levels.)
To say DAZ is insufficient is meaningless to me, because the same could be said about GameSalad. I could make the game look a lot better by using Unity — and depending on the success of this project, a sequel (or remake) might be built with Unity.
I'm not hiding the graphics because I'm embarrassed. I'm hiding BOT because it's a secret. The game will be launched when it's ready. And if Touch Arcade contacted me directly, I would likely make something of a presentation for them. The risk of my work getting ripped off would be offset by the huge publicity of such an article.
Soon, the game should be complete and then people will be able to judge for themselves if the game is as good as I think it is. That's one of the things that makes this project exciting.
Ace
How do I know that?
There's 1-2 test enemies in each new area. And even though there's no point in killing them, I still enjoy doing it... the explosions, the sounds, the weapons, the artificial intelligence... it's well done.
I also think that what chunkypixels said has truth, but you should do what YOU think is right.
Also: whatever you do; good luck with it!
Here's a quick summary of what's going on...
• Holiday week disrupted production
• I finally got back on schedule... adding areas 15 & 16 today
• I roughly doubled the art budget. The game is big. It needed it.
• I did some additional research on translation.
This morning, not long after waking up, I realized the importance of translating the app description into Japanese. A big robot with a sword and a gun, I think they might love this game.
The game is nearing completion. I'm starting to wonder about Game Center and the other "Spring" features.
Crash!
Sometimes GameSalad is like a game of Jenga. You try to build upwards, wondering if the entire thing is going to crash down.
BOT broke again!
Basically, the game wouldn't load. This time I'm fairly certain it's because the game is too big. I simply deleted the most recent level images and the game loaded. I could tell there was an issue because even the GameSalad previewer had trouble loading the game.
To solve this problem, I turned the majority of my background actors to instances. This improved the loading times and my game was able to load. I didn't notice a difference in performance before. But now that the project size is over 90 megs, there's seems to be a clear difference.
I redid seven of the areas. The other nine will have to wait until tomorrow morning.
I was about to suggest braking it into two parts - ya know, like the Titanic.... (the movie, not the ship, lol)!
Ace
It makes me angry because it limits what I can add. I almost killed the project because I hate loading times.
It's not my large backgrounds either. I removed them from the scene and it still has a 2-3 loading times. I might have to convert more of my prototypes to instances. Replacing any object that is used only once makes sense.
It's hard to test the app, because it takes like 15 minutes to build and download to the phone. The biggest part of the delay is GameSalad compressing the assets.
I hate the loading times too; I've managed to get my latest game's loading times right down to under a second but took a LOAD of work.
You isolated what is crashing it yet?
Ace
Last night, around 8:30 PM, I started working on converting prototypes to instances. After changing 60+ plus actors, it seems that my loading times actually increased! It was insane!
Here's a recent log...
9:49:30 = Began iPhone Preview
9:55:?? = Freeze
Quit GameSalad Preview / Restart iPhone
10:02:00 = Began iPhone Preview
10:07:23 = Build complete / Loading to iPhone
10:09:15 = Loaded / Game Launched / More Loading
10:09:42 = Game Running
So, that's about eight minutes of just loading.
Now here's what's interesting. The 27 seconds of loading is actually like 3 seconds when not connected to the GameSalad creator - "Recent Games" mode.
However, and this is the sad part, I'm not seeing any difference between Prototypes and Instances. I basically wasted about 5 hours. I'm probably going to revert the game back to the other version.
I'm not sure what caused the original crash. When I restarted my iPhone, the game worked. The GameSalad Viewer seems to be running normally too.
So, this brings up a lot of questions.
1 - What is GameSalad doing when it's compressing assets?
2 - Where does scene loading come from / Why does it take so long?
3 - How can I improve scene loading times?
4 - What if GameSalad didn't compress assets, would the game run faster?
5 - I'm using ImageOptim to compress my images. Should I be using that or is GameSalad compressing PNGs for me?
I think if we had the option to choose larger game size, but faster loading, I would likely pick faster loading. Even if the game ballooned to 400 Megs, who cares? 3-4 seconds per scene change is a game crushing problem. There are 35 scenes in this game where TANK can roam around. That's roughly two minutes of loading, just to explore the whole game.
If 100,000 people play this game, wasting on average 10 minutes per day in loading, and the average life expectancy (world wide) is 35,000,000 minutes, it's the equivalent of killing one person every 35 days.
I'm going to send an email to GameSalad support.