@HoneyTribe: That's very true, they did change the algorithm charts, and people have speculated that it's player usage but others have dismissed that idea.
Not only that, but one of the big changes that's been happening, is that the app store is shifting towards the trend of in app purchases. People buying up free apps, and if they play it enough, they'll purchase upgrades, or the full game.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it is what it is.
The only consistent variable you can count on in the app store, and with technology, is change.
JeffreyShimane said: You said it yourself that Bot wasn't made for everyone and was made as an alternative to typical games on the App Store. I'm not sure why you're puzzled by the relative lack of success of Bot when you've intentionally limited your audience and made a niche game. Would your Unofficial GameSalad Textbook sold as well as it has if it was only written in Latin? If you're in the game development business to have fun making games, then whatever your sales are for your games is just gravy. If you're in it as a true business to make money, you need to make products that people want, whether it's in the App Store, Android Market, or the supermarket.
The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook is a niche. It's for GameSalad developers. That's like what... 0.025% of the iTunes App Store market? I consider that project successful. And yeah, maybe people feel more satisfied with the textbook. But I think BOT should have done much better, because it's not targeted at an obscure niche.
Once again with the sports car analogy — it's not intended for people that want mini vans or a luxury car, but sports cars are still popular. I like to work on projects that I like, while thinking if customers will like it too.
That's why I'm frustrated with Apple. I think "Project: Salvage" could be something that people really enjoy. (It was tested and it was liked!) Additionally, this new app might give people a better idea of what's going on with BOT... while also entertaining them. If this project is successful, then maybe both apps will do well.
To say that I didn't learn isn't accurate. I think I've built something pretty cool with "Project: Salvage" and I mad that I can't show it off yet.
My reference to your Unofficial GameSalad Textbook was just an analogy to illustrate how your sales would have been even less if you had decided to release it only in Latin (unless there's a big untapped GS community that only speaks Latin!). To use your sports car analogy, if Bot is a sports car, it was intentionally designed to harken back to the early days of sports cars. No power steering, anti-lock brakes, air bags, fuel injection, etc. Yes, sports cars are popular but would Porsche or Ferrari be able to sell a sports car today without the things people expect out of sports cars? That's a tough sell, even for Porsche and Ferrari, let alone a smaller lesser known sports car brand.
JeffreyShimane said: No power steering, anti-lock brakes, air bags, fuel injection, etc.
Even if that was true... which I don't think it is... there are plenty of classic car enthusiasts around, just as there are plenty of people that like retro games. BOT should have done better. Why? It's because several other apps that I've put far less effort into, and were far less advanced, made more money.
I was looking at the rankings, wondering how a game like "Jumpy Horse" could beat BOT, and the argument could be made that I'm not hitting the right demographic for iOS. Jumpy Horse appears to be a game for girls. BOT is a game for guys.
Would I be more successful if I made girlie games? Possibly... and maybe I will.
Photics said: Even if that was true... which I don't think it is... there are plenty of classic car enthusiasts around, just as there are plenty of people that like retro games. BOT should have done better. Why? It's because several other apps that I've put far less effort into, and were far less advanced, made more money.
Sure, there are plenty of classic car enthusiasts around. But the number of them that like classic sports cars is a smaller subset of them. There are plenty of classic sports car enthusiasts around but not as many as there are sports car enthusiasts. By limiting your audience, you are limiting the potential success and appeal of your game. As to your other games, perhaps they were in genres that had a bigger audience (puzzle games, etc.) or were released when there were a lot fewer apps on the App Store (you said this was the end of your second year of releasing App Store games so this might be possible).
I was looking at the rankings, wondering how a game like "Jumpy Horse" could beat BOT, and the argument could be made that I'm not hitting the right demographic for iOS. Jumpy Horse appears to be a game for girls. BOT is a game for guys.
Would I be more successful if I made girlie games? Possibly... and maybe I will.
This is exactly what I'm saying. According this this link, http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390354,00.asp, 53% of mobile gamers are female. Making games for guys (who, in terms of games tailored to their tastes, are typically overly represented) has a more limited audience than making games for girls, just like making adventure games for hardcore gamers has a more limited audience than just making adventure games.
You can't compare BOT with Jumpy horse, 2 completely different demographics.
