utopiangames said: You will soon find out i didn't set out to copy TSB's template we were asked to do it...all will become very clear soon and you will eat your words.
Jealously is a funny thing m8 get over it or at least admit you have a grudge.
Darren.
OK FIRST, I don't even make templates, so why would I be jealous. SECOND I wasn't even talking to YOU. It was someone else. And I was POINTING OUT that you had done the same thing. I never said with intention. OK OK OK. GOD I mean seriously, this is getting annoying. You adults need to GROW UP. Its a FREAKING VOLUME TEMPLATE for gods sake. Just move on. this is to everyone. DL
As far as the !@#$% last night which i'm sure your referring to my being pissed. Its that we have a Sous-Chef (you) who has found a way to profit off the community ...
I see a lot more of Utopian helping the community than profiting. You're way off base.
PossesiveGaming said: I'd be pretty angry myself if I were in Darren's position, this is his full time job (developer) and he NEEDS to make money. There is nothing legally wrong but morally it's debatable.
How is this morally debatable?
I've bought several tools/templates from Darren, and plan on buying more - he produces great material. If I hadn't already purchased Darren's Music and SFX template, tenrdrmer's template wouldn't stop me from buying it, cause Darren's has some additional features that are real slick.
Darren is making a rockin' angry birds template that looks just like the real thing. Is that immoral and ripping off the creators of Angry Birds? Lots of people complimented him in the forums when he offered a preview of it, and plenty are anxious to buy it - myself included.
As long as people don't steal code, if they use code that is offered up for free or create their own code that replicates what they've seen, how is it immoral?
For those who aren't able to buy as many tools and templates as they'd like to, having free templates is going to help them produce more polished games; it may even help them learn how to code better themselves. There's plenty of comments in the forums about how there needs to be more polished games made with GS, so it seems like honest free templates should be a positive.
tenrdrmer said he got the idea of the blocks lighting up from Darren's video. +1 for giving credit. How many of us own something who's idea wasn't completely original, and have no problem with that? How many of us have made a game that was similar to something made in the past? People are inspired by the ideas around them all the time.
Did anyone here come up with the idea for cover flow? Did people get that idea from Apple? Did Apple get the idea from someone else? Yet there are paid and free templates for cover flow that nobody objects to. Even for the multiple paid templates, was there this kind of reaction when the second paid template went up for sale? Or the free template after the paid templates. I think not, and I spend an unhealthy amount of time reading these forums.
Remember when the free cover flow template was provided to the community, even though at least two other well-known members of this forum were already offering paid cover flow templates. The similar functionality between the free and paid cover flow templates is a lot closer than just some blinking lines, yet nobody got all up in arms over the free template. There were demos of how to make a cover flow template before free or paid versions were available. Despite the instructional material or the free template, I've gathered that the paid versions are still selling quite well regardless.
I defend the right of everyone to protect their intellectual property. I don't want to agitate with my opinion Darren or tenrdrmer or DreamLabs or anyone else who has posted their thoughts in this forum. I respect so many of you, and the work that you do. In this case, I just don't see how a wrong was committed, and I don't understand why tenrdrmer is being blasted on (for all the reasons I've stated above).
If you'll still take my money, I'll continue to buy from all of the talented developers here when there's an offering I like, need, and can afford, and I thank those of you who also share your talents freely.
I haven't purchased any templates from Darren, not that I don't think they're worth the money, since Darren is one of the best GS coders around but because I code things myself but I think Darren's templates are a great learning resource, even if your games are not strictly like the templates.
Everyone else jumped on board and made badly coded templates (not everyone) and charged for them even though some of them shouldn't even be free.
Darren and Wayne are pushing GS to new extremes. Worth every penny of their hard work and knowledge.
Copying templates isn't cool but people can see that Darren's template is superior and for a fiver you can't go wrong.
utopiangames said: You will soon find out i didn't set out to copy TSB's template we were asked to do it...all will become very clear soon and you will eat your words.
TSB and Utopian were both asked for an angry birds template.
Im not going to quote that because its too long. but well said. And I laughed when you said an "unhealthy amount of time on the forum" haha. looking forward to helping/working with you. lol. thanks DL
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
footloose said: I see a lot more of Utopian helping the community than profiting. You're way off base.
He's public stated he's sold over 100 copies of the platformer template. Thats over $5,000 on one template. I don't think thats off base. Besides As i've said before I don't care about that. I want the community to get back to good free stuff being available to everyone. If you want more specialized or fancy features you will have to pay whoever's making them but as it stands the free demo's have all but dried between a combination of templates for sale and the download function being broke. I want to see that come back this is a barely modified from FMG's original demo. The slider was doubled and one made to control the soundFX volume Then I added some color changing squares to flash it up a bit. I didn't realize Darren had rights to color changes but hey you learn something new everyday.
This is has gotten ridiculous and everyone needs to take a step back and look at the big picture.
