Ideas for Template abusers

greenrhyno

I'm new here and am very excited about GameSalad. I especially like the ability to easily work with others on improving projects, templates, logic etc. I also REALLY like the various templates that members have produced and have so many ideas to modify them into my own style of games.

It kind of bothers me that there are people who would buy a template and release it practically unchanged. I bought one the other day, and I figured out some ways to improve it, which is great for those who will take it and create their own thing, but not great if there are those who will take it and CLAIM it and SELL it as their own.

I have some ideas to try and combat this:

Anyone who takes a template and releases it as is (or with just a few scene additions with their logo etc.)

A: won't get anymore updates from the template creator

B: will get bombarded with bad reviews - it will be pretty negligible to their sales if 10-20 of us buy the game and leave 1 star reviews.

C: We should start a thread (or just list in this thread) the usernames, email addresses, dev accounts etc. of template abusers so that those who create the templates can know who not to sell (or even respond to)

I think this will greatly help to maintain a spirit of sharing and MUTUAL benefit.

I am new here, so I am sure there are others with a lot more experience and insight into this subject who can add their thoughts/ideas.

simo103

@greenrhyno ... I totally get why your posting this and understand the frustration. I think however it is the sellers' job to set the terms of purchase which they appear to be doing. If you or I purchase a template we are going to use it as a base for a game which likely will have added levels, different images and additional gameplay so it will likely be some time after the rush to publish person hits the market with the template as is and when it does it will be different enough to likely not be effected by the original.

At least the templates sold are of a general high quality so its not like the junk that is being rushed to the Appstore by some members. Personally I think our efforts should be aimed at helping each other make better games and have better promotion and visibility, rather than going negative on someone. (Copyright theft is another matter however but buying a template that is being sold to be used as the buyer wants is not wrong).

tenrdrmer

Yeah it definitely is unfortunate to see but honestly the only people it really hurts are the others who bought with the intent of doing the same, so serves them right. And of course the individuals reputation as a developer.

johnzzl

honestly lets think logically about this.

If the people who sell the template do not care enough to watermark their stuff then why should the person buying it care enough whether to change something in the game of just releasing it.

Simple solution. the source is the blame technically. Protect your templates if you care, but why would they care when they just got paid for it. So if the authors dont care then who are others to care.

don't get me wrong, it is annoying seeing 20 identical versions of the same games on the app store but thats the way life is. everyone is out for themselves. end of.

greenrhyno

I think this is a healthy discussion- as I plan on purchasing a few of the templates out there in the coming weeks.

@simo103

Good post and good perspective. I think templates as a starting point is the key- not a template as the finishing point...

I don't see how going negative on someone is in contradiction to helping each other make better games. If I know a template developer doesn't sell templates to auto-posters it would be much easier for me to purchase the template and to contribute back any improvements I discover. I would hope the other purchasers are also contributing back and in that way everyone ends up with a better finished product.

But ultimately yeah, the app store is so big that someone buying a template and posting it as is really isn't going to affect anyone else in the store/sales.

I think it can affect people here though- just in how they contribute back their ideas- see below.

@tenrdrmer

Does it also affect the community when some people buy a template then give ideas to improve it in an update knowing there are those who will add nothing to the functionality of the template and only publish it as is?

If I am going to help improve a template, I would want to know I'm helping others who are doing derivative works, not helping build a finished product for someone who is not creative enough or just too lazy to make it their own.

That is why I think that if someone is just buying templates to post them as apps- and template developers know that, they could choose not to sell to those people or send them updates.

Of course that is up to the individual template developer.

quantumsheep

You may be surprised to hear that I have some strong views on this!

Jonnzzl has pretty much nailed it there.

I know the template makers are in it for the money. Of course they are, otherwise every template would be free, right?

They're trying to help people out as well. Which is nice.

And a lot of the template makers are respected members of this community. The last thing they want is to help tarnish that community, surely?

The stark reality though is that people can't be trusted to do what you 'hope' they will. Namely, learn, modify, add original graphics, make their own game.

It's just not happening.

If you sell a template complete with finished graphics, people *will* take advantage, auto-publish, and will tarnish the community even further. You are hurting the community you're trying to help!