BOT is a game for guys, but let's just say hypothetically, it targets men between the ages of 32-40 (A small age bracket because it targets guys that played SNES and Genesis back in the day), and maybe of the men between the ages of 32-45, 40% own an iPhone, 50% own Android devices, and the other 10% own miscellaneous devices.
And of the 40% that own an iPhone, what percentage of those men that played retro games in the past, are interested in the RPG genre? Maybe they're more of a sonic or mario guy, or maybe an action guy, and like other retro stuff? What percentage have time to invest in BOT and play the game?
What percentage already own an RPG like FF tactics, or Zenonia, are already engrossed in another game?
Then what other games, specifically targeted at that demographic released the same time as yours? Maybe another RPG with branding? Maybe another retro game that suited the above demographic's needs?
What other RPG's are in the top Rankings that offer more than BOT does in terms of graphics, gameplay, ease of use?
What percentage of RPG's are successful in the app store that lack branding like Square-Enix?
When you look at the top rankings, you see Square Enix, Maple Story, and Minecraft, those of which have branding on their side.
Also, the only RPG I see in the top 100 overall iOS games is FF tactics, and that will be short lived. (Secret of Mana, a very well known, and gorgeous action RPG isn't even in the top 200 overall games)
What other games are more visually appealing than BOT?
This is just a tip of the ice berg, and this is what I'm talking about with the app store.
You've created an RPG that touches on a very niche genre, that was released with less than useable controls, and no instructions in the game.
I'm not sure if you had perfected the controls, could that have made BOT more popular.
You have to consider the demographic of the App store, and whom you're targeting, and what you're competing with.
Just because you made a great game, which I can say, BOT is a really well polished up game, doesn't mean it's guaranteed in any way to do well.
You have to look at all the variables, and the ones above, I barely even touched upon.
JeffreyShimane said: Making games for guys (who, in terms of games tailored to their tastes, are typically overly represented) has a more limited audience than making games for girls, just like making adventure games for hardcore gamers has a more limited audience than just making adventure games.
I was thinking of making a farming game, but GameSalad would need three features to really make it work...
• Arrays (but I could work around this limitation) • System Time (Otherwise, the flowers wouldn't grow when the app isn't running.) • Web communication (Send and receive attribute data. I could use PHP / MySQL to make it an online game.)
Since that's not available, maybe I should go back to my platformer. Yet, I think of games like Running Wild... what was wrong with that game? Aside from the voice acting from being hard to hear/understand, and maybe the character not being very identifiable, it was a pretty solid platformer. Right now I'm not so sure that I want to put another six months into a game, only to watch it fail. A platformer is an advanced project.
You can't compare BOT with Jumpy horse, 2 completely different demographics.
BOT is a game for guys, but let's just say hypothetically, it targets men between the ages of 32-40 (A small age bracket because it targets guys that played SNES and Genesis back in the day), and maybe of the men between the ages of 32-45, 40% own an iPhone, 50% own Android devices, and the other 10% own miscellaneous devices.
The reason why I mention Jumpy Horse is because it was listed in the same category. It is a different game with a different demographic. But when I see games like Hurdle Turtle and Jumpy Horse doing fairly well, it makes me rethink my approach. Demographics are a big part of success on the iTunes App Store.
I don't think that BOT is limited to the ages of 32-40. It's a giant robot that shoots at other giant robots. That's a pretty basic theme. The Transformers movies — an awful remake of the classic series — actually did well. I hate the new movies so much, I didn't even bother to see part 2 or 3. That didn't stop the new one from making a billion dollars.
It looks like Apple is going to make me wait the full week. I'm trying to stay optimistic by working on a new project, but I'm still very angry with Apple.
Every morning, while checking my iTunes Connect sales reports, I'll have to push back the date on this app. It's currently set to 8/9/2011. Tomorrow I'll set it to 8/10/2011 and then 8/11/2011. With Apple, I don't know when this little game will end. Thursday seems to be a popular launch date with this community, so maybe the delay isn't so bad.
Although, there does seem to be interest in "Project: Salvage". After looking at Photics.com web traffic reports... I noticed that "Salvage" is one of the new words in the organic search listings. Apparently, there is curiosity out there.