I just want to say,I have emailed darren and apologized for bringing up the angry birds thing. It wasn't even towards him. It was towards someone else as a point that tsb didn't flip out when he found out that darren made the angry birds thing.
and yes, that is true. If we keep pissing these guys off, they might stop making templates. DL
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
I'm glad you mentioned the coverflow. Because at the time I thought oh man this is really gonna piss him off. You had talked about several time how much time you had spent on that. Yet you did not blow up and threaten to destroy any attempts at anything AppChoggie makes and try's to sell.
There's one big difference in my eyes with this situation. I literally spent an hour or less putting this together from FMG's demo that was already made. I think DreamLab actually had more time in his art than I did the code. So why shouldn't this be offered free. I get why darren's mad but honestly its not even a big deal the two templates don't compare this gives people like me who cant afford anyone templates a way to still have a nice feature in there game. And to come out and accuse me of ripping off his template is just crap. its inappropriate and uncalled for.
This thing is barely equivalent to one part of darrens template his is superior to this one and definitely has more features and options.
And you especially should know I wouldn't steal someones work. since I felt Crazy.Cupid was a little to close to Zombie Drop and asked your opinion of the game before I continued development.
Comments
Jealously is a funny thing m8 get over it or at least admit you have a grudge.
Darren.
DL
I've bought several tools/templates from Darren, and plan on buying more - he produces great material. If I hadn't already purchased Darren's Music and SFX template, tenrdrmer's template wouldn't stop me from buying it, cause Darren's has some additional features that are real slick.
Darren is making a rockin' angry birds template that looks just like the real thing. Is that immoral and ripping off the creators of Angry Birds? Lots of people complimented him in the forums when he offered a preview of it, and plenty are anxious to buy it - myself included.
As long as people don't steal code, if they use code that is offered up for free or create their own code that replicates what they've seen, how is it immoral?
For those who aren't able to buy as many tools and templates as they'd like to, having free templates is going to help them produce more polished games; it may even help them learn how to code better themselves. There's plenty of comments in the forums about how there needs to be more polished games made with GS, so it seems like honest free templates should be a positive.
tenrdrmer said he got the idea of the blocks lighting up from Darren's video. +1 for giving credit. How many of us own something who's idea wasn't completely original, and have no problem with that? How many of us have made a game that was similar to something made in the past? People are inspired by the ideas around them all the time.
Did anyone here come up with the idea for cover flow? Did people get that idea from Apple? Did Apple get the idea from someone else? Yet there are paid and free templates for cover flow that nobody objects to. Even for the multiple paid templates, was there this kind of reaction when the second paid template went up for sale? Or the free template after the paid templates. I think not, and I spend an unhealthy amount of time reading these forums.
Remember when the free cover flow template was provided to the community, even though at least two other well-known members of this forum were already offering paid cover flow templates. The similar functionality between the free and paid cover flow templates is a lot closer than just some blinking lines, yet nobody got all up in arms over the free template. There were demos of how to make a cover flow template before free or paid versions were available. Despite the instructional material or the free template, I've gathered that the paid versions are still selling quite well regardless.
I defend the right of everyone to protect their intellectual property. I don't want to agitate with my opinion Darren or tenrdrmer or DreamLabs or anyone else who has posted their thoughts in this forum. I respect so many of you, and the work that you do. In this case, I just don't see how a wrong was committed, and I don't understand why tenrdrmer is being blasted on (for all the reasons I've stated above).
If you'll still take my money, I'll continue to buy from all of the talented developers here when there's an offering I like, need, and can afford, and I thank those of you who also share your talents freely.
Everyone else jumped on board and made badly coded templates (not everyone) and charged for them even though some of them shouldn't even be free.
Darren and Wayne are pushing GS to new extremes. Worth every penny of their hard work and knowledge.
Copying templates isn't cool but people can see that Darren's template is superior and for a fiver you can't go wrong.
Ace
DL
Then I added some color changing squares to flash it up a bit. I didn't realize Darren had rights to color changes but hey you learn something new everyday.
This is has gotten ridiculous and everyone needs to take a step back and look at the big picture.
and all he said was he got the light idea from darren, and hes still saying thats copying him. He is by far not the first to do that in a slider.
adios
maybe even work a free template around it for a puzzle game, could call it 'lumps' perhaps.
and yes, that is true. If we keep pissing these guys off, they might stop making templates.
DL
I'm glad you mentioned the coverflow. Because at the time I thought oh man this is really gonna piss him off. You had talked about several time how much time you had spent on that. Yet you did not blow up and threaten to destroy any attempts at anything AppChoggie makes and try's to sell.
There's one big difference in my eyes with this situation. I literally spent an hour or less putting this together from FMG's demo that was already made. I think DreamLab actually had more time in his art than I did the code. So why shouldn't this be offered free. I get why darren's mad but honestly its not even a big deal the two templates don't compare this gives people like me who cant afford anyone templates a way to still have a nice feature in there game. And to come out and accuse me of ripping off his template is just crap. its inappropriate and uncalled for.
This thing is barely equivalent to one part of darrens template his is superior to this one and definitely has more features and options.
And you especially should know I wouldn't steal someones work. since I felt Crazy.Cupid was a little to close to Zombie Drop and asked your opinion of the game before I continued development.