I know having 'proper' graphics is a selling point. But it shouldn't be. These are templates, not complete games.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE reconsider and put placeholder graphics into your templates. Or at least watermark them!

You know it's the right thing to do.

Cheers,

QS :{

dazzleme

Was it just me, or did anyone else trip over the dead horse that is this topic?

+1 to the comments by simo103, tenrdrmer, johnzzl, and quantumsheep.

With that said, it seems like this thread shouldn't be in the marketplace, it's not for sale and can't be ripped off.

rlehm

I could care less what anyone else does because it doesn't effect me. I'm not jealous. A template with changed art is making no one rich.

tenrdrmer

dazzleme said:

With that said, it seems like this thread shouldn't be in the marketplace, it's not for sale and can't be ripped off.

LOL.

greenrhyno

dazzleme said:

With that said, it seems like this thread shouldn't be in the marketplace, it's not for sale and can't be ripped off.

This thread is now for sale - $20 for the first 20 customers, then the price goes up to $50. Hurry and you can be the first to submit it to the app store!

TeamLava8

Hello there everybody. I agree, and I wasnt fully aware of the situation with people just uploading purchased templates as standalone apps. I get really excited about an idea or an app I can reproduce with gamesalad. It pumps me up. I assumed the same excitement was shared universally by people using gamesalad. I think there is nothing more rewarding than creating something that others enjoy. It bums me out that people honestly think uploading a template will be enough to make them money. I just think ultimately the good finished pieces will float to the top.

I apologize and will use a little more common sense when it comes to templates. Thank you greenrhyno for your suggestions btw. They will be helpful for one of my games I am working on.

Overall I am extremely pumped about gamesalad, and as far as the templates go, I would be just giving them away for free if I didn't have a baby on the way in a few months. I do have some goodies to give away in the future though, Im a designer by trade.

and I have a pretty accurate gamesalad version of lanesplitter I will be putting up here in a few days.

So thank you greenrhyno and thank you everyone else for the insight. I'm pretty new to this.

Jason

Xpandemic

We should just contact Apple and tell them to make the review process stricter

quantumsheep

I think it more likely that those making templates would hear us better than Apple!

ozboybrian

I've been working on one of Deep Blues Templates for some time now and I will release a video when it's published to the App store.
And NO I don't think people should just publish Template as is. Someone else made that 100%... if you want someone to make you a game give them an hourly rate.

Thanks for inspiring me to make a good game out of a template to whom ever posted so may dodgy games. This one is coming along excellently!

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jonmulcahy

Since most of these templates include the artwork, there is really nothing legally wrong with what people are doing, but i do believe that it hurts sales of the templates. I know I won't buy a template if artwork is included, I don't want to buy something only to have someone rush out a product using the same artwork.

But, like I said, if artwork is included, there is really nothing to be upset about, it's between the seller and buyer.

micksolo

the great thing about the app store is that the marketplace decides what is successful and what is not. If there are 50 clones of the same game, chances are they will not sell well. The cream rises to the top as they say, instead of focussing on other people releasing rubbish to make a few bucks, spend that time focussing on making your game as good as it could be

greenrhyno

Tomsitems / Slimline games has released jayleedesigns Float template virtually unchanged except for putting in his own company name. No levels, no improvements etc.

I agree that that may be his prerogative, but I don't think template creators should send him template updates, because I for one would like to feel comfortable exchanging improvement ideas with the template creators without them being launched as is. I also don't think the people who create templates make them with the desire that they get launched as is, even though they do want sales of the templates and to make money.

A template released as a game is not going to help the image of GS on the app store.

CaptFinn

Im new here as well. I have bought a few templates. Not for the purpose of swapping art and publishing. I bought the templates to learn the coding. Play with the math and the physics. To compare how one person coded something this way and someone else a different way. But still created the same results. Seeing what is possible only makes my imagination grow.