I also had an interesting conversation about the app over the weekend. Why did I have to make the girl so sexy? Is it really that important? Would it have been better to tone down the adult themes and cover up those breasts? That's a tough question. I'm not sure if anyone in this community has done anything like this project. (I'm not aware of any 17+ GameSalad projects.) Also, I know that Apple is apprehensive about such content. Yet, I think the sexual content is important to the project. It gives depth to the characters and makes them more interesting.
The old saying is, "Sex sells". Yet, that's not the main reason why "Project: Salvage" turned out the way that it did. While working on the project, I worked with the content that I had available and I created something that felt natural. I wasn't thinking about the project's rating until the work was well underway.
This really is a challenging profession. There are so many things to consider... way beyond the technical.
On the brightside, I learned the slang term for what Apple doesn't seem to like with my app... neathage... like cleavage.
Ha, my app just got approved. Was Apple listening in? Is there a direct link between GameSalad and Apple? I'm thinking it's just a coincidence. Although, I read a good quote about that yesterday. While walking past a church over the weekend, I saw a sign stated, "Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous."
So, tomorrow the app should be available. Heh, I'm wondering if Apple is going to screw up my app listing again. Regardless, I'm simply not touching the date. I'm not happy about a Tuesday launch, but I'm not going to mess with iTunes Connect to change it.
Lol, I didn't know BOT had been released yet. Everyone said from day one that you were too close and too unobjectional to the project. You were talking about it like the first love of your life. Turns out though, it was only you who fancied her and if you would have been more open about it and get people's opinions who were not directly involved, you'd have given her a make over like in those movies where the geeky, frumpy chick takes off her glasses and puts her hair down and becomes a super model-like woman. Next time just don't try and make out you're this huge game company who everyone cares about the mystique, just make a good game with beta testers who can point you in the right direction. You made a game for you with BOT, that you wanted with elements you wanted, not for other people. Therefore your niche Market was limited to yourself and your long lost Photics twins.
I'm not having a go, I'm just saying that the reason I think it failed is that you were too single minded with it and turned out with a frumpy, geeky girlfriend.
Comments
Not only that, but one of the big changes that's been happening, is that the app store is shifting towards the trend of in app purchases. People buying up free apps, and if they play it enough, they'll purchase upgrades, or the full game.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it is what it is.
The only consistent variable you can count on in the app store, and with technology, is change.
Once again with the sports car analogy — it's not intended for people that want mini vans or a luxury car, but sports cars are still popular. I like to work on projects that I like, while thinking if customers will like it too.
That's why I'm frustrated with Apple. I think "Project: Salvage" could be something that people really enjoy. (It was tested and it was liked!) Additionally, this new app might give people a better idea of what's going on with BOT... while also entertaining them. If this project is successful, then maybe both apps will do well.
To say that I didn't learn isn't accurate. I think I've built something pretty cool with "Project: Salvage" and I mad that I can't show it off yet.
- Jeff
I was looking at the rankings, wondering how a game like "Jumpy Horse" could beat BOT, and the argument could be made that I'm not hitting the right demographic for iOS. Jumpy Horse appears to be a game for girls. BOT is a game for guys.
Would I be more successful if I made girlie games? Possibly... and maybe I will.
- Jeff
You can't compare BOT with Jumpy horse, 2 completely different demographics.
BOT is a game for guys, but let's just say hypothetically, it targets men between the ages of 32-40 (A small age bracket because it targets guys that played SNES and Genesis back in the day), and maybe of the men between the ages of 32-45, 40% own an iPhone, 50% own Android devices, and the other 10% own miscellaneous devices.
And of the 40% that own an iPhone, what percentage of those men that played retro games in the past, are interested in the RPG genre? Maybe they're more of a sonic or mario guy, or maybe an action guy, and like other retro stuff? What percentage have time to invest in BOT and play the game?
What percentage already own an RPG like FF tactics, or Zenonia, are already engrossed in another game?
Then what other games, specifically targeted at that demographic released the same time as yours? Maybe another RPG with branding? Maybe another retro game that suited the above demographic's needs?
What other RPG's are in the top Rankings that offer more than BOT does in terms of graphics, gameplay, ease of use?
What percentage of RPG's are successful in the app store that lack branding like Square-Enix?
When you look at the top rankings, you see Square Enix, Maple Story, and Minecraft, those of which have branding on their side.
Also, the only RPG I see in the top 100 overall iOS games is FF tactics, and that will be short lived. (Secret of Mana, a very well known, and gorgeous action RPG isn't even in the top 200 overall games)
What other games are more visually appealing than BOT?
This is just a tip of the ice berg, and this is what I'm talking about with the app store.
You've created an RPG that touches on a very niche genre, that was released with less than useable controls, and no instructions in the game.
I'm not sure if you had perfected the controls, could that have made BOT more popular.
You have to consider the demographic of the App store, and whom you're targeting, and what you're competing with.
Just because you made a great game, which I can say, BOT is a really well polished up game, doesn't mean it's guaranteed in any way to do well.
You have to look at all the variables, and the ones above, I barely even touched upon.
• Arrays (but I could work around this limitation)
• System Time (Otherwise, the flowers wouldn't grow when the app isn't running.)
• Web communication (Send and receive attribute data. I could use PHP / MySQL to make it an online game.)
Since that's not available, maybe I should go back to my platformer. Yet, I think of games like Running Wild... what was wrong with that game? Aside from the voice acting from being hard to hear/understand, and maybe the character not being very identifiable, it was a pretty solid platformer. Right now I'm not so sure that I want to put another six months into a game, only to watch it fail. A platformer is an advanced project. The reason why I mention Jumpy Horse is because it was listed in the same category. It is a different game with a different demographic. But when I see games like Hurdle Turtle and Jumpy Horse doing fairly well, it makes me rethink my approach. Demographics are a big part of success on the iTunes App Store.
I don't think that BOT is limited to the ages of 32-40. It's a giant robot that shoots at other giant robots. That's a pretty basic theme. The Transformers movies — an awful remake of the classic series — actually did well. I hate the new movies so much, I didn't even bother to see part 2 or 3. That didn't stop the new one from making a billion dollars.
Yeah, maybe BOT would do better on Android. According to the roadmap... http://gamesalad.com/corporate/roadmap/ ...I can find out in the Fall.
Still Angry!
It looks like Apple is going to make me wait the full week. I'm trying to stay optimistic by working on a new project, but I'm still very angry with Apple.
Every morning, while checking my iTunes Connect sales reports, I'll have to push back the date on this app. It's currently set to 8/9/2011. Tomorrow I'll set it to 8/10/2011 and then 8/11/2011. With Apple, I don't know when this little game will end. Thursday seems to be a popular launch date with this community, so maybe the delay isn't so bad.
Although, there does seem to be interest in "Project: Salvage". After looking at Photics.com web traffic reports... I noticed that "Salvage" is one of the new words in the organic search listings. Apparently, there is curiosity out there.
I also had an interesting conversation about the app over the weekend. Why did I have to make the girl so sexy? Is it really that important? Would it have been better to tone down the adult themes and cover up those breasts? That's a tough question. I'm not sure if anyone in this community has done anything like this project. (I'm not aware of any 17+ GameSalad projects.) Also, I know that Apple is apprehensive about such content. Yet, I think the sexual content is important to the project. It gives depth to the characters and makes them more interesting.
The old saying is, "Sex sells". Yet, that's not the main reason why "Project: Salvage" turned out the way that it did. While working on the project, I worked with the content that I had available and I created something that felt natural. I wasn't thinking about the project's rating until the work was well underway.
This really is a challenging profession. There are so many things to consider... way beyond the technical.
On the brightside, I learned the slang term for what Apple doesn't seem to like with my app... neathage... like cleavage.
The walls have ears!
Ha, my app just got approved. Was Apple listening in? Is there a direct link between GameSalad and Apple? I'm thinking it's just a coincidence. Although, I read a good quote about that yesterday. While walking past a church over the weekend, I saw a sign stated, "Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous."
So, tomorrow the app should be available. Heh, I'm wondering if Apple is going to screw up my app listing again. Regardless, I'm simply not touching the date. I'm not happy about a Tuesday launch, but I'm not going to mess with iTunes Connect to change it.
I'm not having a go, I'm just saying that the reason I think it failed is that you were too single minded with it and turned out with a frumpy, geeky girlfriend.
Ace
Good Morning!
Apple got it right. Project: Salvage is online and it's listed properly!
I'm going to announce it in a new thread, as I think it might be missed in this huge thread.