The more I know and understand... the more tools I have for my creations.

hoodwinkedfool

I mentioned in one of the template threads that I was interested in purchasing one. Later that night I got contacted by another Gamesalad member (wont say who) if I could give it to them for free. I told them that I hadn't purchased it yet, but even if I had I wouldn't feel right buying 'em. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before these templates start showing up on torrent sites and getting distributed.

pnvgordinho

I think that been able to buy a template, learn from it, change it and selling it, its a good thing. If you think about it, you are doing the same thing when you watch tutorials on youtube. When watching a tutorial you are going to try to replicate the exact thing and probably you are going to use the things you learned in your games. If I find a template for sale that does something that I want to do but I cant manage to make it work, I will buy it. People say that some times its unethical, well, thats up to the people that make the templates. If they don't put some terms on how buyers can use the templates, the person who buys it can do whatever he wants with it, regardless if we think its unethical or not.

entersimon

The bigger idea behind making games for the iPhone and iPad is to impress your idea onto the world. I find it strange that anyone here cares so much about templates being rushed to the app store. If you are doing work that is exceptional, then the people who are doing it the "easy way" won't affect your sales. How many stacking games are there? More and more everyday, yet when a good one comes around it can do well. The majority of people who use idevices don't have any interest in developing games or any interest in how they are developed. They just want to play something fun. This community is not your target audience. This community is filled with people like you, but they are not your target audience. Just keep your eyes forward and hit the gas.

If anything, it's a testament to the quality of work inside the templates to just be able to submit them right away to Apple. They are solid foundations for a game to be built upon. Don't let some loser who's trying desperately to make a quick buck slow down your brick laying. Really, he doesn't live in your neighborhood, you just happened to buy the bricks from the same store.

I vote for less attention from the community on the minority of people who rush templates to the store, and put more attention on making great games and continuing to have this forum be a helpful environment for anyone with the desire to learn.

Eyes forward and hit the gas.

quantumsheep

entersimon said:
Eyes forward and hit the gas.

Great. Now I have a an elderly woman suing me for hitting her with my car.

Cheers.

In my defence, I had to swerve several times before I hit her...

QS

entersimon

quantumsheep said:
Great. Now I have a an elderly woman suing me for hitting her with my car.

Cheers.

In my defence, I had to swerve several times before I hit her...

QS

Gah! You should have used interpolate. No collisions!

ApplaudApps

Without wanting to cause offense to anyone I think, on the whole (but not always), templates generate low-quality looking, generic games that will start to flood the App Stores as GameSalad becomes even more popular.

Learning what GS does and how to use it can generate amazing, unique ideas and original games. Do we really need 100 games that play exactly the same but just look a bit different, and not great-looking at that? And then those users wonder why they don't get any sales.

I was asked recently to sell a game of mine as a template. I didn't but I can understand why some do it. GameSalad allows the market place and Apple currently approves crappy looking/playing games. Things might change.

It does make me laugh to see, without mentioning names, some who sell templates readily on here also posting helpful posts about taking time to learn GameSalad and perfecting games before releasing them - the two don't seem to go together from what I've observed being churned out!

Just my two cents....

Metronome49

Why is anyone spending time making pretty graphics in these templates when they shouldn't be used. Just use blocks or something. At lease force them to have to make some graphics, which will probably weed out the people rushing the templates to the store.

The mechanics for a good game can be worked out without artwork, right?

SlickZero

Metronome49 said:
The mechanics for a good game can be worked out without artwork, right?

Absolutely.

I don't like seeing template games rehashed over and over again, but it's a free market, and selling of templates is an acceptable practice. If people are making money by doing it, then they will keep doing it, and nobody can blame someone for that. I'm not a template maker, but If I could make money by selling them, I would, but I'm not good enough yet to make a clean smooth running template, so I don't. And at first glance it's aggravating to see one of Depp Blues templates on the app store just as they made it, but they sell you the art along with the template and tell you it's okay to use it, so nothing is being done that is unethical, really. I wouldn't do it, but the people that do aren't doing anything wrong. They just want to make a quick buck.

Asymptoteell

I think an idea for template abusers is to tell them to sign up for templaholics tanonymous or to have an intempvention.

In all seriousness, though, I'd suggest making a template with unfinished graphics, then making graphics to show in a video to show what a game made with this template COULD look like.

Asymptoteell